Fifita article

[voicefromthehill]

I don't like debating to cause arguments but express my views in the same hope I can change one persons mindset around for the better.

Some/Most people believe being open and supportive of the belief in depression will save lives in the same way I feel awakening people to a different view might save a life.

No argument from me, personally I am unconvinced about the issue at hand - this despite being exposed to people who are diagnosed as suffering from depression.

My beliefs are based on personal research, discussion with multiple sources both "alternative" and "conventional" (up to and including a high placed CSIRO scientist) and personal experience.

I used to frequent a well known running website and debated this very topic several times, but what I found was it was a futile discussion as debating on forums is based largely on "I am right you are wrong" for the majority of people. However the same discussion face to face was usually far more productive as most people lost the urge for the aggressive put down response and focused on the topic at hand.

 

[ManlyMagic]

TC you are A mile out of your depth here pls let it go with all due respect you have absolutely no idea. Your opinion is insulting to anyone who has lost a close friend to depression. TC pls let it go!!!

 

[voicefromthehill]

TC you are A mile out of your depth here pls let it go with all due respect you have absolutely no idea. Your opinion is insulting to anyone who has lost a close friend to depression. TC pls let it go!!!

TC is clearly capable of managing this alone - but...

For fear of causing an uproar - can you please explain why having a contrary opinion is insulting? I don't believe TC has said that people can't be depressed, rather the medically diagnosed condition of "depression" is being questioned.

And I don't know who said it - but it is suicide that is the leading cause of death in young men - not the inferred depression

 

[ManlyMagic]

TC is clearly capable of managing this alone - but...

For fear of causing an uproar - can you please explain why having a contrary opinion is insulting? I don't believe TC has said that people can't be depressed, rather the medically diagnosed condition of "depression" is being questioned.

And I don't know who said it - but it is suicide that is the leading cause of death in young men - not the inferred depression

Look this is not the forum for this discussion. I relax by reading footy talk on this forum I only make about 100 post. But in your last paragraph it may have been better phrased that depression is one of the major causes of suicide! People do not commit suicide without a deeper issue or problem

That's it I am not responding further on this particular topic!

 

[voicefromthehill]

Look this is not the forum for this discussion. I relax by reading footy talk on this forum I only make about 100 post. But in your last paragraph it may have been better phrased that depression is one of the major causes of suicide! People do not commit suicide without a deeper issue or problem

That's it I am not responding further on this particular topic!

No worries and apologies if upset was caused - I was referring to someone posting earlier in the thread, not to you, hence new para. It was @Andrew.. That said that.

 

[Technical Coach]

Please just be quiet.

Show some sensitivity to a sensitive issue.

Your opinion aside, the almightier than though attitude that you endlessly showcase is disturbing.

It's disturbing that you find disturbing replies in forum rooms that should be open to all view points.

Just ignore or don't read my replies it is real simple.

What is disturbing is the negative attitudes of so called fans on this site, it did not take them long to lose it when they have had it so good for the last decade.

 

[Kevinward777]

It's disturbing that you find disturbing replies in forum rooms that should be open to all view points.

Just ignore or don't read my replies it is real simple.

What is disturbing is the negative attitudes of so called fans on this site, it did not take them long to lose it when they have had it so good for the last decade.

Nice throw off. Disturbing how you compare a fickle fan base with clinical depression.

 

[Rex]

If we struggle having empathy for people who suffer/suicide through depression, then it is time to get out of our heads and to consult our hearts. The suffering associated with mental illness is every bit as bad as the suffering associated with physically diagnosable "illnesses". Probably worse.

Here is my current understanding of the key issues:
1. How is depression diagnosed? Through a test of brain chemistry? No. Diagnosis is through interview - asking a variety of questions.
2. Who are the pushers of the argument that depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain? Drug companies
3. Who funds the research to support this argument? Drug companies
4. Who pays the researchers? Drug companies
5. Is it established that drugs change brain chemistry? Yes
6. Does anything else change brain chemistry? Yes. Brain chemistry changes when we exercise, eat food , think, emote, experience life. i.e. there are many ways to change brain chemistry, taking drugs is amongst the least safe of these.
7. Do drugs cure depression? No.
8. Can drugs temporarily shift depressed moods? Yes. Drugs can be a temporary useful option for people with major disturbances and suicidal risks.
9. Do drugs lose their effectiveness in causing these mood shifts over time. Yes. This results in progressive increases in dosages, new drugs, etc
10. Do these drugs have negative side effects? Yes. Plenty.
11. Has there been an improvement in population depression rates since the introduction of drugs in the treatment of depression? No. Quite the opposite. Drug prescription rates continue to escalate dramatically every year. If drugs cured depression, then the outcome - obviously - would be a dramatic reduction in population depression rates. In contrast, the facts are that population depression rates continue escalating.

The countries with the lowest depression rates tend to be collectivist societies. The countries with the highest depression rates tend to be individualistic societies. E.g. USA.

The most damaging thing we could do in response to people suffering depression is to dismiss it.

 

[Technical Coach]

Nice throw off. Disturbing how you compare a fickle fan base with clinical depression.

Chin up Kevin life is great....

Trying to end the debate and wind it down more for the sake of others and not myself.

It is just "disturbing" that every new season these stories pop up not with the positive mindset of "to help others" but to sell papers and to seek sympathy/attention.

I'm done nothing new to learn in this discussion.

 

[Kevinward777]

Chin up Kevin life is great....

Trying to end the debate and wind it down more for the sake of others and not myself.

It is just "disturbing" that every new season these stories pop up not with the positive mindset of "to help others" but to sell papers and to seek sympathy/attention.

I'm done nothing new to learn in this discussion.

Indeed, life is tip top, doesn't mean I have to be an egotistical arsehole to others who may be struggling with mental illness. Glad you've chosen to end the debate and taken your neanderthal opinion with you.

 

[Loobs]

Back to the footy aspect - there is also a developing link the U.S. with NFL players that shows the physical stress of contact sports has a pretty negative effect on the brain - there have been quite a few suicides as a result of this.

 

[Technical Coach]

If we struggle having empathy for people who suffer/suicide through depression, then it is time to get out of our heads and to consult our hearts. The suffering associated with mental illness is every bit as bad as the suffering associated with physically diagnosable "illnesses". Probably worse.

Here is my current understanding of the key issues:
1. How is depression diagnosed? Through a test of brain chemistry? No. Diagnosis is through interview - asking a variety of questions.
2. Who are the pushers of the argument that depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain? Drug companies
3. Who funds the research to support this argument? Drug companies
4. Who pays the researchers? Drug companies
5. Is it established that drugs change brain chemistry? Yes
6. Does anything else change brain chemistry? Yes. Brain chemistry changes when we exercise, eat food , think, emote, experience life. i.e. there are many ways to change brain chemistry, taking drugs is amongst the least safe of these.
7. Do drugs cure depression? No.
8. Can drugs temporarily shift depressed moods? Yes. Drugs can be a temporary useful option for people with major disturbances and suicidal risks.
9. Do drugs lose their effectiveness in causing these mood shifts over time. Yes. This results in progressive increases in dosages, new drugs, etc
10. Do these drugs have negative side effects? Yes. Plenty.
11. Has there been an improvement in population depression rates since the introduction of drugs in the treatment of depression? No. Quite the opposite. Drug prescription rates continue to escalate dramatically every year. If drugs cured depression, then the outcome - obviously - would be a dramatic reduction in population depression rates. In contrast, the facts are that population depression rates continue escalating.

The countries with the lowest depression rates tend to be collectivist societies. The countries with the highest depression rates tend to be individualistic societies. E.g. USA.

The most damaging thing we could do in response to people suffering depression is to dismiss it.

Pretty obvious with the above treating "depression" as an illness has failed so why do we continue to make the same mistakes "money".

Not dismissing the state of being depressed and would always lend an open hand or ear to help out but once someone tells me they are suffering depression then they have to start helping themselves because their mindset is made up that they are dealing with an illness.

 

[Technical Coach]

Back to the footy aspect - there is also a developing link the U.S. with NFL players that shows the physical stress of contact sports has a pretty negative effect on the brain - there have been quite a few suicides as a result of this.

Physical trauma to the head like any head injury can cause negative effects on the brain nothing new, we all know this is a fact that can't be disputed.

 

[Wombat64]

Pretty obvious with the above treating "depression" as an illness has failed so why do we continue to make the same mistakes "money".

Not dismissing the state of being depressed and would always lend an open hand or ear to help out but once someone tells me they are suffering depression then they have to start helping themselves because their mindset is made up that they are dealing with an illness.

**** me.........

 

[Rex]

Pretty obvious with the above treating "depression" as an illness has failed so why do we continue to make the same mistakes "money".

Not dismissing the state of being depressed and would always lend an open hand or ear to help out but once someone tells me they are suffering depression then they have to start helping themselves because their mindset is made up that they are dealing with an illness.

No dispute on your view of the key motivator in the current drug-based treatment regime - money. A five to ten minute discussion with a GP and BINGO - a prescription. Normally without any talk-based therapy or any other treatment.

In collectivist societies, people support each other. They seek to empathise, not advise. They seek to understand, not judge. They don't cop out with intellectual arguments about "personal responsibility". And depression rates are significantly lower. Connection?

 

[lsz]

As someone who is married to a person who has suffered from depression for a number of years I will respectfully agree to disagree

I have seen first hand the toll it has taken on her. My wife avoided medication for a number of years as she saw it as the "soft option". Finally she decided to try it (as years of therapy had not worked). Did it "cure" her ? No . Did it help give her a crutch so she could function and continue to get therapy? Yes . Has it helped her overall ? Yes

TC I respect your opinion it just does not match with my personal experience

 

[Andrew..]

I won't comment in this thread again....I just wanted to apologise if anything I said has upset anyone. It's just a topic that's close to my heart.

 

[wombatgc]

I won't comment in this thread again....I just wanted to apologise if anything I said has upset anyone. It's just a topic that's close to my heart.

Not at all Andrew. It's not the first time TC has given his opinions on depression.For those that are trapped in its clutches..keep fighting hard.

 

[Nike]

TC I respect where you're coming from and the logic you base your opinions off, but I disagree with your Freudian approach. It's not a black and white subject and can't be treated like one IMO.

 

[Loobs]

Guys also please show some respect and refer to him going forward as Dr Technical Coach.