[Resurrected] DCE is the worst halfback in the NRL

[susan]

Only 1 player is credited with each tackle buddy, not 2, 3, 4 or 5.

That’s actually not the case. The number of team tackles is totally different to the combined individual tackles at the end of a game.
The stats men have to make a subjective opinion as to whether a player contributed to the tackle. In most cases two players and on rare occasions three players are credited with the same tackle.In the modern game where gang tackles are the norm.

This is the reason you get different individual tackle counts on different sites while the total team tackles are always the same. Each statistician has to make that subjective judgement for every tackle as to who contributed.when doing individual counts.

 

[Scorpio]

Only 1 player is credited with each tackle buddy, not 2, 3, 4 or 5.

So if 1 player makes initial contact (say the halfback) and 2 players join in to complete the job... who gets credited with the tackle? That's what those numbers don't really say.

Regardless, having seen DCE take down second rowers and props 1-on-1 this season, I have trouble believing there are better defensive halves in the competition.

 

[40 years an eagle]

That’s actually not the case. The number of team tackles is totally different to the combined individual tackles at the end of a game.
The stats men have to make a subjective opinion as to whether a player contributed to the tackle. In most cases two players and on rare occasions three players are credited with the same tackle.In the modern game where gang tackles are the norm.

This is the reason you get different individual tackle counts on different sites while the total team tackles are always the same. Each statistician has to make that subjective judgement for every tackle as to who contributed.when doing individual counts.

Thanks for that, I stand corrected. Is a 3rd man flopper EVER credited with a tackle.

 

[40 years an eagle]

So if 1 player makes initial contact (say the halfback) and 2 players join in to complete the job... who gets credited with the tackle? That's what those numbers don't really say.

Regardless, having seen DCE take down second rowers and props 1-on-1 this season, I have trouble believing there are better defensive halves in the competition.

I thought the dominant tackler is credited with the tackle, that's the way it used to be. I have never checked team tackle numbers to published individual numbers but surely 3rd man flops don't count.

 

[susan]

I thought the dominant tackler is credited with the tackle, that's the way it used to be. I have never checked team tackle numbers to published individual numbers but surely 3rd man flops don't count.

No they don’t count. Should be a penalty if refereed properly.The stats guys count individuals who make a significant contribution to a tsckle. Flops should never be counted.

It’s subjective hence the differing tsckle counts on different sites. The team tackles have to be the same on all the sites if done properly as it’s simply a matter of counting tackles in the sets of each team. Eg a perfect game with 30 complete sets and no kicking is 180 tackles.
Individual tackles would be many more.


I’ve been involved in footy for a long time and that’s how it’s been done for as long as I can remember.

 

[susan]

This game shows you how important just running hard and fast is.

Look at Melbourne, they don't even have their two main ball players in Smith and Munster, yet jacks and Hughes look like world beaters because Melbournes forwards are just steam rolling roosters. Brushing off tackles, quick play the balls, off loads.

Keary cannot get into the game.

I wonder how DCE would go in the Melbourne side with their well drilled side and great outside backs and forwards.

The speed and fluency of their backline ball movement is unbelieveable. Every attacking kick also looks like a prospective try. We are just light years away from them in this new game even with Tommy. Nine tries for our three quarters all year.
Speed and kicks to wingers is in a different league. We have a lot of adapting to do.

 

[niccipops]

DCE deserves to hold the trophy as Manly captain. Would love for it to happen.

 

[Scorpio]

No they don’t count. Should be a penalty if refereed properly.The stats guys count individuals who make a significant contribution to a tsckle. Flops should never be counted.

It’s subjective hence the differing tsckle counts on different sites. The team tackles have to be the same on all the sites if done properly as it’s simply a matter of counting tackles in the sets of each team. Eg a perfect game with 30 complete sets and no kicking is 180 tackles.
Individual tackles would be many more.


I’ve been involved in footy for a long time and that’s how it’s been done for as long as I can remember.

Thank you for clarifying this.

Seems I got confused on my definitions. But I wouldn't take any other halfback in defense than DCE... it is the one area of his game where he has been consistently great.

 

[Bearfax]

That probably doesn't take into account a third man flop which is counted as a tackle... I would bet that DCE has a lot less of those than most others on this list.

That's no way to speak of Cam Smith. His defensive work as an acknowledged third man flop, elbow and strangle hold expertise, has been counted as effective tackles for years. The refs, NRL, and Melbourne support base laud his achievements. What a man.

 

[Lyonstomenzies]

Jonathan Thurston was one of the best halves over the last 30 years.
His record at the Cowboys is as follows when it comes to ladder position
2005- runners up
2005- 9th
2006- 3rd
2008-15th
2009- 12th
2010- 15th
2011- 7th
2012- 5th
2013- 8th
2014- 5th
2015- Premiers
2016 - 4th
2017- runners up

My point to this is the Cowboys has some horrible years with the best half in the comp.They only did well the years their spine were capable of building combinations. Thurston was deadly when he had a sharp hooker and also when he had a pack that rolled up the field.
DCE and Thurston play very similar games, Thurston though had the best short kicking game around.
When Michael Morgan took the line on and started also kicking along with Granville at dummy half Thurston was able to have far less pressure on his kicking game and then he looked like the best half ever.
When we had Ballin DCE looked like the best half going around, when Fainu was around he looked to have so much more time. Now opposition markers just have to pressure him all game as we know and then we are fcuked.

 

[jbb/james]

Jonathan Thurston was one of the best halves over the last 30 years.
His record at the Cowboys is as follows when it comes to ladder position
2005- runners up
2005- 9th
2006- 3rd
2008-15th
2009- 12th
2010- 15th
2011- 7th
2012- 5th
2013- 8th
2014- 5th
2015- Premiers
2016 - 4th
2017- runners up

My point to this is the Cowboys has some horrible years with the best half in the comp.They only did well the years their spine were capable of building combinations. Thurston was deadly when he had a sharp hooker and also when he had a pack that rolled up the field.
DCE and Thurston play very similar games, Thurston though had the best short kicking game around.
When Michael Morgan took the line on and started also kicking along with Granville at dummy half Thurston was able to have far less pressure on his kicking game and then he looked like the best half ever.
When we had Ballin DCE looked like the best half going around, when Fainu was around he looked to have so much more time. Now opposition markers just have to pressure him all game as we know and then we are fcuked.

Agree.
I saw that thurstons salary stopped ntq qld from recruiting the players they needed to go to the next level. Then when they uneartherd some cheap players like glanville and morgan they had a decent team that could challenged.

DCE was once part of that cheapie thing at manly. He and foran . But no one gets to keep them all.

We may get lucky and time it , so we get the player we need cheap enough who is on the rise. But this is our only real play

Too many players are signed in the purple patch and cant deliver consistently.

Thurston to his credit does one thing our million dollar man wont do. Puts himself out there to be hit by ball playing at the line or kicking at it.

All the analagies ,and similaraties in the world don t really address his lack of contribution in the areas he is paid to contribute, or how we afford to add thise players under the cap

 

[manly al]

Jonathan Thurston was one of the best halves over the last 30 years.
His record at the Cowboys is as follows when it comes to ladder position
2005- runners up
2005- 9th
2006- 3rd
2008-15th
2009- 12th
2010- 15th
2011- 7th
2012- 5th
2013- 8th
2014- 5th
2015- Premiers
2016 - 4th
2017- runners up

My point to this is the Cowboys has some horrible years with the best half in the comp.They only did well the years their spine were capable of building combinations. Thurston was deadly when he had a sharp hooker and also when he had a pack that rolled up the field.
DCE and Thurston play very similar games, Thurston though had the best short kicking game around.
When Michael Morgan took the line on and started also kicking along with Granville at dummy half Thurston was able to have far less pressure on his kicking game and then he looked like the best half ever.
When we had Ballin DCE looked like the best half going around, when Fainu was around he looked to have so much more time. Now opposition markers just have to pressure him all game as we know and then we are fcuked.

Not sure that that would be the most relevant way of a comparison of or long term rating of D C E and in relation to a team performance factor , surely more on an individual basis . Thurston [ and even though i would have hardly watched many Cowboys games ] would have almost certainly rated on a very regular basis say 7 , 5 or 8 plus range on his individual game performances . Regular Australian rep through most of his career to validate this . D C E is the highest paid listed player in the game currently and has been Manly 's for many seasons now and his individual game ratings has certainly not been a regular 7,5 - 8 plus range . Thurston could dictate the terms of many a game regularly to very good effect , not so D C E if there is a realistic analysis . Talented player , on his best days very good for Manly , has been back to his whole hearted and good input efforts of late but value for the money he is on , at least up to this point , very hard to support a case for that notion .

 

[Bearfax]

Not sure that that would be the most relevant way of a comparison of or long term rating of D C E and in relation to a team performance factor , surely more on an individual basis . Thurston [ and even though i would have hardly watched many Cowboys games ] would have almost certainly rated on a very regular basis say 7 , 5 or 8 plus range on his individual game performances . Regular Australian rep through most of his career to validate this . D C E is the highest paid listed player in the game currently and has been Manly 's for many seasons now and his individual game ratings has certainly not been a regular 7,5 - 8 plus range . Thurston could dictate the terms of many a game regularly to very good effect , not so D C E if there is a realistic analysis . Talented player , on his best days very good for Manly , has been back to his whole hearted and good input efforts of late but value for the money he is on , at least up to this point , very hard to support a case for that notion .

Strange thing is in most games DCE is playing, he rates as the best or one of our best in most games by non Manly critics. Seems we have greater expectations. Besides, would we have been better off if we had kept Foran on close to the same money

 

[mickqld]

You can't function without a strong spine ..... and currently we don't have one

We do have one. Just 3/4 of it is spending the year being spectators.

 

[nightster]

We do have one. Just 3/4 of it is spending the year being spectators.

thats why I said currently I think we may not see Fainu again in which case I'd like to see Cust tried at 9 and Schuster given a run at 6 Hopa at fb ... at some stage

 

[Chip and Chase]

Strange thing is in most games DCE is playing, he rates as the best or one of our best in most games by non Manly critics. Seems we have greater expectations. Besides, would we have been better off if we had kept Foran on close to the same money

So he must have won a few Dally M halfback of the year awards then ??

 

[Bearfax]

So he must have won a few Dally M halfback of the year awards then ??

Thurston and Cronk, not surprisingly won most of the half back awards in the past 10 years. But Cherry Evans won one in 2014, was Rookie of the year 2011, won the Churchill Award in 2013 despite being on the losing side and has played 15 tests. I think that makes him a fairly high quality half.

 

[mickqld]

Keep this thread at the top. This guy isn't in the top 8 halfbacks and isn't in the top 12 captains. Over rated and over paid.

 

[conanu]

I am really happy DCE is our half, and I firmly believe we would be considerably worse if we did not have him. My only issue with DCE is the fact that he is being payed about $350,000 over what he is actually worth, He is in the top 6 halves and deserves good money but when I see guys like Keary are on $900,000 then im sorry DCE is not worth 1.2m. However we were desperate at the time and signed up to paying overs for 8 years so no fault of DCE. That 350,000 is the difference in being able to offer money to a world class centre of second rower or buy more quality depth. So we have to hope the plodders we have can lift consistently and they can't, they are all firing at different times but never together. Add to that the fact that our second highest payed player Tom T has played a 3rd of the games he could have in the last 2 years, our starting hooker is out all year and our expensive centre come 5/8 Walker is the most injury prone player we have ever signed explains why we are so frustrated but it is amazing that we are even competitive.

 

[Sheikheagle]

I rarely bag DCE but I thought his kicking game today was dreadful. On a day of strong winds it should have been a nightmare for the Knights back 3, but they did it easy really. They were nowhere near deep enough.