WITHOUT SALARY CAP

[Bearfax]

The salary cap ( and TPAs) are a joke offering the richer clubs a free ride to premiership and therefore more money. A more equitable system needs to be found. After discussing the matter with a few mates, and mindful that the draft cant be used because of legal constraints, one option that seemed to show promise and has been discussed often before is a points system for graded players. This makes no attempt to discuss the maximum number of players allowed to be graded to play first grade but only to give players ratings. Of course players may raise their rating during the year but I would suggest a club wouldn't need to adjust their graded players until years end.

I was thinking something along this line in points

1. A newly graded player to first grade for their first 2 years unless gaining representation
2. Graded players over two years and players, even those representing, graded for the one club continuously over 6 years
3. Rep players no longer selected in SOO for three years . Players having played less than 3 SOO and no tests . Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, PNG players having last played tests over 3 years ago
4. Former test player, who hasn't played a test in over 3 years. Current Fiji, PNG, Samoa, Tonga test player
5, Current SOO having played 3 or more games. Test player less than 3 games, Aust, NZ Eng.
6. Current test player with 3 or more test appearances Aust, NZ, Eng.

Then say there is a maximum of 60 points per club. This of course would mean clubs without reps could have more players graded but only as a year by year proposition. Clubs with large rep group would have to be careful to ensure they have enough lower ranked players to stay within the accepted range, thereby ensuring greater spread of talent. They can pay them what they like, but they are limited by how many top players they can keep.

What's the thoughts and are there other alternatives.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Points system has merit, however I think the points allocated at the time they sign need to stay in place for the duration of the players contract. Making it a season to season proposition makes it too hard to balance. If you sign an up and comer to a 3 year deal and he goes rep in his first year then you get the benefit of the discount for the following seasons. Flipside is that if you have a SOO/International on your books and he drops in form then you have to carry that. It's just like the salary cap but instead of dollars you are balancing points over multiple contracts / multiple seasons. I'm also a fan of discounts for long serving or locally produced talent.

The point rankings for players would have to be independently assessed and clearly published at regular intervals, start of season, post origin and post season.

Not sure it stops the domination of the richer clubs though as they would just pay overs for the best players in each category and still assemble a great squad. At least the salary cap keeps some equality between the teams from a financial perspective. If they want to truly even the competition then get rid of TPA's, everyone knows they are rorted.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I’ve long been the advocate for a points system.

It seems the most logical way to better spread the talent around and give every club the ability to attract top players.

Also would mean no one club could stack all the good players into one side.

Not sure what’s best but the current one is broken.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Points system has merit, however I think the points allocated at the time they sign need to stay in place for the duration of the players contract. Making it a season to season proposition makes it too hard to balance. If you sign an up and comer to a 3 year deal and he goes rep in his first year then you get the benefit of the discount for the following seasons. Flipside is that if you have a SOO/International on your books and he drops in form then you have to carry that. It's just like the salary cap but instead of dollars you are balancing points over multiple contracts / multiple seasons. I'm also a fan of discounts for long serving or locally produced talent.

The point rankings for players would have to be independently assessed and clearly published at regular intervals, start of season, post origin and post season.

Not sure it stops the domination of the richer clubs though as they would just pay overs for the best players in each category and still assemble a great squad. At least the salary cap keeps some equality between the teams from a financial perspective. If they want to truly even the competition then get rid of TPA's, everyone knows they are rorted.

Yes agree about the rating staying the same for the life of the contract regardless.

 

[Bearfax]

Points system has merit, however I think the points allocated at the time they sign need to stay in place for the duration of the players contract. Making it a season to season proposition makes it too hard to balance. If you sign an up and comer to a 3 year deal and he goes rep in his first year then you get the benefit of the discount for the following seasons. Flipside is that if you have a SOO/International on your books and he drops in form then you have to carry that. It's just like the salary cap but instead of dollars you are balancing points over multiple contracts / multiple seasons. I'm also a fan of discounts for long serving or locally produced talent.

The point rankings for players would have to be independently assessed and clearly published at regular intervals, start of season, post origin and post season.

Not sure it stops the domination of the richer clubs though as they would just pay overs for the best players in each category and still assemble a great squad. At least the salary cap keeps some equality between the teams from a financial perspective. If they want to truly even the competition then get rid of TPA's, everyone knows they are rorted.

Trouble with the TPA is that there is no way to ensure that players aren't being paid on the side. Its a rort but I think limiting the number of points a particular player warrants and the total a club can have would in many ways make TPAs or backroom deals, less effective. Interesting point about the points being determined on contract day. Has merits.

 

[Harvies elbow]

Has merit.
You can bet the rorters, scum and boncos would argue against it.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Has merit.
You can bet the rorters, scum and boncos would argue against it.

Plus Greenslime and Beatnix

 

[Kevinward777]

Certainly worth serious consideration, and would definitely provide a much fairer system... unfortunately, it is very apparent that the current administration has zero interest in creating a balanced competition.

 

[Class of 96]

and mindful that the draft cant be used because of legal constraints

This one I find perplexing. The AFL have no problem holding a national draft. I find it incredible to believe the NRL deem it illegal, but the AFL do not.

 

[Jethro]

This one I find perplexing. The AFL have no problem holding a national draft. I find it incredible to believe the NRL deem it illegal, but the AFL do not.

You can blame Terry Hill for that for taking it to court and winning as it was found to be a restraint of trade.

 

[Class of 96]

You can blame Terry Hill for that for taking it to court and winning as it was found to be a restraint of trade.

I get that, but how can a court of law rule differently for each code?

 

[Harvies elbow]

I get that, but how can a court of law rule differently for each code?

They probably would rule it illegal if someone took the afl to court.
But they seem to accept it as part of the deal.

 

[Class of 96]

They probably would rule it illegal if someone took the afl to court.
But they seem to accept it as part of the deal.

Not sure mate. They are pretty cagey, and greedy the player managers. Imagine being the #1 draft choice, and being rated the best in a generation, then being sent to the perennial wooden spooner’s Carlton. They should be arcing up. And yes, this actually did happen.

 

[Chip and Chase]

I get that, but how can a court of law rule differently for each code?

AFL Players association agree to it, that's the difference. If they wanted to challenge it then it would produce the same outcome as the NRL's attempt I suspect

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Not sure about a points system on its own. That could make clubs put pressure on players to bypass rep footy for extra cash for example. Clubs and managers will always horse trade and attempt to rort the system.

There would need to be a money/cap part of the deal as well.

No TPA what so ever and any club shown to or proven to be handing out paper bags of cash are delt with soundly. I'm talking huge fines loss of points and stripped of anything won. There would need to be a division set up looking at all deals and the like without bias.

A draft system could work if clubs were allowed to keep say 2 jokers per year on under 18 players. If you have a Tommy turbo or the like coming through that you have nurtured then you get to keep them. However all the extra talent would be dispersed throughout the comp.

It's a messy situation that will never be sorted.

 

[DUFFMAN]

Rich clubs would find a way around it.
Some up and coming star playing for us not far away from an origin call up on $500,000 a year. Rooster sign him for $1,000,000 as long as he declares himself unavailable for rep footy, Most players dream about playing rep footy but money talks.
Maybe if you are picked and say you are unavailable you are still considered worth those points.
Jamie Lyon made it clear he never wanted to play, in this case, you are picked but not available but you are still worth the rep points. Clears that 1 loophole of many clubs would find.

The first thing needed is to get rid of the third party crap.

 

[Jigzkiller]

I'm a no salary cap guy and we sink or swim. As a player I would never accept a cap as I wouldn't tolerate one in my current employment.If the only thing that keeps us in the comp is a salary cap we have very little future.

 

[Budgie]

Good idea but might need adjustments around positions. An origin half would have to be worth more points than an origin centre?

 

[Bearfax]

Good idea but might need adjustments around positions. An origin half would have to be worth more points than an origin centre?

If you have some ideas in that regard Budgie, please express them. I really think the supporters should be forwarding ideas and attempting to demand a dismantling of the salary cap debacle and something like a points system introduced. The combined minds of this forum can surely come up with something far better than what we have and perhaps pass on the idea to other teams forums. Nothing will change unless these turkeys in charge are pressured.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I'm a no salary cap guy and we sink or swim. As a player I would never accept a cap as I wouldn't tolerate one in my current employment.If the only thing that keeps us in the comp is a salary cap we have very little future.

The trouble with that is just like the ESL, there’s only about 3 sides who ever win.......why, because they have all the best players.