Attributing blame

[Snake]

We lost the point of contact from the first tackle and did not really change all night, Cust looked dangerous and the panthers have weaknesses,but they bashed us all night.Hard to have a good kicking game when you are struggling to get any real go forward and trying to get a good kick off the back of no go forward is pretty hard.Doubt DCE would have been the difference last night....Marty needed to be hooked at the 10 minute mark,and I am one of his biggest supporters here(horses for courses).Very poor use of the bench and looked like Des was trying to wait them out and hope they tired(not a great game plan).When things are not working you need to say bugger the plan with the use of the bench and play what is happening on the field.

We had the early momentum in the first 15 minutes and attacked Penrith’s line and came up with two of the worst sets of our season that finished with laughable 5th tackle options to let Penrith off the hook. You have to build pressure with good last tackle options and it changes the course of the game.

We turned the ball over on the 30m line consistently, in spite of continually rucking the ball up over half way. Maloney kicked in behind Elliott and Taufua multiple times and our forwards had to work their arses off all night.

No wonder it started to look like they lost the point of contact and were flat. They were gassed.

If the fancy GPS equipment on the back of the players jerseys could measure battery life, people would see the fatigue, but for some reason contact is deemed a 50/50 commodity when it is actually 70/30 or worse at times due to one side being fresher.

If you can’t build pressure through effective kicking, the forwards tire and it looks like you’ve lost the forward battle through apathy...but sometimes you lose the forward battle because you are working too hard to make up for the rubbish 5th tackle options that allow the opposition to play on the front foot.

 

[HoldenV8]

I like Cust, but he is playing adove himself way too soon with our injury situation. For a half his kicking game is z grade and hasn’t displayed a passing game and all needs to be worked on

And the worst part is that while he was crap for all but 5 minutes last night, Cust was still thousands better than what LG dished up.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

And the worst part is that while he was crap for all but 5 minutes last night, Cust was still thousands better than what LG dished up.

That’s where I disagree with most on last night. Both were poor, but for me a huge reason we lost that game, was that Cust killed our attack for the majority of the game on that side and didn’t feed early ball to our best attacking strike weapon. He ran nicely at the end of the game but the few times walker got good ball he was making things happen, Elgey was at least giving his outside men decent ball, and the inside ball to Elliott was a nice touch that Tom probably makes more of.

 

[Paw93]

I like Cust, but he is playing adove himself way too soon with our injury situation. For a half his kicking game is z grade and hasn’t displayed a passing game and all needs to be worked on

Exactly! Cust is not the answer. He has a strong running game and can defend relatively well but has shown nothing aside from that. Elgey has been terrible these last few weeks. I do see potential for a good FG player with his skill set but he can't lead the team around himself.
Hopefully DCE backs up from origin and Croker comes in for next week.

 

[Ryan]

I don’t get you Ryan, you bag a player like Boyle that is a rookie that plays 10 minutes a game and then on the other hand you continue to defend LG who has 4 years experience that continues to under perform in a big way. Boyle wouldn’t be on much more than $150K whilst LG would be on $400k+.

I guess it's opinion. People feel positive and negative about differing things. Doesn't mean it's wrong or right.

I'm positive about many things. Hey, even Barrett. I've always backed and supported Walker. Etc, etc, etc, so I hope you see it's GROSSLY misguided to suggest I'm just negative.

It's about opening your mind to others opinions.

 

[Kez]

Exactly! Cust is not the answer. He has a strong running game and can defend relatively well but has shown nothing aside from that. Elgey has been terrible these last few weeks. I do see potential for a good FG player with his skill set but he can't lead the team around himself.
Hopefully DCE backs up from origin and Croker comes in for next week.

Cust reminds me a little of a younger Foran
His kicking and passing will improve with game time,confidence and the right guidance and is showing more promise after only a few games in 1st grade than Elgey is showing after yrs
I would like to see him play with Dce for a few games to see how he develops,with Crocker injury prone i am sure he will get his chance

 

[Fibro Eagle]

The old saying if your forwards aren’t going forward your half’s can’t dominate
Well the stats show our forwards made more metres more offloads . So the half’s should have dominated . But they didn’t ,Why ? Cause the stats lie , Taupau metres were slow trudging metres hardly any impact and they weren’t backed by another run on the back of it AFB runs were better but not by far .We turning around there pack and getting them on the back foot .Most of our runs were from a standing start and trudging along . How do we expect the half’s to dominate .The good ones sometimes can but when you have a rookie and an average one it’s going to be a struggle.
The last 10 mins when they decided to have a go and got them on the back foot we got 2 tries cause Cust and Fainu was able to play with some space
But with some players coming back soon it should improve I’d dread our season if we lost DCE Turbo and Jake for the season

 

[HoldenV8]

Elgey was at least giving his outside men decent ball

You mean like that time about midway through the second half when were were attacking their line and on the 5th tackle, instead of putting the ball into the in-goal and trying for at least a repeat set.....LG just handed the ball off to Garrick who was in the corner, had nowhere to go and got buried resulting in a turnover?

Or how about his Harbour Bridge passes that give the opposition time to go out and have a coffee before the ball gets to the centre or winger.

 

[tookey]

Elliot needs to concentrate more on his ball catching case closed.It’s happening a fair bit lately.

Jorge will teach him

 

[Smokin Joe]

We had the early momentum in the first 15 minutes and attacked Penrith’s line and came up with two of the worst sets of our season that finished with laughable 5th tackle options to let Penrith off the hook. You have to build pressure with good last tackle options and it changes the course of the game.

We turned the ball over on the 30m line consistently, in spite of continually rucking the ball up over half way. Maloney kicked in behind Elliott and Taufua multiple times and our forwards had to work their arses off all night.

No wonder it started to look like they lost the point of contact and were flat. They were gassed.

If the fancy GPS equipment on the back of the players jerseys could measure battery life, people would see the fatigue, but for some reason contact is deemed a 50/50 commodity when it is actually 70/30 or worse at times due to one side being fresher.

If you can’t build pressure through effective kicking, the forwards tire and it looks like you’ve lost the forward battle through apathy...but sometimes you lose the forward battle because you are working too hard to make up for the rubbish 5th tackle options that allow the opposition to play on the front foot.

Don't think we had momentum in first 15,maybe in last 15.They beat us up from the first tackle,teams always have opportunities in games on the opposition line and yes you have to take them.We were poor from the start....They came ready to rumble,we did not.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

You mean like that time about midway through the second half when were were attacking their line and on the 5th tackle, instead of putting the ball into the in-goal and trying for at least a repeat set.....LG just handed the ball off to Garrick who had nowhere to go and got buried resulting in a turnover?

What I basically mean is how many times did you see Sironen and Garrick with the ball in their hands, compared to Thompson and Walker

All we saw of Walker in the first half was taking tough carries out of our own end. 1st set of the 2nd half he saw the ball early with space and put Jorge away up the sideline. If Walker was playing his usual right hand side he would have seen more ball

 

[HappilyManly]

No use running for 20m ony to be dominated ... take 5 mins to get up and play the ball .... looks great in the stats , but doesn't win games ..sorry Bear, I respect your opinion and there is truth in it ..... but our forwards as a group were donkey-licked ...

I am 100% certain their pack walked off that field totally convinced they schooled us ... and they did ... our play the ball was so slow they all had time to get back and rush up and hit us again, and again and again ... and their missed tackles didn't hurt them because they always had 6 men in a tackle ... one missing didn't matter ...

PSS ... I would love somebody with plenty of time on their hands to get a stop watch and go over last nights game and time the average play the ball speeds for both teams ... if I am wrong I will apologise ...

I already posted it in the GAME DAY Thread

https://www.nrl.com/draw/nrl-premiership/2019/round-12/panthers-v-sea-eagles/

Scroll down to Player Stats, click Sea Eagles then every player's metric is there - you just need to scroll left

LG, Walker, Jorge, Api are plods 😕

 

[Deleted member 26876]

I think Cust has a great defending and kicking game (aside from that dead grubber last night). His running in attack is good and always is confident enough to take on the line, that will work wonders with tom trbo and dce back. Stumped our attack at times, although was nothing like Elgey, who was genuinly shocking

His kicking was actually good, just needed to take ALL the duties off Elgey who seemed to take almost every kick

 

[HoldenV8]

What I basically mean is how many times did you see Sironen and Garrick with the ball in their hands, compared to Thompson and Walker

All we saw of Walker in the first half was taking tough carries out of our own end. 1st set of the 2nd half he saw the ball early with space and put Jorge away up the sideline. If Walker was playing his usual right hand side he would have seen more ball

No argument that Siro and Garrick saw more of the ball on the right, especially in the first half, than Walker did on the left. But nothing about the passes from LG was quality.

The fact that despite that, Walker was able run for almost triple the amount of metres that Garrick did shows that at least when he did get the ball from Cust, it wasn't just a pass off so that Cust didn't have the ball, he was actually put into some space. Siro made ground last night because the Panthers left edge defence really couldn't handle him (not that we took advantage of it), but Garrick's lack of ground was the result of both his total lack of impact when hitting the line, and that he was given the ball in next to impossible situations by LG who made it obvious that he didn't want the ball.

When I say that we didn't take advantage of Siro's work last night.....please note who was the half on that side of the field.

 

[HoldenV8]

When we signed Kane Elgey last year I actually thought it was a good thing. A talented, somewhat experienced half who could come in and hopefully be the foil for DCE in the halves.

After seeing him in 11 of our 12 games so far in 2019.....I'm beginning to see why Tits fans didn't think much of LG.

 

[jbb/james]

Maybe blame should be on expectation. We had a short purple patch built on emotion. It was beautiful, but the constant injuries and continued expectation that these young bucks could go the distance based on emotion and a little desmond dust is hopeful. They are deveolping resolve and that generally doesnt come when winning

Raw emotion can not be counted on continually amongst such inexperience as even the most hardened players still batttle this week in

We look emotionaly tired and fair enough. They will dip and find another patch but we are not going to be standard top 4 after after a few brave wins together

Our front rowers didnt dent like they have been but i suspect des asked them to play 80 , knowing he didnt want to sub perrett so they paced themselves somewhat and i thought that showed.

Pasekas brief stint while encouraging, its fair to say from the blacktown games on telly he didnt get his spot on form and was probably part of the same mindset

Elgey does have limitations but its fair to say cust and elgys kicking game was on par with about 80% of our games in the past season and a half from way more fancied . Some defended those kicks last year

 

[Fluffy]

No use running for 20m ony to be dominated ... take 5 mins to get up and play the ball .... looks great in the stats , but doesn't win games ..sorry Bear, I respect your opinion and there is truth in it ..... but our forwards as a group were donkey-licked ...

I am 100% certain their pack walked off that field totally convinced they schooled us ... and they did ... our play the ball was so slow they all had time to get back and rush up and hit us again, and again and again ... and their missed tackles didn't hurt them because they always had 6 men in a tackle ... one missing didn't matter ...

PSS ... I would love somebody with plenty of time on their hands to get a stop watch and go over last nights game and time the average play the ball speeds for both teams ... if I am wrong I will apologise ...

Panfers 3.31s, Eagles 3.83s

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

One has to understand the mechanics of the game in order to fairly attribute blame when a loss occurs. Tossing up names like Garrick, Elliott, Taupau, and co. Is unfair.

Everything bad happening at the moment is entirely down to the halves. It sucks to have to say it because they are trying but one doesn’t have the ability to be the dominant half and the other is a rookie.

If you aren’t turning the opposition around with effective kicks, the forwards tire and struggle. The small backs then ruck it out against a fresh opposition pack and look ineffective. Mistakes creep in due to fatigue (see Elliott for example). Guys like Garrick get rag dolled and the backs are cramped for space.

The team then starts playing sideways because there is no space around the ruck because the opposition is winning it due to having more energy...so they push passes and go sideways out of frustration.

If we had DCE’s kicking game and direction the last two weeks, we win.

So let’s not bash the collateral damage when it’s down to ineffective halves. Outside of Jorge’s reserve grade standard play-the-balls, everything is a byproduct of poor kicking and direction.

Dont think we had 1 good kick all game.. cust also went away from walker all game until the end. We stuffed up big time we should had walker barbecuing Yeo all night instead he got off scott free... a big 2nd rower in the centers FMD. Jorge is a reserve grader end of hes slow lazy and has lost his power running game. Guys gone soft in mind and body. Elliot didn't chime in once as a link man to our backs thats why Marty threw that pass. Elliot should of been there yet.... then he drops the ball and cost us the game. Lg has proven now that he is not upto it. Cust showed promise and looked like foran with some of the runs he made.. he and dce will make a good combo especially if he can get his short kicking game right. Walker dce siro garrick will become the best right edge imho once they gaet a few games together. Paseka looked good he needs more game time.
Who goes to 13 snake? Or will jake be back after origin

 

[Mal Cochrane]

Would've won the game if we hadn't stupidly refused to kick 2 easy penalty goals in the 1st half. AND the message from the coach was to kick them. So WHO decided otherwise ???

Come on, let's stop thinking the exact same tries would have been if manly had taken some penalty attempts. The entire game would have changed from that point.

 

[Kevinward777]

I like Cust... it’s never just about how good a rookie performs when they are three games into a first grade career. Cade has had some wonderful moments, no doubt. He has also had some clangers, which is to be expected from such an inexperienced kid.

Many rookies will drop their heads and stop playing what’s in front of them after they make a few errors. The way Cade responded to adversity speaks volumes about the type of competitor that he is.

He has the skills, and whether it is on the Beaches or someplace else, i believe the kid will develop into a very handy player.