A lot of conjecture .. for no answers

[Snake]

He does weaken it ... you are looking at his runs ... watch again and look at the defensive side ... we start to lose the forward battle and field position, and not because Walker is not defending OK .. but because he's not a 115kg prop stopping them in their tracks ..

I made this for you...looks like he handled Tom Burgess just fine. It was one of the few times Souths kicked from deep inside their own half the entire game and Walker was directly responsible for it. It's fine though...we don't have to agree and I respect that you see things differently.

 

[Snake]

You would probably ignore that too.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

I have been very careful to state that I am just giving an opinion. At no point have I been rude, dismissive or ignorant towards anything contrary to my own thoughts on the topic so I am not sure what you're implying here.

I have also stated that I think the forwards have been an issue on many occasions this year but that doesn't necessarily equate to Walker being responsible for this issue. If anything, I believe he is one of the few forwards that can hang his head high. Again, just an opinion but please don't imply that I am deliberately ignorant and selective towards information that is presented to me.

 

[jbb/james]

The halves and all ball players including DCE, Foran, Jake, Walker, and Schu are all expotentially more potent playing with forward momentum against a retiring defense .. imagine how much more effective Walker's insertion would be if you didn't weaken that forward drive when you bring him on ..

i had also suggested that the timing of walkers replacement was more of a concern than him on the bench although i still would have preferred a more powerful bench, but we have had to adjust a little to accomadate

with schuster in the back row the team has too many ball players

my theory is that foran while effective, sees to little of the ball and that needs to change, and that cherry rarely engages the line with the intention to promote. with a defensive hooker and a sideways approach to footy we need someone to straighten the attack around the middle .enter walker with direct attack but we need more to come from the front line to worry defences just due to time. players that put themselves in half gaps to promote the ball to someone in a better position. in our starting side we have tom playing that role solo

when players in key positions dont handle the roles and responsibilities of those positions you need to adapt other players roles to compensate if that area of the game is important . jake at first receiver plays a similar patch up role at the expense of his own game. again its not that he plays this role rather the frequency and lack of variation

fainu would help this considerably on past form but we are probably 2023 before he is considered a weapon again

cherry brings a lot of good things but to beat the big boys we need to go next level and he isnt going to take us there if he continues to wait for tom to control the game. the game opens up for us every week when walker comes on because he is a footy player who likes to beat a man , loves it

 

[40 nil]

My worry is with Walker in the centers is he wouldn't pass to either Sanga or Wasabi.

I remember Akuila Uate saying Walker was the best centre he'd played outside. Walker provided four try assists for him in this game - first one at 1:23

 

[Arko-admirer]

The Dally Ms remind us that Walker was centre of the year in 2017... and I don't know that he has played there since (maybe once or twice). Obviously we have had other gaps that needed filling but I think it is time for him to go back to his natural position and stay there. Lawton can be our utility. The supersub thing has run its course and really why would we want a footballer as good as Walker to miss matchplay anyway? As for his defence well I remember it as being fine at centre but sadly Harper's decline in the semis means that, at worst, Walker is second best centre defender of the three candidates left for the position. The trouble is I think Des has a new idea and he doesn't give those up easily

 

[40 years an eagle]

Can you explain what you mean by this?

I have been very careful to state that I am just giving an opinion. At no point have I been rude, dismissive or ignorant towards anything contrary to my own thoughts on the topic so I am not sure what you're implying here.

I have also stated that I think the forwards have been an issue on many occasions this year but that doesn't necessarily equate to Walker being responsible for this issue. If anything, I believe he is one of the few forwards that can hang his head high. Again, just an opinion but please don't imply that I am deliberately ignorant and selective towards information that is presented to me.

Nothing bad mate, and I agree you have been very careful. What I meant was that you have stated that you don't see the correlation between replacing a career prop with a utility and the lack of domination of our pack. Maybe if you go through our games as I suggested you MAY then see that correlation. Some games we dominated, some games we held our own and some we were belted. Our loss to the Riff in Mudgee(?) we held our own although we didn't win.

 

[Snake]

Nothing bad mate, and I agree you have been very careful. What I meant was that you have stated that you don't see the correlation between replacing a career prop with a utility and the lack of domination of our pack. Maybe if you go through our games as I suggested you MAY then see that correlation. Some games we dominated, some games we held our own and some we were belted. Our loss to the Riff in Mudgee(?) we held our own although we didn't win.

I think that looking at one position on the bench during different games as an indicator of anything is simplifying the sheer number of variables that could account for why the forwards might hold their own one week and not the other. It will never be solely down to the squad that’s picked. For example, we thrashed the Cowboys, Titans and Roosters with Walker coming off the bench...but then you consider the quality of the opposition, completion rates and that’s barely scratching the surface.

As I said earlier, I’m not prepared to say emphatically that I’m right about this...it could be that Walker is the problem, I’m just seeing something entirely different but that’s footy!

 

[Woodsie]

I made this for you...looks like he handled Tom Burgess just fine. It was one of the few times Souths kicked from deep inside their own half the entire game and Walker was directly responsible for it. It's fine though...we don't have to agree and I respect that you see things differently.

Maaaate ... if the game was won on one 3 second play I would agree with you ... but then, I could make a clip showing him miss a tackle and claim he lost us the game ..

You seem fixated on Walker's performance as your justification ... I have now said 4 times that I think he plays the role well .. again, my point isn't about Walker, it is about playing a reduced power game in the middle V a lighter more mobile middle ... the individuals playing their parts is important, but it is the overall strategy as a game plan I am interested in ...

... and while it will entertain and thrill us ... I fear that against the top teams we will have our pants pulled down ...

 

[Rocky]

The Dally Ms remind us that Walker was centre of the year in 2017... and I don't know that he has played there since (maybe once or twice). Obviously we have had other gaps that needed filling but I think it is time for him to go back to his natural position and stay there. Lawton can be our utility. The supersub thing has run its course and really why would we want a footballer as good as Walker to miss matchplay anyway? As for his defence well I remember it as being fine at centre but sadly Harper's decline in the semis means that, at worst, Walker is second best centre defender of the three candidates left for the position. The trouble is I think Des has a new idea and he doesn't give those up easily

It's a good point. Considering our centres are seen as one of the weak points in the team why don't we consider playing Walker back there and giving him 80 minutes? I get that he was injured, out of form etc etc but he has proven that he is past that for now and he's attitude seems a lot better.

That means three big boppers and Lawton on the bench.

 

[Woodsie]

with schuster in the back row the team has too many ball players

my theory is that foran while effective, sees to little of the ball and that needs to change,

My theory .. without evidence ... is that the Schu's involvement is inversely proportional to Walker's involvement ... the more Dylan played, the less the Schu was involved ... and without the grunts getting forward momentum, when he did get the ball it was flat, with oncoming defense in his face ..

I suspect, but can't say positively that this is a consequence of the interchange policy ...

 

[Rocky]

My theory .. without evidence ... is that the Schu's involvement is inversely proportional to Walker's involvement ... the more Dylan played, the less the Schu was involved ... and without the grunts getting forward momentum, when he did get the ball it was flat, with oncoming defense in his face ..

I suspect, but can't say positively that this is a consequence of the interchange policy ...

I saw the same thing Woodsie - Walker played really well but at the same time we didn't have the necessary forward grunt and other ballplayers didn't seem to get the ball and went quiet. Are these related?

 

[Woodsie]

I saw the same thing Woodsie - Walker played really well but at the same time we didn't have the necessary forward grunt and other ballplayers didn't seem to get the ball and went quiet. Are these related?

Don't know ... but I suspect they are ... we only get so many possesions and if Walker is getting a lot .. someone has to get less ...

 

[Snake]

Maaaate ... if the game was won on one 3 second play I would agree with you ... but then, I could make a clip showing him miss a tackle and claim he lost us the game ..

You seem fixated on Walker's performance as your justification ... I have now said 4 times that I think he plays the role well .. again, my point isn't about Walker, it is about playing a reduced power game in the middle V a lighter more mobile middle ... the individuals playing their parts is important, but it is the overall strategy as a game plan I am interested in ...

... and while it will entertain and thrill us ... I fear that against the top teams we will have our pants pulled down ...

Yeah I am fixated on his performance because I would prefer to base my appraisal of the tactic on what Walker brings, not what a hypothetical extra forward might bring. If Walker was playing the role poorly, I would contemplate solutions, but I have never considered the idea that someone playing really well for us, could be a problem. Again, I take your point and I am not prepared to say it's invalid...you very well could be right.

 

[Snake]

I was thinking that this squad and this game plan took us to a prelim final so it's not as if heaps needs to change. In fact, it may even be that nothing needs to change, we just have to learn from the experience of the season and come back next year and execute better under pressure.

When you look at Penrith, they have an almost identical squad, minus Mansour and Tamou who were very good for them last year and they are in a GF again. If they win it, one could argue they were a better performed side last year (they won more games and cruised into the decider). When they lost the GF, they didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater and reinvent themselves to 'go one better'. I think they just saw it as a learning curve and have come back with determination and experience.

The same squad that has made two consecutive GFs were awful in 2019 and missed the finals. Same coach, very similar squad. I remember Dylan Edwards was absolutely awful. Moral of the story; it's not always about personnel and it's not always about tactics, it's often something intangible...we just might be better next year for no apparent reason. The same reason Souths finally won a prelim final after trying 4 times. Sometimes things just click!

 

[Woodsie]

Yeah I am fixated on his performance because I would prefer to base my appraisal of the tactic on what Walker brings, not what a hypothetical extra forward might bring. If Walker was playing the role poorly, I would contemplate solutions, but I have never considered the idea that someone playing really well for us, could be a problem.

Then you need to expand your imagination ... every players actions effect every other players actions ... and I am not saying this is the case, but 13 players playing as a team will always beat 13 players playing well as individuals ..

 

[Snake]

Then you need to expand your imagination ... every players actions effect every other players actions ... and I am not saying this is the case, but 13 players playing as a team will always beat 13 players playing well as individuals ..

For sure!

 

[Woodsie]

The same squad that has made two consecutive GFs were awful in 2019 and missed the finals. Same coach, very similar squad. I remember Dylan Edwards was absolutely awful. Moral of the story; it's not always about personnel and it's not always about tactics, it's often something intangible...we just might be better next year for no apparent reason. The same reason Souths finally won a prelim final after trying 4 times. Sometimes things just click!

Agree 100%

 

[George Rose's Butcher]

My worry is with Walker in the centers is he wouldn't pass to either Sanga or Wasabi. Each far more capable of scoring than himself. Walker dies with the ball.

i remember him putting uate over for some great tries

 

[mickqld]

I was thinking that this squad and this game plan took us to a prelim final so it's not as if heaps needs to change. In fact, it may even be that nothing needs to change, we just have to learn from the experience of the season and come back next year and execute better under pressure.

When you look at Penrith, they have an almost identical squad, minus Mansour and Tamou who were very good for them last year and they are in a GF again. If they win it, one could argue they were a better performed side last year (they won more games and cruised into the decider). When they lost the GF, they didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater and reinvent themselves to 'go one better'. I think they just saw it as a learning curve and have come back with determination and experience.

The same squad that has made two consecutive GFs were awful in 2019 and missed the finals. Same coach, very similar squad. I remember Dylan Edwards was absolutely awful. Moral of the story; it's not always about personnel and it's not always about tactics, it's often something intangible...we just might be better next year for no apparent reason. The same reason Souths finally won a prelim final after trying 4 times. Sometimes things just click!

Our issue was not winning the middle in the first 15 min against the top teams. The addition of Andrew Davey and Ethan Bullemore may help with this. The game is too fast to have 3 big props on the bench. We need better options from the #9 but that means getting Fainu back which is unlikely till August or at all. So how to change that situation. Is it feasible to continue with Schuster and Olakuatu as 80 min 2nd rowers or does one or both of them need to come on after 20 min to provide attack options after we've won the middle with workhorse hard bastard backrowers. I'd like to see Schuster lose about 10kg and play at 5/8 or move Walker to center and use Schuster in the #14 role. We have to concentrate on tightening our defense. We conceded far too many points this year. I'd rather see us winning games by 24 -12 rather than 46-26.

 

[40 years an eagle]

I think that looking at one position on the bench during different games as an indicator of anything is simplifying the sheer number of variables that could account for why the forwards might hold their own one week and not the other.

I don't see it as " one position on the bench" I see it as how that bench position is utilised.

Swapping out a starting prop with a bench utility if you are not winning, or at LEAST holding your own in the forwards battle doesn't bode well for gaining traction in that battle for the next 20 minutes.