Garricks metres gained

[StuBoot]

Have a think about who is inside Siro and Suli and supposed to be running that right side attack. His lack of form is reflecting on all those outside him. His default "I have no idea what to do here" play is to turn Siro under him back into traffic. I'd like to see Suli get some earlier ball too.

Surely you don’t think DCE just does that because he feels like it...umpteen times a game.
I’d say he’s following instructions.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Outside backs need genuine speed.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Not overly concerned whst ****s you to be honest. Do you watch the modern game? Have a look at the prototype wingers everywhere. You think they are either big and slow.or powderpuffs and fast?
Big does not means slow anymore.The exact opposite in fact .And plenty aren’t on big money and virtually every club has them.. Even the smaller ones like Katoa , Nofauluma and Mansour are pocket dynamos who eat tough yards and are rarely if ever rag dolled.

We score zero tries from kicks and concede plenty . If you are happy with that failing on both sides of the field PLUS weak kick returns from the right side winger AND the fullback and throw in a decent but solely defensive left centre who also gets belted - then that’s fine. Sounds like an absolutely perfect recipe for a tough hard semi fought out via field position and a try from a kick as they usually are.

I’m happy with Jorge on one side getting tough yards and missing a kick or two but just not good enough with Garrick on the other side as a combo if you want to be there at the pointy end. And thats the end game ... winning a comp ... not “ doing a job”. Food for thought . The top sides score 25 to 30 percent of tries from kicks, mainly due to powerful athletic outside backs.

When you have Parker and Garrick on hardly any cash , and Jorge average money , good cap management says you should be able to afford at least one class athletic metre eating winger maybe, especially when you can barely score a point when the star fullback goes down. Still we have one specialist hooker, one specialist goal kicker who kicks at 60 per cent and one specialist fullback in our roster so it’s not that surprising.Not hard to work out we have roster issues from Barrett and Des knows it.

But In any case I thought blind Freddy would have realised my point by now but no sadly not .Im not saying spend the cash ffs.

. There is a big fast outside back in the thirty called Hopoate who is on a relative pittance.... but that’s right he will never play because he’s done his acl. As Creighton scores try after try, the Hammer beats a dozen tacklers, Coates soars above the pack and Best rampages down the field ... and if we let him get away through no opportunitues and keep a tortoise backline instead then that will do me.

Walker to centre , Hoppa to wing , Cust at five eight and you have a totally different points scoring dynamic.And if you took the other route and kept Parker and pushed Suli to wing then all of a sudden you have Suli and Hoppa returning the football. Both approaches good options that will get you out of tough corners and find points in big matches.

The salary cap is a little over 9 million,average it out and it equates to a bit over 4.7 million for the backs(maybe if you want to split it between backs/forwards).
We have 3 million of that spent on Suli,DCE,Walker and Tom,that leaves 1.7(roughly) for another 10 players plus maybe 2 practise squad guys.So we have an average to spend of about 170k per guy.Blind Freddy can see that the money is tight for the rest of the squad,where are we going to find the money from?
Yeah some of that will be some minimum contract guys, but with Schuster(signed til 2022),Cust(new contract),Garrick,Parker,Taufua above 170 there is not much left elsewhere.
Hoppa has not signed elsewhere yet and I doubt you or anyone truly know his situation(injury wise),blaming the squad on Barrett still is getting a little old and sad....Out of our current 35 man squad,only 5 did nor sign or re-sign/extend with Des(DCE,Waddell,Hopoate,Elliot and Metcalf).
Just as an aside,players are paid a lot more than many think,I love Crighton,the rest are meh(Coates will be good but has zero involvement and is a work in progress,should be in the centres,Fidow has one run a game and does nothing else,no heart and spills bombs when pressured and let in the dummy half try last week with no effort to tackle,Best is good but is more a Suli type).Crighton after a handful of games has been offered over 500k by other teams,and will re-sign for a lot,that is the sort of money being thrown around nowadays...
Cheap players with talent is a myth.
Happy to see Hoppa get a shot at some point but none of us know the situation no matter how much we like to say we do.

 

[manly al]

The salary cap is a little over 9 million,average it out and it equates to a bit over 4.7 million for the backs(maybe if you want to split it between backs/forwards).
We have 3 million of that spent on Suli,DCE,Walker and Tom,that leaves 1.7(roughly) for another 10 players plus maybe 2 practise squad guys.So we have an average to spend of about 170k per guy.Blind Freddy can see that the money is tight for the rest of the squad,where are we going to find the money from?
Yeah some of that will be some minimum contract guys, but with Schuster(signed til 2022),Cust(new contract),Garrick,Parker,Taufua above 170 there is not much left elsewhere.
Hoppa has not signed elsewhere yet and I doubt you or anyone truly know his situation(injury wise),blaming the squad on Barrett still is getting a little old and sad....
Just as an aside,players are paid a lot more than many think,I love Crighton,the rest are meh(Coates will be good but has zero involvement and is a work in progress,should be in the centres,Fidow has one run a game and does nothing else,no heart and spills bombs when pressured and let in the dummy half try last week with no effort to tackle,Best is good but is more a Suli type).Crighton after a handful of games has been offered over 500k by other teams,and will re-sign for a lot,that is the sort of money being thrown around nowadays...
Cheap players with talent is a myth.
Happy to see Hoppa get a shot at some point but none of us know the situation no matter how much we like to say we do.

Probably a fairly accurate take on the general cap or present cap situation in regard to any additional margin to sign any more players of note , though would be inclined to denote Schuster in the forward category Maybe offering young Hoppa a decent upgrade would be dependent on Elliot exiting . Most likely a catch 22 with Hoppa as well concerning other clubs willing to make an offer as he would presently be regarded as untried and untested and they would prefer to see how he copes with the vigor and intensity of top level footy . Maybe Manly are as well but i guess if the opportunity or necessity came soon to give him a call up , no doubt it would happen regardless of the motives of other clubs . If Elliot leaves and Hoppa goes elsewhere maybe then some scope for an additional outside back of some ability or potential . As for more forward acquisitions , probably very unlikely .[ apart from the Fainu predicament ]

 

[Smokin Joe]

Probably a fairly accurate take on the general cap or present cap situation in regard to any additional margin to sign any more players of note , though would be inclined to denote Schuster in the forward category Maybe offering young Hoppa a decent upgrade would be dependent on Elliot exiting . Most likely a catch 22 with Hoppa as well concerning other clubs willing to make an offer as he would presently be regarded as untried and untested and they would prefer to see how he copes with the vigor and intensity of top level footy . Maybe Manly are as well but i guess if the opportunity or necessity came soon to give him a call up , no doubt it would happen regardless of the motives of other clubs . If Elliot leaves and Hoppa goes elsewhere maybe then some scope for an additional outside back of some ability or potential . As for more forward acquisitions , probably very unlikely .[ apart from the Fainu predicament ]

Al,when you look at our forwards I don't think it matters whether Schuster is a forward or back.I think we have well more than 50% invested in the forwards....

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Hoppa Jnr Jnr is just the type of player we'd be hoping to get a good season or 2 out of before his price gets prohibitive. Storm and Chooks have a never-ending stream of such young talents (not produced, but identified and lured).

Those who excel might earn a big contract bump (eg in Storm's case Kaufusi, NAS, JAC). Others are turned loose (Croft) and replaced with new cheap hopefuls.

We're trying the same successful strategy and the more success our first grade - around the Turbos, DCE, AFB - then the more attractive we'll be as a launch pad for young stars. We're doing OK in this area already, having attracted Keppie, Paseka, Suli, Fainus, Saddler and co.

Just need a couple more tall fast wing hopefuls!

 

[bSw]

I think Des stuck with him due to his goal kicking.. if not he then whom? Also he was great last year like jetski. Des is hoping they recapture that form me thinks

Garrick: a little case of 2nd year syndrome... he'll come good - last year he was outstanding, and was one of the nrl's rookies of the year. this is no fluke. this year, other teams now know who he is. he seems to have the right attitude and will rise again methinks (even though his goal-kicking this season has been shocking!)

Jetski lost a lot of physical strength due to his injury, and he is getting belted this year. he also needs to mature as a footballer mentally too. i reckon with a bit of luck injury-wise and a couple more seasons under Des, he too has a fair bit of potential (although the coming through of guys like Burbo will put pressure on him to retain his place in our top 30)

Jorge needs to step the **** up

 

[Heckenberg]

Have a think about who is inside Siro and Suli and supposed to be running that right side attack. His lack of form is reflecting on all those outside him. His default "I have no idea what to do here" play is to turn Siro under him back into traffic. I'd like to see Suli get some earlier ball too.

Can basically attribute that to no 5/8 or turbo. Everyone knows to rush up on our right side attack and jam in. We never kick to the wingers and dce gets shut off. Now Cust has been playing well and attacking the line direct the defence don’t have us as figured out.

 

[susan]

The salary cap is a little over 9 million,average it out and it equates to a bit over 4.7 million for the backs(maybe if you want to split it between backs/forwards).
We have 3 million of that spent on Suli,DCE,Walker and Tom,that leaves 1.7(roughly) for another 10 players plus maybe 2 practise squad guys.So we have an average to spend of about 170k per guy.Blind Freddy can see that the money is tight for the rest of the squad,where are we going to find the money from?
Yeah some of that will be some minimum contract guys, but with Schuster(signed til 2022),Cust(new contract),Garrick,Parker,Taufua above 170 there is not much left elsewhere.
Hoppa has not signed elsewhere yet and I doubt you or anyone truly know his situation(injury wise),blaming the squad on Barrett still is getting a little old and sad....Out of our current 35 man squad,only 5 did nor sign or re-sign/extend with Des(DCE,Waddell,Hopoate,Elliot and Metcalf).
Just as an aside,players are paid a lot more than many think,I love Crighton,the rest are meh(Coates will be good but has zero involvement and is a work in progress,should be in the centres,Fidow has one run a game and does nothing else,no heart and spills bombs when pressured and let in the dummy half try last week with no effort to tackle,Best is good but is more a Suli type).Crighton after a handful of games has been offered over 500k by other teams,and will re-sign for a lot,that is the sort of money being thrown around nowadays...
Cheap players with talent is a myth.
Happy to see Hoppa get a shot at some point but none of us know the situation no matter how much we like to say we do.

So many figures all based on an error to start with.
The cap is not a little over 9 million.It is 9.8 mill .Add to that third party money and it’s well over 10 mill.

Of course the players I mentioned aren’t the finished product. They’ve played half a dozen games.Thats how you learn.All are better than Garrick as Hoppa will be.
This rubbish they’ll be destroyed mentally after a couple of losses is old school crap.

I know exactly what Hoppas situation is injury wise..Let’s just say the information could not possibly be more accurate.

 

[Smokin Joe]

So many figures all based on an error to start with.
The cap is not a little over 9 million.It is 9.8 mill .Add to that third party money and it’s well over 10 mill.

Of course the players I mentioned aren’t the finished product. They’ve played half a dozen games.Thats how you learn.All are better than Garrick as Hoppa will be.
This rubbish they’ll be destroyed mentally after a couple of losses is old school crap.

I know exactly what Hoppas situation is injury wise..Let’s just say the information could not possibly be more accurate.

Lol...Sure mate,you know all.....Seriously...... third party money don't come under the cap and that is what I did not equate into it...(if you did then you would be audited hahaahaha)
I said a rough halfway figure was 4.7 million which made it 9.4(read up on it because there are car allowances,senior player allowances etc...which take it up to the limit).
We have way more invested in forwards than backs which means we have probably only have a little over 4 million that is spent on backs(that is how Des does it,if you have probs with that then bag Des and not me)
Great game from Coates tonight..couple of good runs,but the first sharks try where he walked after the ball was dropped by Staggs and showed no willingness to chase Mulitalo who had 5 metres already on him before he started to jog sums it up(interesting that the the prop decided it was worth chasing).But the second to last try where he dropped back 30 metres on the blind side and was so slow to react and move up and allowed the Sharks to score the game winner probably tells it all.....Showed up by a CC winger who had a little height is what happened.
Why have young guys learning when you don't need to(or believe you need to ),but that is just the circle argument that keeps going around...
What is this stuff about being destroyed by a couple of losses,pretty sure I did not say that but please show me where I did...

 

[susan]

Fair dinkum. iAudit ? Third party payments are legal.

The obvious point is when you hear a player is on $X dollars it can be made up of cap plus third party or just cap.So when you hear Tom is on 1 mill , probably 900 k counts in the cap.

A big percentage of Cronks “ million dollar salary was third party so a big chunk didn’t go in cap..Most of the higher paid players have significant third party payments in their million dollar salaries. Not as much at clubs like us but that’s how it works.

So we legally pay our players 10.2 mil, not 9.4. ( where 9.4 comes from I have no idea. cap is 9.8).Whether It comes from cap or third party is irrelevant. Is it that hard to work out.
Melbournes player pool is 11.5 million.

Its a bull**** system but that’s how it works.

As for the why bother with a young player learning when you don’t have to ?

Here is a few off the top of my head

1. Tafua, Garrick, Suli and Parker have scored EIGHT tries in total this year ( Garrick 1).Creighton , the player we both love,has scored 11. Our entire backline has scored 15!

2. Our backline has not scored a try off a kick all year.

2.Afew weeks ago we had 80 points on us by two ordinary sides who slaughtered us out wide.has scored tries.

3. We are running ninth ffs. Not top 4

4. If we lose lose tonight we will be effectively two wins with our for and against off 6th and won’t be playing at home at finals. No chance in other words.

 

[40 years an eagle]

the total amount of money available to pay players is 9.8 mill plus legal third party agreements

plus illegal payments.

We probably have zero $ of those and maybe 300k in legal TPA's.

Clubs like the Rorters probably have 1M+ of legal TPA's and 1-2M of illegal ones.

The point stands that we have somewhere around 10M to pay 30 players, the Rorters somewhere around 12-13M and 3 or 4 other clubs have 11-12M.

We spend 6M of out 10M on maybe 9 players and only have 4M to pay the other 21 players.

There ain't much left to upgrade guys like Schuster, young Hoppa etc.

 

[susan]

Not arguing otherwise.Thats why you move players like Elliott , Garrick on if you have to to accomodate guys who could make a difference.
Our roster with one hooker,half a dozen halves, slow outside backs is a mess frankly.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Manly had $148k in TPAs in 2019 according to this
NRL crackdown leads to dramatic drop in third-party deals

The Base Salary Cap for 2020 is $9.5m for the 30 highest remunerated players at each club plus up to $0.2m Veteran and Developed Player allowance and a $0.1m Motor Vehicle allowance.

The advantage of the big clubs now goes beyond the paper TPA agreements (my guesswork only but seems obvious) and is in the realm of 'we'll look after you down the track'. And when you are dealing with people like Politis, Crowe, the Bronco and Storm heavy hitters, that is a promise that you can count on, even if it doesn't come with a specific dollar value.
You only have to listen to the interviews with new Dog sponsor Laundy, who was quite upfront saying he wants to support the players post-career as well, and will do anything he can for them. Sounds clear as daylight to me what he meant.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Not arguing otherwise.Thats why you move players like Elliott , Garrick on if you have to to accomodate guys who could make a difference.
Our roster with one hooker,half a dozen halves, slow outside backs is a mess frankly.

Des likes to build his team, 'it's all about the process', and he knows we aren't a club like the Chooks who can go and buy a ready-made star.
He first selects the players he thinks will best do the job he needs, then gives them every opportunity show they are up to it, meanwhile letting the stable selections help all the players meld into a team. He doesn't expect some to necessarily be up to it immediately if he sees potential for development. Mark Bryant? Over the course of a season he'll conclude that a certain spot needs strengthening (Travis Burns!) so he'll look for a certain player to come in and strengthen us. doesn't always turn to gold (Chris Bailey!) but his choices often do. Perry, Gulavao, Rodney.
He's often been criticised here for not trying some young'un, but fact is he has successfully brought in many young players. I think his record in this area is top shelf.

I'm sure he has a plan for Hoppa and the others, and equally certain he has thought a great deal about the best way and time to introduce them.
.

 

[susan]

Des likes to build his team, 'it's all about the process', and he knows we aren't a club like the Chooks who can go and buy a ready-made star.
He first selects the players he thinks will best do the job he needs, then gives them every opportunity show they are up to it, meanwhile letting the stable selections help all the players meld into a team. He doesn't expect some to necessarily be up to it immediately if he sees potential for development. Mark Bryant? Over the course of a season he'll conclude that a certain spot needs strengthening (Travis Burns!) so he'll look for a certain player to come in and strengthen us. doesn't always turn to gold (Chris Bailey!) but his choices often do. Perry, Gulavao, Rodney.
He's often been criticised here for not trying some young'un, but fact is he has successfully brought in many young players. I think his record in this area is top shelf.

I'm sure he has a plan for Hoppa and the others, and equally certain he has thought a great deal about the best way and time to introduce them.
.

I understand that but in my mind it’s a different game now.
My issue is not so much the blooding of young ones , it’s speed under the new rules. Just happens that young Hoppa has speed so he’s in the spotlight but in reality what I’m questioning is the balance of our team with great forwards and slow backs who are weak with kicks.in attack and defense.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Fair enough but its always a balancing act because the finished product is not always available/affordable. Look at Dufty, great speed but he was a liability for several years, until recently and he is suddenly a real gun!

 

[Chip and Chase]

Can basically attribute that to no 5/8 or turbo. Everyone knows to rush up on our right side attack and jam in. We never kick to the wingers and dce gets shut off. Now Cust has been playing well and attacking the line direct the defence don’t have us as figured out.

Has anyone thought to complain to the NRL that opposition defences are unfairly targetting our playmaker ?? No other half in the NRL has to put up with that.

Once the dummy half makes the decision on which side the ball goes, the defence reacts accordingly. The opposition right side defence don't all swarm across to their left to put special pressure on the right side playmaker before the ball is played. Teams don't get special defenders set to target a half, your defensive pattern is set with A/B defender, backrower, half, centre and winger on each side. Every half, in every team gets "targeted", we are nothing special. It's how you react to that pressure and what bag of tricks you bring that makes the difference. I've seen plenty of halves who make rushing up, jamming in defences look silly.