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Dylan Walker

Bring back the.... Biff?

Foran 2021 Eagle
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Messages
5,281
I would say that both the NRL and club would have discretionary powers .. although being found guilty of a criminal offence would likely trigger the tear-up clause ... both could choose not to enforce ... but I would also think that if the NRL choose to deregister a player, the club would have no say in it ..

As to used nuts ... I am not sure you would believe me ... anyway I could be wrong because Mary apparently went ok without any usage of Joseph's nuts ...
Always a class act
 

The better Robbo

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Oct 5, 2017
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2,013
Imo 6 as he is the best option there. Schuster will be mentored by Foran and he will become a better player for it.
Des foran snake dce turbo all conjuring up some magic. Cant wait
That's it mate. Every one saying Foran will just hold Schuster back has rocks in their heads. Schuster has a possible 12 or more years in 1st grade. Not many players walk straight into 1st grade in such an important position. Schuster will get plenty of game time even if Foz as 6 all year.
Starting Schuster at 6 is a risky move and could actually hinder his development if his confidence gets rocked. This ain't school boy footy anymore!
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Triggered Boomer”
Premium Member
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Oct 2, 2008
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32,462
In relation to those players mentioned above by @Bring back the.... Biff? , surely anyone hoping they’ll get injured is in jest??

Like everyone I have my doubts over Foran and especially Turbo BUT if there’s a football god for ****s said you’ve caned the **** out of us for years so how about a trouble free run for a change in 2021.
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Triggered Boomer”
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32,462
That's it mate. Every one saying Foran will just hold Schuster back has rocks in their heads. Schuster has a possible 12 or more years in 1st grade. Not many players walk straight into 1st grade in such an important position. Schuster will get plenty of game time even if Foz as 6 all year.
Starting Schuster at 6 is a risky move and could actually hinder his development if his confidence gets rocked. This ain't school boy footy anymore!
My opinion ( and I’m no expert )

Cust to 9 ( on a wing and a prayer )

Foran to 6 ( first and possibly last 20 minutes )

Schuster to 14 ( middle 40 OR Foran to 9 if Cust gets injured).

But I do state , I’m no @Technical Coach
 

lulubelle

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130
And Walker and Suli in the centre. Cust will be fine. He'll be a star by the end of the year. And I fear Fauna might well be in jail. Hopefully not.
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
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Messages
6,413
Imo 6 as he is the best option there. Schuster will be mentored by Foran and he will become a better player for it.
Des foran snake dce turbo all conjuring up some magic. Cant wait

Foran didn't need mentoring at the same age. Neither does Schuster. Certainly Foran can give him tips, but let him set the play moving at dummy half. Foran was a top player but would you have blocked his path by continuing with Jamie Lyon at 5/8 and put Foran in the forwards. No way.
 

Bring back the.... Biff?

Foran 2021 Eagle
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Messages
5,281
Foran didn't need mentoring at the same age. Neither does Schuster. Certainly Foran can give him tips, but let him set the play moving at dummy half. Foran was a top player but would you have blocked his path by continuing with Jamie Lyon at 5/8 and put Foran in the forwards. No way.
I disagree Foran had andrew johns teaching him same with dce. Foran also had a superstar team he walked into. One of the best in the modern era for sure. The 40 nil boys! Schuster has none of that. A few great players around him sure but nothing like what foran had
 

Bring back the.... Biff?

Foran 2021 Eagle
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Messages
5,281
If guilty I reckon he will get a couple of weeks for bringing the game into disrepute. No doubt in my mind. But surely he can offset any suspension against the 10 weeks’ credit he accrued last time??
Yes i agree this disrepute BS will definitely come up. Funny how sCam and co constantly suggest they won those premierships yet they arent bringing the game into disrepute? Bah humbug!
 

Bearfax

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I disagree Foran had andrew johns teaching him same with dce. Foran also had a superstar team he walked into. One of the best in the modern era for sure. The 40 nil boys! Schuster has none of that. A few great players around him sure but nothing like what foran had

There is a significant difference between having Foran take the 5/8 role and forcing Schuster into a bench position to Foran receiving advice from Johns who was not playing for Manly and tutored DCE and Foran from the side lines.

I'm not suggesting Foran cant give advice and he probably will. No doubt Des, a former 5/8, has also given advice for a few years now. Maybe even Cliffy has had a word or two to Schuster. But that's no where near the same as someone coming into the squad and taking a role, Schuster has been preparing for, for several years and has stayed at Manly for this specific reason.

Jamie Lyon was Manly's 5/8 before Foran came along and unlike Foran today, still had years left in him. Yet he was moved to centre to accommodate Foran's arrival, when he was only 19, which coincidentally is Schuster's age. And Schuster has somewhat more junior recognition than Foran had, before he started first grade and he also has captained junior sides.

Foran was a top class player when he was at Manly, but its easy to forget that, though still talented, he is not the player he was. He could be inspirational as dummy half and no doubt will assist Schuster. But that's a far stretch from taking his place on the field.

As for not having a champion side around him, it is all the more reason Manly gets the most talented kids on the field, which was one of the major complaints most on these sites had last year. No surprise when Des started promoting them late in the year, that the team began to show more attacking flair. It was the juniors that did that, not the older brigade. Experience is important, but youth is needed for vitality, speed, and more initiative. Players like Schuster offer that and he, more than any junior in our squad must be on the field in a play makers role.
 

SeaEagleRock8

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it is all the more reason Manly gets the most talented kids on the field, which was one of the major complaints most on these sites had last year.
The loudest and most high-pitched complaint here last year was when we loaned Hoppa Jnr to the Warriors! So citing that expertise in support of your argument doesn't carry too much weight just at the moment!
;)
 

Bearfax

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The loudest and most high-pitched complaint here last year was when we loaned Hoppa Jnr to the Warriors! So citing that expertise in support of your argument doesn't carry too much weight just at the moment!
;)

Have a think about players I push for SER8. Just in recent years immediately after they had been let go, Gutherson, Tom Wright, Hastings, Parcell. Everyone went on to far better things elsewhere and we were left with a squad that almost got the spoon twice.

I make mistakes but usually I can see when there is someone worth holding onto. Same applied with Schuster three years back. I'll say the same for a couple of others coming through, now. Certainly, occasionally players like Anderson, who I thought was on the way up, falter. It happens. But as with players of that quality, you hold on to them long enough to see if after a year or two in first grade or at least reserves, they reach the level their promise suggests. Sometimes they don't, but usually sheer talent will rise to the surface.

Young Hoppa has sheer talent. Hasn't shown it in firsts yet, but he hasn't had time. So far just five games in a losing side primarily on the wing. He has the skills to be outstanding. Manly should hold onto him for two years and see if that talent translates to on the field performance. Letting him go now could be another egg on the face decision.

Manly have let these kids, or imports with potential, go far too early in recent times, sometimes after developing them for years. Rarely happened a decade or two ago. And for what? Pedestrian so so players, or former top players near retirement, brought in as back ups, ending up playing first grade almost permanently because of injuries, while potentially skilful youngsters sit on the side lines.

Hopoate is a kid now feeling his way after two serious injuries. I've watched a young athlete, a professional trainer, at my gym, who recently suffered one such injury. Six months later after the operation, despite returning to training, he is still hobbling and tentative. I suspect it takes a lot to get that confidence back and overcome the fear of a relapse, especially after it happens twice. And quite frankly I'm too utilitarian to be much concerned with their other stuff away from the game, which is often just a lot of b.s in my opinion. They are there to play football full stop. He would be in first grade now but for those injuries.

Too often these kids are expected to fly before they walk, and it seems decisions, like so many I see today, are knee jerk, rather than well considered. My argument would be, hold onto talent and watch it develop in first grade for a year or two. At that age it costs far less than most established first graders. Teams pay for talent. Newcastle paid 18 year old Ponga $3.5 million for five years in 2017, after barely a year of first grade. Were they wrong? If they don't reach the next level, then let them go. But never let talent go before you've seriously tested it. in my opinion. Without the experience of at least a year or two in first grade, you cant expect them to gain the confidence and hardness to demonstrate just how good they can become. The Bulldogs forgot that with Thurston. The Cowboys forgot that with Ponga. The Sea Eagles have forgotten that with a couple of players who've since starred elsewhere.

Having said all that, I also acknowledge Schuster may fail to reach the level I think he can. That's the risk I guess that has to be taken in any player. However, to sit him on the bench or out of his natural position, and not allow him to show if he is as good as he looks, is not going to tell you if he is as good as he seems.
 
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SeaEagleRock8

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Without the experience of at least a year or two in first grade, you cant expect them to gain the confidence and hardness to demonstrate just how good they can become.
Sorry but no logic to your argument. You want to give talented young players "a year or two" playing NRL before expecting them to show whether they can be any good? Your example of young Hoppa proves why not. All the talent but simply not ready.

And no team can expect to do well in NRL selecting someone not ready 5 times. Let alone selecting several young talents at the same time for "a year or two". Just to find out whether they are going to make it.

So many talented youngsters, so few actually make it. And I disagree that we'd have done better to retain Hastings Parcell and Tom Wright. Same with Ramien, Knight, Garner, Hynes and co, even though to some degree they've all become fair players. Gutho, in hindsight, yes, JWH, yes, but those two are the exception.

Glenn Stewart is the perfect example of giving a player time to become a top player. When he does, put him in first grade, until then you don't! For a couple of years you were howling for the inclusion of Jade Anderson, but he simply wasn't ready. As for Schu, he's clearly going to make it (injury permitting) but I expect we'll start 2021 with Foran at 5/8.
 
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Bearfax

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Sorry but no logic to your argument. You want to give talented young players "a year or two" playing NRL before expecting them to show whether they can be any good? Your example of young Hoppa proves why not. All the talent but simply not ready.

And no team can expect to do well in NRL selecting someone not ready 5 times. Let alone selecting several young talents at the same time for "a year or two". Just to find out whether they are going to make it.

So many talented youngsters, so few actually make it. And I disagree that we'd have done better to retain Hastings Parcell and Tom Wright. Same with Ramien, Knight, Garner, Hynes and co, even though to some degree they've all become fair players. Gutho, in hindsight, yes, JWH, yes, they are the exception.

Glenn Stewart is the perfect example of giving a player time to become a top player. When he does, put him in first grade, until then you don't! For a couple of years you were howling for the inclusion of Jade Anderson, but he simply wasn't ready. As for Schu, he's clearly going to make it (injury permitting) but I expect we'll start 2021 with Foran at 5/8.

Cant understand your position on logic. What you are proposing is one of the reasons Manly are at the bottom of the comp. Because we aren't holding the kids who can make a difference and instead go out and look for safe and slow. Its been happening for much of the past 5-6 years. If you have a player of quality coming through, not every young player, I'm talking about those who have shown outstanding quality during their juniors years, I would consider it illogical, not to give them time in first grade to develop. You mentioned a whole bunch of kids let go and said they are just exceptions. No, they are examples of a failure of the Manly system in the past decade to hold onto our best young players and give them time to show their wares. And this love affair with Foran intrigues me. He WAS an outstanding player and if you read what I said about him leaving, while others attacked him, I said it was just business, because I'm pragmatic about these issues. But lets be honest and pragmatic again. For five years he's been broken, shown the door twice and not re signed by the third club. We may be very lucky and he survives the year, but SE if we lose Schuster because of Foran getting first try at 5/8 and lets be serious, if he manages to stay on the field it will be for the year (that's how Des operates), you can say goodbye to Schuster. Another lost opportunity. Madness.

As for would we have done better with the players we lost. If you think the ones we had on the field this year in the backs were better than those we lost, I stand back in astonishment mate.
 
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Nice Beaver

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1,511
I disagree Foran had andrew johns teaching him same with dce. Foran also had a superstar team he walked into. One of the best in the modern era for sure. The 40 nil boys! Schuster has none of that. A few great players around him sure but nothing like what foran had
Mate....not sure I'd mention Johns as the mentor for Foran

We all know what Johns brought to the club to influence Foz.....
 

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