Trump

[Brookie1973]

So I am clear you disagree with this?

These 11 Mueller Report Myths Just Won’t Die

Here's why they're wrong

time.com

I’m not going to click on that article, as I already know it doesn’t say the Mueller report proved Russian collusion. If it does, can you do me a favour and cut and paste that bit for me. Thanks.

 

[lsz]

I’m not going to click on that article, as I already know it doesn’t say the Mueller report proved Russian collusion. If it does, can you do me a favour and cut and paste that bit for me. Thanks.

Really? Clicking is too much?

I think on that note we will just agree to disagree

 

[Brookie1973]

Really? Clicking is too much?

I think on that note we will just agree to disagree

Yes, I agree with Robert mueller there was no collusion. You disagree.

 

[lsz]

Sigh

 

[Brookie1973]

Yes, I agree with Robert mueller there was no collusion. You disagree.

Sigh

You should try it from my side.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Sigh

Don't worry about it lsz. Not worth arguing with a bored teenager who thinks its funny to pretend to be obtuse. (gawd I hope its a bored teen, really quite sad if its actually someone as old as his avatar implies he is)

 

[lsz]

Don't worry about it lsz. Not worth arguing with a bored teenager who thinks its funny to pretend to be obtuse. (gawd I hope its a bored teen, really quite sad if its actually someone as old as his avatar implies he is)

All I ever ask for is a balanced conversation

Show me what you think with something to back it up and lets talk - way too much I know

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

All I ever ask for is a balanced conversation

Show me what you think with something to back it up and lets talk - way too much I know

Shouldn't be too much to ask for but not everyone's here for the same reasons, such is life. And for Trump fans life is all about repeating lies as often and as loudly as possible, been working well for him.

 

[Brookie1973]

Hi gents, bored teenager here. I’ll have to keep this short because I’ve still got my maths homework to do.

Sorry to interrupt your engrossing little echo chamber, but it appears I have misunderstood what we had been talking about over the past several pages. I thought the discussion topic was “Was Trump guilty of collusion with the Russians during the 2016 election campaign?”

I said there was no collusion. My English teacher says I should always provide supporting evidence for any assertions I make in my essays, so to support my claim of no collusion, I offered the final Robert Mueller report, which I believe, concluded there was no evidence of said collusion, despite an unprecedented, exhaustive and protracted investigation by the finest law agencies in the US.

My learned colleagues on the affirmative side, in rebuttal, have quoted and entered into evidence a wide ranging selection of press clippings, thought bubbles and opinions, which, whilst entertaining, fail to address the central premise. I have therefore rested my case.

“But all we ask for is a balanced conversation” implore my learned colleagues. To wit, I say, trump is a clownish buffoon of the highest order. But, he may just be the clownish buffoon the world needs at this critical juncture in history.

Over to you my worthy intellectual adversaries, what say you by way of balanced intercourse?

NB tomorrow will be fine. Maths homework awaits. Btw can any of you elderly gents remember how to solve quadratic equations?

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I thought the discussion topic was “Was Trump guilty of collusion with the Russians during the 2016 election campaign?”

No I joined to comment on what you (and Donald) called "the Russia collusion hoax" (your post #93

o to support my claim of no collusion, I offered the final Robert Mueller report, which I believe, concluded there was no evidence of said collusion

False false false and false.

there is no such offence as 'collusion', which you and everyone who followed the entire circus knows very well.

There are other offences though such as conspiracy and obstruction of justice. Mueller did NOT find Trump innocent of anything. The investigation did not find enough evidence to charge Trump with conspiracy but as everyone over the age of 10 knows, this is not the same as saying "no conspiracy happened".

They found some behavior was suspicious.... there were contacts that raised questions... but they couldn’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a criminal conspiracy occurred.

Mueller DID NOT say “no collusion” — that phrase was used by Trump, not the report.

Mueller DID NOT say there was definitively no conspiracy — he said the investigation did not establish one.

Mueller investigated 10 possible obstruction acts.

He found SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE in several of them.

He specifically DID NOT CLEAR Trump.

He did not charge him, citing DOJ policy, which says 'a sitting US president should not be charged.'

Later over 1,000 former federal prosecutors signed a public letter stating that, based on the facts laid out, Trump WOULD HAVE BEEN charged with obstruction IF he were not president.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Perhaps I oversimplify things in my dotage ... but I have trouble apportioning any creditability to any side that think DEI rather than merit is a good idea ... or that a man simply saying he is a woman somehow makes it true ..

I doubt anyone thinks merit is a bad idea, but don't you think diversity is part of merit?

Meaning, real advantages come to any organisation or endeavour by having the benefit of diverse experience. eg is a body tasked with making rules for a whole society really better if made up exclusively of old white men, as our parliament used to be?

The equality and inclusion part is just recognising that there are reasons why some groups are often excluded from selection, and putting steps in place to help them qualify for selection.

When those plane crashes happened recently in the US there was Trump & co "whoah it might have been an unqualified DEI pilot or a DEI traffic controller" but this was quickly shut down because literally no-one is ever given those jobs unless they are qualified (on merit).

 

[Brookie1973]

No I joined to comment on what you (and Donald) called "the Russia collusion hoax" (your post #93



False false false and false.

there is no such offence as 'collusion', which you and everyone who followed the entire circus knows very well.

There are other offences though such as conspiracy and obstruction of justice. Mueller did NOT find Trump innocent of anything. The investigation did not find enough evidence to charge Trump with conspiracy but as everyone over the age of 10 knows, this is not the same as saying "no conspiracy happened".

They found some behavior was suspicious.... there were contacts that raised questions... but they couldn’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a criminal conspiracy occurred.

Mueller DID NOT say “no collusion” — that phrase was used by Trump, not the report.

Mueller DID NOT say there was definitively no conspiracy — he said the investigation did not establish one.

Mueller investigated 10 possible obstruction acts.

He found SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE in several of them.

He specifically DID NOT CLEAR Trump.

He did not charge him, citing DOJ policy, which says 'a sitting US president should not be charged.'

Later over 1,000 former federal prosecutors signed a public letter stating that, based on the facts laid out, Trump WOULD HAVE BEEN charged with obstruction IF he were not president.

Thanks for all that, but I have read Wikipedia as well.
If we substitute the phrase “conspiracy and coordination” for the shorthand “collusion”, I think we can agree that “the report found no evidence of a conspiracy and coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign.” Did Russia “interfere”? - probably. Did it have a bearing on the election result? - based on mainstream media coverage and pre result polling, I’d say not. Was mainstream media heavily biased against Trump in this campaign and do they remain so today? Yes. Is mainstream media bias a greater threat to democracy than the actions of foreign players? In my opinion, yes. Was this the first election to ever feature attempted manipulation by foreign players to influence the result in favour of their preferred candidate? Only if you also believe in fairytales. Has the polarisation of political debate resulted in the politicisation of the judiciary and is this also a threat to the democratic process? Yes. Is trump squeaky clean? No. Is Hillary and the Bidens? No comment.
In summary, I believe I have satisfied the request for a balanced discussion, and welcomed a response in kind. It is disappointing but not surprising that such a response remains as elusive as ever.

 

[Brookie1973]

I doubt anyone thinks merit is a bad idea, but don't you think diversity is part of merit?

Meaning, real advantages come to any organisation or endeavour by having the benefit of diverse experience. eg is a body tasked with making rules for a whole society really better if made up exclusively of old white men, as our parliament used to be?

The equality and inclusion part is just recognising that there are reasons why some groups are often excluded from selection, and putting steps in place to help them qualify for selection.

When those plane crashes happened recently in the US there was Trump & co "whoah it might have been an unqualified DEI pilot or a DEI traffic controller" but this was quickly shut down because literally no-one is ever given those jobs unless they are qualified (on

In the interest of balanced discussion, do you acknowledge there may be examples where the best qualified person for a role may be excluded because of quotas pertaining to skin colour, gender or sexuality?

 

[Woodsie]

I doubt anyone thinks merit is a bad idea, but don't you think diversity is part of merit?

Meaning, real advantages come to any organisation or endeavour by having the benefit of diverse experience. eg is a body tasked with making rules for a whole society really better if made up exclusively of old white men, as our parliament used to be?

The equality and inclusion part is just recognising that there are reasons why some groups are often excluded from selection, and putting steps in place to help them qualify for selection.

When those plane crashes happened recently in the US there was Trump & co "whoah it might have been an unqualified DEI pilot or a DEI traffic controller" but this was quickly shut down because literally no-one is ever given those jobs unless they are qualified (on merit).

No empathetic human disagrees with helping the underprivileged ... but to make DEI a broad societal and legal obligation is pure lunacy ..

Would you have been happy if your law professors were employed, not on their merit, but their race or religion? One of the most alarming results is the complete havoc been played out on university campuses across america .. Harvard is becoming a footnote to stupidy .. the loonies are running the asylum and it will take a decade to cure.

You can play the bleating heart role, and attempt to claim the tenuous moral high ground ... but education is of paramount importance to a nation's growth and future ... to blindly dumb it down in the name of kindness, or worse, political ideology ... is criminally negligent.