Walker cleared to play.

[yokahontas]

Its my opinion, and shoot me, down but I wont change it and i will make no further comment.

Walker should of be sacked months ago, witnesses seen what happened, and I dont give a hoot if he is guilty according to the court or not. For god sake a grown man even raising his voice at woman over an xbox is more than enough for me.

Not the type I wan't associated with my club. Watch the Roosters snap him up.

As for De Belin/Hayne/ that Bronco forward bloke I dont care what happens, every grub in the world can play for the Dragons or any other team, for all I care. Just keep them away from Manly., we should be setting the example and leading the way.

As for the image of the game, this argument a load of bs. If the NRL cared about its image Greenburg would never been appointed in the first place.

As you were.




I

Agreed. We should have a firm ‘no dickheads’ policy, and stick to it. If every club did that, we wouldn’t even be having this argument. They’d either learn not to be dickheads, or go dig ditches for a living.

 

[Bearfax]

but never punished

One of the flaws in the Law is that those falsely accusing someone and having them dragged through the court, walk away untouched when the accused is found not guilty

 

[Bearfax]

Its my opinion, and shoot me, down but I wont change it and i will make no further comment.

Walker should of be sacked months ago, witnesses seen what happened, and I dont give a hoot if he is guilty according to the court or not. For god sake a grown man even raising his voice at woman over an xbox is more than enough for me.

Not the type I wan't associated with my club. Watch the Roosters snap him up.

As for De Belin/Hayne/ that Bronco forward bloke I dont care what happens, every grub in the world can play for the Dragons or any other team, for all I care. Just keep them away from Manly., we should be setting the example and leading the way.

As for the image of the game, this argument a load of bs. If the NRL cared about its image Greenburg would never been appointed in the first place.

As you were.




I

Again Bob you are basing your comments on what has been reported and not what you've seen. This is where the Stewart matter brought out the public feeding frenzy because so many were prepared to believe the testimony of the young woman, without knowing the full facts. As for shouting at someone over an X Box being justification for sacking a player, I'm assuming that was a tongue in cheek comment. There are very few relationships where couples don't shout at each other with at times hurtful comments in the heat of the moment often over issues no less insignificant. I live in a block of units and there are a few couples who at times I fear will get into a physical brawl. Yes men treat women on occasion with shameful behaviour and violence. I've seen it the other way around also with women literally throwing plates at their husband (one was a work colleague) and only luck resulted in no serious physical damage. I pointed out the numbers of DV matters at Bankstown court on a weekly basis. That's no over estimation. I counted the court lists. Unfortunately in relationships there are always going to be crisis issues. But usually they are momentary, the couple settle down and they move on, or they separate. Its far more common than any of us want to believe but we are all prone to lose it, as demonstrated on some of the disputes on these forums. Physical altercations are not as common, but certainly not uncommon and usually most of us will never hear about them.

 

[cherry_poppins]

One of the flaws in the Law is that those falsely accusing someone and having them dragged through the court, walk away untouched when the accused is found not guilty

I know not guilty is not guilty but in that case out couldn't be more emphatic and clear it was all about money or fraud

There should be compensation

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

One of the flaws in the Law is that those falsely accusing someone and having them dragged through the court, walk away untouched when the accused is found not guilty

Our criminal justice system still is founded on a presumption of innocence. An accused person doesn't have to prove anything, it's up to the prosecution to prove their case and they have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
A finding of not guilty is not a finding of innocence.
It doesn't mean that the accuser lied. It simply means the prosecution have not discharged their burden of proof, so the prosecution fails, and the presumption of innocence stands.
If witnesses are seriously believed to have lied they certainly can be charged with perjury or attempting to pervert the course of justice. But that also would have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt, not always easy.

 

[HappilyManly]

I know not guilty is not guilty but in that case out couldn't be more emphatic and clear it was all about money or fraud

There should be compensation

Pretty sure that Snake sued and won compo from the papers.

The fraudster was some bankrupt so it would not have been viable to sue him in a civil case

 

[brad]

I'm out of loop with this thread, but I'll answer respectfully Brad so it hopefully puts you and I back on track, because frankly, I'm over the spat. It's schoolyard crap beneath the BOTH of us, and I take responsibility for my part.

I "think" you are referring to The Broncos team listed?

Honestly, I think we match up well against them. Here's why:

8 through 13 I think we outclass them. I consider AFB, and Taupau the elite 2 props as a combo in the entire NRL. I'd challenge anyone to list two starting props better.

Fainu is young and learning, but we have API returning soon I hope.

Thompson, Sironen and Trbojevic..well...speaks for itself. Outstanding.

Elgey and DCE, again, I think we have them covered in the halves department.

In a trial, benches are benches flooded with depth. I'm calling that a wash. Even with Tanginoa and Paseka out.

The backline. Any team losing Tom Trbojevic, is losing a whole heap in talent. Jorge Taufua looked solid last week. Reuben Garrick I'm very excited about. Walker should be in.

That's 3 put of 5 very solid pieces . So, it's a fullback, and a winger that will hurt us. If Des can come up with a plan to shield those positions , or say one of Elliott, Parker, Suli, Anderson, Funa, Kioa or whoever step up, it'll be much closer than people think.

Like I say mate, we match up well against The Broncos in my view.

I wouldn't say The Broncos would put 50 on us. I think it would be a closer game, 8 points either way in it win / lose.

We need to play in and through the middle. We need to shut down their speedsters and skilled players out wide with starch , fast moving defense, giving them little time.

Anyways Brad, that's my thoughts against The Broncos team if that's what you are talking about.

All good mate , we all get a little over the top sometimes. A lurking mate of mine threw his team in to stir things up for me abit , all in good fun . I agree with you and think our side matches them apart from losing Tom a winger and centre . I'm more pissed at Walker for the situation he has left us in but we will bounce out of it and have some good kids coming through. Yer and I'm sorry for my part in our stoush mate.

 

[Woodsie]

Our criminal justice system still is founded on a presumption of innocence. An accused person doesn't have to prove anything, it's up to the prosecution to prove their case and they have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
A finding of not guilty is not a finding of innocence.
It doesn't mean that the accuser lied. It simply means the prosecution have not discharged their burden of proof, so the prosecution fails, and the presumption of innocence stands.
If witnesses are seriously believed to have lied they certainly can be charged with perjury or attempting to pervert the course of justice. But that also would have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt, not always easy.

Interesting fact .....

In Scotland, being a canny race, there are 3 possible verdicts in a Court case .. Guilty, Innocent and "case not proven" ....

 

[tookey]

I'd still like to see that father gutted and hung somewhere at a feminist rally

Sending him to a feminists rally is a bit harsh

 

[globaleagle]

All good mate , we all get a little over the top sometimes. A lurking mate of mine threw his team in to stir things up for me abit , all in good fun . I agree with you and think our side matches them apart from losing Tom a winger and centre . I'm more pissed at Walker for the situation he has left us in but we will bounce out of it and have some good kids coming through. Yer and I'm sorry for my part in our stoush mate.

The real heroes are the moderators.

Just sayin'

 

[bob dylan]

Our criminal justice system still is founded on a presumption of innocence. An accused person doesn't have to prove anything, it's up to the prosecution to prove their case and they have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

This is another load of BS. Tell it to the thousands of people locked up around the country who were refused bail.

Or for another example - people suspended from their employment pending investigation.

 

[KNUCKLES]

And even though we may get some cap relief if he is stood down whatever your view on the walker situation he really should be allowed to play until he has his next day in court and until the case reaches a verdict.

I agree but... if he plays some part of the season will todd still give us compensation if he is found guilty in may?? I don't think he will

 

[Kevinward777]

I agree but... if he plays some part of the season will todd still give us compensation if he is found guilty in may?? I don't think he will

I imagine his contract would be terminated, and we will try and sign somebody else. Not ideal.

 

[Bearfax]

I know not guilty is not guilty but in that case out couldn't be more emphatic and clear it was all about money or fraud

There should be compensation

There should be. But it rarely happens. Generally it will be stated that the court case is only to determine the innocence or guilt of the accused. They will argue that the false testimony of the accusers is a separate matter and that requires the police to go through the process of getting evidence against those people. Trouble is how do you prove someone falsified their claim. They may argue that their impression was that they believed the accused did what they have been found not guilty of. How do you prove that they were lying. Further most compensation claims go through civil courts and again that requires money to proceed. And then there is the question as to whether the accuser can afford compensation. In the past the government awarded and paid the compensation and then tried to extract it from the convicted person, often at a rate of $10-$20 a week. I'm not sure if that process still exists and it used to be a very slow process.

 

[Bearfax]

I imagine his contract would be terminated, and we will try and sign somebody else. Not ideal.

Its a real problem cancelling the contract of any form of employment because you have to ask who suffers the most...the family. This is the problem with this nature of reaction that seems never well thought through by those screaming for such punishment. Its one of the reasons many women, and sometimes men, in wealthier suburbs especially are reluctant to continue to prosecute their spouses after things have cooled down and they are thinking more clearly. The loss of income means the wife and children suffer further because the money they have been reliant on isn't coming through. A real problem if you have debts, such as mortgages. Some will cut their losses and divorce with at least getting a decent proportion of the assets. But that doesn't solve the longer term monetary issues. I can well understand Walker's partner's panic, because now she is likely to lose out big time for something that was not her fault. I wonder how the NRL would react if such women banded together through the media and complained that the admin had taken away their livelihood, and potentially impoverished them.

There needs to be a clear and logically thought through process in place, whereby the club is not damaged, the family is not damaged and the offender pays a penalty based on a punishment that is hard on him but not others and is hopefully a learning process at the same time. Denying employment damages the family everyone claims they are trying to protect. The penalty should be directed at the offender in a manner whereby he bears the consequences alone and maybe learns something.

 

[Kevinward777]

Its a real problem cancelling the contract of any form of employment because you have to ask who suffers the most...the family. This is the problem with this nature of reaction that seems never well thought through by those screaming for such punishment. Its one of the reasons many women, and sometimes men, in wealthier suburbs especially are reluctant to continue to prosecute their spouses after things have cooled down and they are thinking more clearly. The loss of income means the wife and children suffer further because the money they have been reliant on isn't coming through. A real problem if you have debts, such as mortgages. Some will cut their losses and divorce with at least getting a decent proportion of the assets. But that doesn't solve the longer term monetary issues. I can well understand Walker's partner's panic, because now she is likely to lose out big time for something that was not her fault. I wonder how the NRL would react if such women banded together through the media and complained that the admin had taken away their livelihood, and potentially impoverished them.

There needs to be a clear and logically thought through process in place, whereby the club is not damaged, the family is not damaged and the offender pays a penalty based on a punishment that is hard on him but not others and is hopefully a learning process at the same time. Denying employment damages the family everyone claims they are trying to protect. The penalty should be directed at the offender in a manner whereby he bears the consequences alone and maybe learns something.

I agree with a lot of what you have posted here, and certainly understand the complexity associated with these type of situations. However, I haven’t been screaming about anything, and my initial reaction was inspired by another poster’s flippant response to what is “alleged” to have occurred. I interpreted his post to be implying that it is not a big deal when compared to something like rape. I replied to @sean john question regarding compensation, with an opinion on what I assume will unfold, should Walker be found guilty, and receive a lengthy ban as a result.

 

[mickqld]

Unless there is actual video footage of the DV act, then witness hearsay and police determinations may not wash if the victim says it did not happen that way. Recordings of 000 calls and victim statements to police at the time can be turned around and construed all sorts of ways by clever lawyers IF the actual victim claims later that it all happened a different way. Who knows how the judge will go with this one but if the victim is unwilling to backup others testimonials then the judge may have no option but to dismiss. One way or another it puts a cloud over Dylan's state of mind to play, a cloud over his family and everyone involved. Now it's got another couple of months to play out and hang over everyone's head involved.

 

[Sue]

Again Bob you are basing your comments on what has been reported and not what you've seen. This is where the Stewart matter brought out the public feeding frenzy because so many were prepared to believe the testimony of the young woman, without knowing the full facts. As for shouting at someone over an X Box being justification for sacking a player, I'm assuming that was a tongue in cheek comment. There are very few relationships where couples don't shout at each other with at times hurtful comments in the heat of the moment often over issues no less insignificant. I live in a block of units and there are a few couples who at times I fear will get into a physical brawl. Yes men treat women on occasion with shameful behaviour and violence. I've seen it the other way around also with women literally throwing plates at their husband (one was a work colleague) and only luck resulted in no serious physical damage. I pointed out the numbers of DV matters at Bankstown court on a weekly basis. That's no over estimation. I counted the court lists. Unfortunately in relationships there are always going to be crisis issues. But usually they are momentary, the couple settle down and they move on, or they separate. Its far more common than any of us want to believe but we are all prone to lose it, as demonstrated on some of the disputes on these forums. Physical altercations are not as common, but certainly not uncommon and usually most of us will never hear about them.

I think Dylan may have other misdemeanours that aid in Bob thinking he’s a dickhead and not fit for our club and the vast majority of the league world think just that too. Its not just this event. I personally think he should play till his guilt is decided but I can see very clearly the side Bob is on as well .

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

This is another load of BS. Tell it to the thousands of people locked up around the country who were refused bail.

Or for another example - people suspended from their employment pending investigation.

You are dead right Bob, about people refused bail. For years now the bail laws have been getting more and more restrictive, meaning there are more people on remand in custody waiting for their day in court. Obviously some percentage of them end up being found not guilty.
There was a significant reaction by parliament (fuelled by the shrill urgings of the usual shock jocks) following the Man Monis seige in Martin Place a few years ago. He was on bail for something at the time of that seige.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Its a real problem cancelling the contract of any form of employment because you have to ask who suffers the most...the family. This is the problem with this nature of reaction that seems never well thought through by those screaming for such punishment. Its one of the reasons many women, and sometimes men, in wealthier suburbs especially are reluctant to continue to prosecute their spouses after things have cooled down and they are thinking more clearly. The loss of income means the wife and children suffer further because the money they have been reliant on isn't coming through. A real problem if you have debts, such as mortgages. Some will cut their losses and divorce with at least getting a decent proportion of the assets. But that doesn't solve the longer term monetary issues. I can well understand Walker's partner's panic, because now she is likely to lose out big time for something that was not her fault. I wonder how the NRL would react if such women banded together through the media and complained that the admin had taken away their livelihood, and potentially impoverished them.

There needs to be a clear and logically thought through process in place, whereby the club is not damaged, the family is not damaged and the offender pays a penalty based on a punishment that is hard on him but not others and is hopefully a learning process at the same time. Denying employment damages the family everyone claims they are trying to protect. The penalty should be directed at the offender in a manner whereby he bears the consequences alone and maybe learns something.

Doesn't everyone have expectations to uphold in order to keep their job? Most employers will do what they can to keep families together and off the street etc. and ensure they don't get sued for unlawful dismissal but ultimately if you fail to do your job properly your going to get sacked. You don't have to receive a criminal conviction for an employer to take action against you (but the employee would need to support their claim with evidence if contested). Like it our not, part of the job of a footballer today is being an ambassador for the club and the game, and if you can't perform that role (by simply staying out of trouble) then the club and the NRL have every right to penalize or dismiss individuals.
Now, Dylan was involved in an incident, involving a PlayStation, which led to his partner falling to the ground while holding their child and calling triple 0 in fear for her safety - none of this is disputed. This is very different to pure accusations from a third party which would need to be proven before any action could be taken. Regardless of a conviction for domestic violence or not Dylan has failed in job as an NRL and Manly player. This alone should not be enough to dismiss him from the game, but definitely some form of disciplinary action. The tricky thing, is that the legal battle is still ongoing, so for Walker to admit any level of guilt at this stage or for the club to impose penalties or corrective actions would then be used against him in the ongoing trial.
I was somewhat skeptical of Walker when he first signed, then became a fan (while he kept out of trouble). I tried to keep an open mind when this first came to light but the details and evidence provided yesterday have cemented my opinion of him. He does not deserve to be at our club and I hope the NRL sanction as soon as possible so the team can move on. Our (off field) recruitment standards do appear to have dropped over the past 3 years and now is the time to remind players what is required of them if they want to play at Manly.