A lot of conjecture .. for no answers

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Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
The Schuster and Walker threads have been alive with conjecture ... with at least 15 different positions for both, either recommended or demanded by us the the faithful ... and I am no closer to having a difinitive opinion now, as I was at the start ..

My problem is, that I am still not convinced that the experiment of having Walker come on as a middle forward at the first change will be an on going success .. sure .. as an individual performance, Walker has done well, and in many of the games against the lower sides sparked a fair bit of attack ...

But, replacing 2 props with one prop and Walker didn't work against Melb or Souths, whose packs just had a field day up the middle .. and schooled us on what finals footy in the forwards is about ...

The "experiment" in my opinion was worthwhile and valid .. and had qualifable success ... but is it sustainable ...

In my opinion NO ... piss it off ... get back to a more traditional power orientated middle ...
 
Totally agree re Walker.Maybe this season could help him with a move back to the centres given the extra defence he had to do.

Unfortunately it is very different type of defending ... in the middle you are dealing with big bodies coming straight at you .. in the centres you are dealing with not only the reading of 3/4 fast bodies in motion, but players who can step and move laterally ... they are chalk and cheese ..
 
Unfortunately it is very different type of defending ... in the middle you are dealing with big bodies coming straight at you .. in the centres you are dealing with not only the reading of 3/4 fast bodies in motion, but players who can step and move laterally ... they are chalk and cheese ..
Definitely but Walker has never had to make that many tackles in a season as he did this year and whilst centre is more about reading the play,it should be harder to throw him off a one on one tackle now,especially given he noticeably bulked up during this period.As for reading the situation in the defence at centre,that can be fixed with a good system and learning if there are problems
 
. As you said, Walker put in some good personal performances BUT our middle was very poor since Des started doing And Slippers should be on the bench.we paid dearly for him not being there.
Can see why Des kept Walker to this role, he was carving up sides at will at one stage, but not as much with the top 3 sides. Like you, thought Sipley would of got a bench spot for at least one of our last 2 games, anyway it's a real chinese puzzle for Des to work out for next years campaign.
 
walker & lawton on the bench plus 2 big fellas might work against some but i think des will have to go with a 'horses for courses' bench selection which would mean dropping either walker or lawton against some teams to play the extra big guy.
Against the stronger teams and even lesser teams with big packs I would go with 3 big guys and a utility...2 utilities is only really beneficial against weaker packs it seems. Sorry to keep repeating myself.
 
I think part of the problem is that he comes on and Jake is still playing in the middle,it is no knock on Jake,but Jake does not power up the guts like a true prop and our go forward dies against the top teams.
In saying that if you sub out Jake you lose defensive grunt around the middle.
I would not have any issue if Walker chose not to re-sign if a bigger offer was out there,however it is an awesome option to have in the right situation or game,just so hard to keep him on the bench against some teams and I don't think he deserves a starting position.
But do you drop a guy on decent money to reggies against certain teams?
I wonder if you could sub him in for a second rower and maybe have him play up the middle and shift a prop to the edge in attack and have Walker defend on the edge and have the prop defend in the middle........For this to happen mabe Schuster would be at 6 and Davey or Burbo or Lawton start on the edge and Walker subs in for them.
Thoughts,just thoughts......
 
I think part of the problem is that he comes on and Jake is still playing in the middle,it is no knock on Jake,but Jake does not power up the guts like a true prop and our go forward dies against the top teams.
In saying that if you sub out Jake you lose defensive grunt around the middle.
I would not have any issue if Walker chose not to re-sign if a bigger offer was out there,however it is an awesome option to have in the right situation or game,just so hard to keep him on the bench against some teams and I don't think he deserves a starting position.
But do you drop a guy on decent money to reggies against certain teams?
I wonder if you could sub him in for a second rower and maybe have him play up the middle and shift a prop to the edge in attack and have Walker defend on the edge and have the prop defend in the middle........For this to happen mabe Schuster would be at 6 and Davey or Burbo or Lawton start on the edge and Walker subs in for them.
Thoughts,just thoughts......

Exactly ... the answer is a pineapple ...

your observation with Jake is also exactly how I see it ... and given all the moving parts and variations you highlighted is why I prefer to go back to a more traditional power pack combination ... RL is a simple game played well ..
 
It's just an opinion so don't wanna start getting into an argument for having a contrary opinion but if I am honest, I just cannot see what others are seeing as a problem with the Walker role...I know there is every chance that I am wrong and you guys are right so I am not trying to sound arrogant, but I honestly don't get it.

To me, he was our best player against Melbourne and Souths. I thought he was the only player on Friday night that tried to lift us...his line speed was easily the best of any of our forwards. There was a set in the first half where he made 4 tackles in a row, shooting up off the line and inspiring his teammates. I think he has caused all sorts of concerns for the opposition with his speed and footwork in the middle of the field and I've loved his short and long passing around the middle of the ruck.

I believe he is one of the big success stories of our season and I hope he stays in the role permanently. I also don't think the failings of those around him should be grounds for appraisal of his role; if he is playing wonderful individual performances, to my logic, he is doing his job.
 
Exactly ... the answer is a pineapple ...

your observation with Jake is also exactly how I see it ... and given all the moving parts and variations you highlighted is why I prefer to go back to a more traditional power pack combination ... RL is a simple game played well ..
However.... if with all the dummy halves in our coaching ranks ....he could be coached and developed to play dummy half he would be the best number 14 in the world lol.
I would be ok with him as 14 and have 3 true forwards on the bench,you could shift Foran to 9 and move Schuster to 6 if the dummy half got injured,don't know that having a darting dummy half off the bench is all that useful anymore anyway.
 
It's just an opinion so don't wanna start getting into an argument for having a contrary opinion but if I am honest, I just cannot see what others are seeing as a problem with the Walker role...I know there is every chance that I am wrong and you guys are right so I am not trying to sound arrogant, but I honestly don't get it.

To me, he was our best player against Melbourne and Souths. I thought he was the only player on Friday night that tried to lift us...his line speed was easily the best of any of our forwards. There was a set in the first half where he made 4 tackles in a row, shooting up off the line and inspiring his teammates. I think he has caused all sorts of concerns for the opposition with his speed and footwork in the middle of the field and I've loved his short and long passing around the middle of the ruck.

I believe he is one of the big success stories of our season and I hope he stays in the role permanently. I also don't think the failings of those around him should be grounds for appraisal of his role; if he is playing wonderful individual performances, to my logic, he is doing his job.

It is a 13 man game .. saying one player played well is irrelevant, if his role in the teamwork does not make the team play better ...

This is not about Walker, I acknowledged in the intro he goes well in the role ... but the tactic of taking off 2 props and bringing on a playmaker and moving Jake to prop has not worked when it was really needed IMO ....

It is that tactic that I don't like ..
 
Walker back to centre. He is more than capable of passing outside or inside to Tommy. His D has improved since being 14. Get his speed up again over the off season

Schuster to 5/8th - let the kid do what he is good at - ball playing.

3 Big boppers on the bench + Lawton/Foran

Worse that can happen is we lose our first 4 matches.
 
It's just an opinion so don't wanna start getting into an argument for having a contrary opinion but if I am honest, I just cannot see what others are seeing as a problem with the Walker role...I know there is every chance that I am wrong and you guys are right so I am not trying to sound arrogant, but I honestly don't get it.

To me, he was our best player against Melbourne and Souths. I thought he was the only player on Friday night that tried to lift us...his line speed was easily the best of any of our forwards. There was a set in the first half where he made 4 tackles in a row, shooting up off the line and inspiring his teammates. I think he has caused all sorts of concerns for the opposition with his speed and footwork in the middle of the field and I've loved his short and long passing around the middle of the ruck.

I believe he is one of the big success stories of our season and I hope he stays in the role permanently. I also don't think the failings of those around him should be grounds for appraisal of his role; if he is playing wonderful individual performances, to my logic, he is doing his job.
Personally I think he’s been a revelation in his new role.
 
I think part of the problem is that he comes on and Jake is still playing in the middle,it is no knock on Jake,but Jake does not power up the guts like a true prop and our go forward dies against the top teams.
This is how I see it too. Jake doesn't move to prop when Walker comes on, he plays the same role he was already playing, so we are short a real prop. Our middle has been like tissue since Des started doing this and we have only had the go-forward of 1 prop and 1 prop in defence.
 
The Schuster and Walker threads have been alive with conjecture ... with at least 15 different positions for both, either recommended or demanded by us the the faithful ... and I am no closer to having a difinitive opinion now, as I was at the start ..

My problem is, that I am still not convinced that the experiment of having Walker come on as a middle forward at the first change will be an on going success .. sure .. as an individual performance, Walker has done well, and in many of the games against the lower sides sparked a fair bit of attack ...

But, replacing 2 props with one prop and Walker didn't work against Melb or Souths, whose packs just had a field day up the middle .. and schooled us on what finals footy in the forwards is about ...

The "experiment" in my opinion was worthwhile and valid .. and had qualifable success ... but is it sustainable ...

In my opinion NO ... piss it off ... get back to a more traditional power orientated middle .
Not Walkers fault we don't win the middle in the first 15-20mins against the top teams or we look tense, nervous and overly frantic in attack until we score our first try.

If we had Sipley on the bench it would of been worse, you need spark, thrust, power with speed as options on the bench of varying sizes.(to help swing or create momentum)

Interchanges should be an "injection" that lifts not more of the same plodders.

Yes Sipley has his moments "when it is a flat deck" but when Manly are already struggling and not winning the middle he is going to make f^&k all difference but probably compound the problem when he comes on.
 
It is a 13 man game .. saying one player played well is irrelevant, if his role in the teamwork does not make the team play better ...

This is not about Walker, I acknowledged in the intro he goes well in the role ... but the tactic of taking off 2 props and bringing on a playmaker and moving Jake to prop has not worked when it was really needed IMO ....

It is that tactic that I don't like ..
You can either look at Jake as one of the problems in terms of being a plodder or an advantage of having a high tackle high work rate steady player saving an interchange.

To me the better balance would be to improve the work rate,fitness of all other current players in the squad(or add/replace players that will give this benefit ) so we don't require a Jake and improve the fitness and defensive abilities of a player like a Walker to take up his role in the starting line up.

Jake is not going to give you thrust up the middle if we are not winning the middle, Jake as a linkman is going to be ineffective if we don't win the middle, so we have to have someone on the bench that can spark and create a momentum swing beyond three or four hitups then too tired to do anything else for the next 15mins.
 
Team P W L PD Pts
3 3 0 48 6
4 3 1 28 6
3 2 1 10 6
4 2 2 39 4
3 2 1 28 4
3 2 1 15 4
3 2 1 14 4
2 1 1 13 4
2 1 1 6 4
3 2 1 -3 4
3 1 2 0 2
3 1 2 -5 2
3 1 2 -15 2
3 1 2 -22 2
3 1 2 -36 2
2 0 2 -56 2
3 0 3 -64 0
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