2v to blame

[Snake]

Get yourself a bucket precious if it ain't fixed you'll have another season of this dribble.

Come on man, blaming a club legend who captained us to premiership, and had his face rearranged in numerous grand finals, simply because we lost a semi-final against a raging hot opposition with a host of injuries against us, is pretty weak.

We'd all cop it if that was all - but look back at the last half dozen plus matches. Even at close to full strength we have been ****e,

At full strength, we are still light on in the forwards. We overachieved this year in the preliminary rounds. Our pack is a bottom of the eight contender at best. The other teams lifted towards the end of the year, and we have struggled to go with them. Outside of Choc and Gifty (who was missing anyway), it's just not strong enough in comparison to Souths and the Roosters.

Lui, Sene-Lefao, Starling, Symonds, Horo, Hasson, and a 33 year old Jason King...you do the math.

Spot on Snake. This is the reality, nothing to do with Toovs. The salary cap has taken it's toll on us, it's bound to happen sooner or later. We have some tough decissions to make in regards to recruitment/retention. Do we throw the kitchen sink at Foran and DCE and be another cowboys where all our money is spent on a couple and then skinny in other positions.

In 2011 we won the comp with a strong forward pack and a pair of rookie halves. As there value goes up, it makes it harder to recruit in other key areas.

As for last night, our kick chase was horrid. They made so many line breaks. The leaders in defence in the kick chase is always Ballin and Buhrer. We missed them alot.

Agree. The backended deals meant that we couldn't strengthen our forward stocks over the pre-season, and that was compounded by losing Fa'aoso and Galuvao.

 

[pjayz]

These things happen when you cant field a full strength team against a massive pack like Souths

So you are saying we lose 3 players and we should be down 40 nil? I remember a game i think it was 1991 or 92 a semi against Canberra with injured players everywhere yet we played a tremendous game we lost but played with pride. Kevin Iro played about his only great game for us in the match. Injuries are no excuse for our form.

Yes i am. 3 crucial players out will stuff the dynamics of your team everytime. Scorelines can blow out when a team gets a roll on. We got smashed, Toovs can only do so much against a massive pack like Souths. Its not a huge surprise and doesnt mean Toovs should 'take blame'

Penrith have about 7 out, including their half-back, and they made top 4. The issue is that our edge defence and ruck defence is terrible. Toovey kept blaming completion rates for our losses, but our completions were very good last night - we can make adjustments, he just isn't making them.

I'm not saying that injuries don't play a part, but the moment you start blaming them for your performances, is the moment you lose sight of the deeper issues and focus on finding excuses.

Yes we have had a good year, but great teams like this one, want to win every game and want to take out the premiership, otherwise there is no point playing in the NRL.

 

[rifraff]

Ballins kick chase was missed so friggin much

 

[Snake]

Come on man, blaming a club legend who captained us to premiership, and had his face rearranged in numerous grand finals, simply because we lost a semi-final against a raging hot opposition with a host of injuries against us, is pretty weak.

We'd all cop it if that was all - but look back at the last half dozen plus matches. Even at close to full strength we have been ****e,

At full strength, we are still light on in the forwards. We overachieved this year in the preliminary rounds. Our pack is a bottom of the eight contender at best. The other teams lifted towards the end of the year, and we have struggled to go with them. Outside of Choc and Gifty (who was missing anyway), it's just not strong enough in comparison to Souths and the Roosters.

Lui, Sene-Lefao, Starling, Symonds, Horo, Hasson, and a 33 year old Jason King...you do the math.

Spot on Snake. This is the reality, nothing to do with Toovs. The salary cap has taken it's toll on us, it's bound to happen sooner or later. We have some tough decissions to make in regards to recruitment/retention. Do we throw the kitchen sink at Foran and DCE and be another cowboys where all our money is spent on a couple and then skinny in other positions.

In 2011 we won the comp with a strong forward pack and a pair of rookie halves. As there value goes up, it makes it harder to recruit in other key areas.

As for last night, our kick chase was horrid. They made so many line breaks. The leaders in defence in the kick chase is always Ballin and Buhrer. We missed them alot.

Melbourne have done very well basing their team around the big three and supporting them with journeymen but it seems to me that those three positions cover more of a team's needs: fullback, half, hooker. We're talking two halves. To me, that's what makes it really skinny.

You hear this quite often regarding Melbourne, but the reality is, they still have representative quality in their pack - Hoffman (State of Origin player of the series this year), Smith (AUS), Bromwich (NZ), Proctor (NZ), Hinchcliffe (Country Origin), Tohu Harris (NZ), and previously had Manu (NZ), Ryles (Aus), Blair (NZ). In the backs they have Slater (Aus), Cronk (Aus), Chambers (QLD), and previously Widdop (ENG), plus lightening speed in Waqa and Koroibete. That's a fair roster that finished 6th this year as opposed to second.

I agree that we probably can only afford one half moving forward if we want our pack to compete. I'll have Foran.

 

[Moops]

Toovey needs to get the team he wants. Me thinks there are a few players not playing for him...

 

[Mavin]

Toovey needs to get the team he wants. Me thinks there are a few players not playing for him...

This is an important point from now on Toovey should have the call about what if any players are released. I would also give DCE and Foz a deadline for re signing we offer them the best we can. Who ever commits first (hopefully both) we all get behind and with the extra cash can add a few new forwards to help out. If we don't sort out deals next year will turn into a nightmare with these negotiations.

 

[Central Coast Eagle]

Come on man, blaming a club legend who captained us to premiership, and had his face rearranged in numerous grand finals, simply because we lost a semi-final against a raging hot opposition with a host of injuries against us, is pretty weak.

We'd all cop it if that was all - but look back at the last half dozen plus matches. Even at close to full strength we have been ****e,

At full strength, we are still light on in the forwards. We overachieved this year in the preliminary rounds. Our pack is a bottom of the eight contender at best. The other teams lifted towards the end of the year, and we have struggled to go with them. Outside of Choc and Gifty (who was missing anyway), it's just not strong enough in comparison to Souths and the Roosters.

Lui, Sene-Lefao, Starling, Symonds, Horo, Hasson, and a 33 year old Jason King...you do the math.

That's the problem IMHO, everybody knew souths were going to try and go straight through us and when Hasson (a player that has been part of the "prop" rotation most of the year) pulled out he replaced him with a centre/winger.

You can't seriously believe we missed Hassons impact?

No but we missed the impact of a forward.

 

[niccipops]

Toovey is not to blame. He was bought in as caretaker coach after the de$aster. He was thrust into the role he might not yet have been ready for and has done our club proud. Remember we weren't going make the 8 once de$ left? Look where Tooves has taken us so far.
In 2014 he's had a lot to contend with as a coach. The team finished equal first. They have been rocked by injury at the worst time of the year. The injury to Hodges contributed a lot to our early demise last night.
Also if you put Manly and Souths on the scales, souths would have had about a whole extra human or two in weight on the field.
Souths, Melbourne, chooks and doggies have changed the way this game us played. Tooves will adjust to compete with this but we just don't have the bodies to put on the line this year. Matt Ballin and Jamie Buhrer injuries is why we are sliding at the moment.
In Tooves I firmly trust.

 

[Shoe1]

Yep, key injuries, yep players including dce lawrence and taufua playing with injuries. Dce obviously can't take on the line at present.

I think it is time to bring in a few more guys. Blair improved things a little last night. Gutho needs to be out there too.

With turbo injured too I don't think tooves has any other forwards at his disposal.

 

[10yr dominance]

Toovey might be a club legend and passionate , but his coaching ability will be shown once this crop of champions move on.
Don't like these signs that are appearing though
Without going through all these signs lets just look at 1 eg where injuries don't play a role.
Twice we have played souths in the last month, not once did we put any high pressure kicks to lote.
There's more but I'm laying back and blaming the injuries for now

 

[anthonyb1965]

Toovey might be a club legend and passionate , but his coaching ability will be shown once this crop of champions move on.
Don't like these signs that are appearing though
Without going through all these signs lets just look at 1 eg where injuries don't play a role.
Twice we have played souths in the last month, not once did we put any high pressure kicks to lote.
There's more but I'm laying back and blaming the injuries for now

Really?

Keep laying back! Please!

 

[rifraff]

When is Ricky Stuart off contract? Would he go better?

 

[Ryan]

What's Toovey's track record in finals and big games? I'm talking about finals, and The WCC. I'm a stats man, so lets talk results and stats only.

2012: Loss 1 WCC (Leeds), Loss 1 (Bulldogs), Won 1 (Cowboys), Loss 1 (Storm)
2013: Loss 1 (Roosters), Won 1 (Sharks), Won 1 (Souths), Loss 1 (Chooks)
2014: Loss 1 (Souths)

What do I take from that?

9 games. Win 3, Loss 6
Hasn't won a first game of the finals ever? Preparation? But what were the results?

Manly vs. Rhino's (Lost 26-12)
Manly vs. Dogs (Lost 16-10)
Manly vs. Cowboys (Won 22-12)
Manly vs. Storm (Lost 40-12)
Manly vs. Chooks (Lost 4-0)
Manly vs. Sharks (Won 24-18)
Manly vs. Souths (Won 30-20)
Manly vs. Chooks (Lost 26-18)
Manly vs. Souths (Lost 40-24)

9 games, 152 points FOR (or an average of 16.8 points per game)
9 games, 202 points against (or an average of 22.44 points against per game)

Win percentage: 33.33% winning ratio
Losing percentage: 66.66% losing ratio

Thought's? End of the day, results do the talking, but please also bare in ind the wonderful season proper job Toovey does. Results for a FULL season:

In 2012, Toovey won 17 of 27 games - wins 62% of games
In 2013, Toovey won 17 of 28 games - wins 60% of games
In 2014, Toovey won 16 of 25 (so far) - wins 64% of games

Pretty consistent. Wins just over half his games.

Thoughts?

 

[Masked Eagle]

What's Toovey's track record in finals and big games? I'm talking about finals, and The WCC. I'm a stats man, so lets talk results and stats only.

2012: Loss 1 WCC (Leeds), Loss 1 (Bulldogs), Won 1 (Cowboys), Loss 1 (Storm)
2013: Loss 1 (Roosters), Won 1 (Sharks), Won 1 (Souths), Loss 1 (Chooks)
2014: Loss 1 (Souths)

What do I take from that?

9 games. Win 3, Loss 6
Hasn't won a first game of the finals ever? Preparation? But what were the results?

Manly vs. Rhino's (Lost 26-12)
Manly vs. Dogs (Lost 16-10)
Manly vs. Cowboys (Won 22-12)
Manly vs. Storm (Lost 40-12)
Manly vs. Chooks (Lost 4-0)
Manly vs. Sharks (Won 24-18)
Manly vs. Souths (Won 30-20)
Manly vs. Chooks (Lost 26-18)
Manly vs. Souths (Lost 40-24)

9 games, 152 points FOR (or an average of 16.8 points per game)
9 games, 202 points against (or an average of 22.44 points against per game)

Win percentage: 33.33% winning ratio
Losing percentage: 66.66% losing ratio

Thought's? End of the day, results do the talking, but please also bare in ind the wonderful season proper job Toovey does. Results for a FULL season:

In 2012, Toovey won 17 of 27 games - wins 62% of games
In 2013, Toovey won 17 of 28 games - wins 60% of games
In 2014, Toovey won 16 of 25 (so far) - wins 64% of games

Pretty consistent. Wins just over half his games.

Thoughts?

I think its proves that stats can mean very little. They don't show we were robbed in the GF last year.

I doubt any other coach would have gotten better results, let alone been able to keep the club together with what Tooves has had to guide this club through in the last 3 years.

 

[globaleagle]

choc says players win matches....not coaches!

 

[Moops]

The title of this thread makes me sick to the stomach. Have some respect.

Get yourself a bucket precious if it ain't fixed you'll have another season of this dribble.

Come on man, blaming a club legend who captained us to premiership, and had his face rearranged in numerous grand finals, simply because we lost a semi-final against a raging hot opposition with a host of injuries against us, is pretty weak.

We'd all cop it if that was all - but look back at the last half dozen plus matches. Even at close to full strength we have been ****e,

I call bull****. A few players are not playing for him and they need to go...

 

[Jerry1]

Maybe so - it's up to the coach to fix it up.
Nobody else can do it. He needs to act.

 

[Moops]

Maybe so - it's up to the coach to fix it up.
Nobody else can do it. He needs to act.

He has tried but the other players decided to act like children. See: Glenn Stewart.

He is the coordinator of Brookvale Goodstart Learning Centre (childcare centre)

 

[Jerry1]

Maybe so - it's up to the coach to fix it up.
Nobody else can do it. He needs to act.

He has tried but the other players decided to act like children. See: Glenn Stewart.

He is the coordinator of Brookvale Goodstart Learning Centre (childcare centre)

If he can't fo it then we need someone else who can.

 

[Moops]

Maybe so - it's up to the coach to fix it up.
Nobody else can do it. He needs to act.

He has tried but the other players decided to act like children. See: Glenn Stewart.

He is the coordinator of Brookvale Goodstart Learning Centre (childcare centre)

If he can't fo it then we need someone else who can.

Let's see if the board has the balls to support him. I hope they haven't lost their nerve. At the end of the day, he doesn't have total control, but, as I keep saying, I feel he wants his own team without being held back by some of the divas, but is trying very hard to be diplomatic.