Tonight's Public Forum

[Mybludog]

I’ll try again.

I had a fairly lengthy post made out last night but when I hit the post button the site crashed so to say that I was slightly pissed would be an understatement.

I was at the meeting Monday night and was sitting with Jono and about a dozen others off to one side of the auditorium all wearing some form of Manly colour. There were about another 6-10 up near the back including Des, Zorba, Wendy Harmer and some SE staff. May have also been a couple of others scattered around but not wearing any Manly colours.

Firstly I’ll say that I don’t mean any disrespect to Jono at all but I didn’t find it anywhere near as bad as he has described.
There were plenty of people heckling and interrupting all the candidates on stage about every subject that was discussed not just the people with Zorba.
While Zorba may have been a bit over the top I think that’s just more to do with the presence that he has and his voice. He was very passionate about the issue of Brookie and did seem quite bemused that the Lib pollies were giving us the “we haven’t heard from you in 2 years” bit.

Kerry Sibraa was there and while he didn’t say anything directly he was in deep conversation with Des at one stage outside.

Des spoke really well. Took the centre of the room and was fairly clear in what he said. “Turn the ground over to a trust and take it away from the council and ratepayers”.

What I did find a bit funny was that this seemed to be the first time anyone had heard this idea, but that was just the impression that I got.

For mine, I’d of thought that the club/owners/whoever would have been pushing this with the Lib’s for quite some time and if they weren’t getting anywhere…..then raise the issues in this type of forum. This may have been what’s happened but it didn’t seem to come out like it.

As far as the comment about not taking his kids to the footy by Baird, I’m certain that it was made tongue in check……he had a big smile on his face when he said it.

Also in relation to Hazzard’s comment about “Abbott not in power” and “taking it up with Gillard” I’m pretty sure this was made to one of the ALP candidates sitting 2 seats up, he seemed to throw the mic on the desk in front of her as he made it and was looking at her.

One last point that was interesting to me being from outside the electorate was that at the end the bloke from the Manly Daily asked them about O’Farrell giving the Bears the 3.5mil there was a large grown from the crowd and words to the effect of “not Brookvale again”.
Didn’t seem to be too many in the room interested in Brookvale Oval or the Sea Eagles……..and that’s worrying

 

[[email protected]]

I can't believe that nobody from the club has been in contact with either of the two main parties for 2 years.

You shouldn't believe it...... because it is simply not true.

Graham Lowe and Kerry Sibra had a meeting with Brad Hazzard less than 12 months ago.  Whether there has been more meetings since then, I don't know, but I know for certain about that first meeting.  For Brad Hazzard to say no-one from the club has talked to them for 2 years is a joke.

Sibra may have left the Sea Eagles Board but he has never stopped working his guts out for Brookie Oval and he has been in constant dialogue with lots of people, particularly Mike Baird.

Sibra was the Sea Eagles rep on the Council's Brookvale Oval Consultation panel last year.

Jonesy can probably confirm, but I understand that mid way through the consultation process, a bloke from Mike Baird's office joined the panel........ do you know why..... because Sibra was constantly in Mike Baird's ear saying he needed to send a representative from his office to make sure the Panel stayed on track to get the best outcome for Brookie and not be overrun by the views of a minority of residents. 

So much for no contact for 2 years.

As for the Trust idea, I'm pretty sure I remember reading about the Trust idea from the Council report that eventuated from the consultation process so it is not an overly new idea.


I'm not a fan of Zorba's methods with the whole "call to arms" crap.  Obviously on the night Hazzard decided attack was the best form of defence and so he turned it back on the Sea Eagles, making out it was the Sea Eagles who had failed to act for 2 years.

Sibra could have called Hazzard out right then and there at the Forum, but at least he was smart enough to realise there was nothing to be gained by publicly exposing Hazzard as ultimately we need his support once the Libs are in government if anything is ever going to happen.


I guess there is no better evidence of how low Zorba stocks have fallen than the fact that so many on here are happy to believe the word of a politican over Zorba.

 

[Christol74]

Hi Jono,

Thanks for the rundown on the public forum.

Without turning this into a political debate, I just want to point out a couple of things r.e. funding for the Brookvale Oval Upgrade. I have put this question to Warringah Council many times without a response so maybe you can put it to them.

With regards to Federal Funding, the only reason that Warringah Council has not received Federal Funding for the Brookvale Oval upgrade is because they have never actually applied for it. I can assure you that the Federal Labor Government would have liked nothing more than to join with NSW State Labor to fund a project in Tony Abbots electorate.

To obtain funding you need to use the appropriate mechanism to apply which in this case is the Regional Development & Community Infrastructure Programme. Over the past couple of years $100's of millions of dollars has been handed out to various sporting facilities through this programme however it requires the local government body to apply. The football club cannot apply for it and Tony Abbott standing up in parliament asking the Labor Government to honor his election commitment was a waste of time because it was not followed up with an actual official application.

Warringah Council had funding approved for every project that they applied for through this programme but the problem is they chose only to apply for 'green' projects such as the Narrabeen Lakes track. Why, because the green element of the council were the only ones putting anything forward. In saying that even the green elements of Warringah Council were surprised that none of the other councillors were pursuing this funding because looking at council meeting minutes, the only person that raised the idea of applying for Federal Funding for Brookvale was the councilor who has been the biggest opponent of the upgrade. I might add that this was not until the funding for the greens projects had already been secured.

It is clear that being in a safe seat of any party results in the community being neglected. For Warringah, when the Liberals were in government they upgraded just about every sporting ground in the country other than Brookvale, some multiple times. When in opposition the last thing Tony Abbott wants to see is Federal and State Labor Governments delivering projects in his electorate which he did not, despite having 17-18 years to do so. If this were to happen, suddenly his safe seat may not be so safe.

When Tony Abbott stood up in parliament and asked the Labor Government to honour his election commitment in relation to funding Brookvale it was all smoke and mirrors. There is no point asking for funding if nobody is going to actually follow it up with an official application outlining the details of the project. To date, this has not happened.

Through my work I have to deal with NSW local government every day and I can honestly say that Warringah Council is without doubt the most dysfunctional in the State with daylight second. Nothing is simple in Warringah and therefore little gets done.

Below is a link to all the projects that have been funded over the past couple of years under the community infrastructure programme. Given that funding has been the biggest stumbling block for the Brookvale Oval upgrade, everyone should be demanding answers from the council as to why they have not been bothered to even submit an application.

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/esp/files/RLCIP_550_31082009m.pdf

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Given that funding has been the biggest stumbling block for the Brookvale Oval upgrade, everyone should be demanding answers from the council as to why they have not been bothered to even submit an application.

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/esp/files/RLCIP_550_31082009m.pdf

Thanks for the info Russ, and interesting 1st posts from Christol and Charlie61, welcome to both. Vidmar can the club ask one of the on-side councillors to put in the funding submission that Christol mentions - asap? Is there a reason why that  would not be a good idea?

 

[Jono]

The point of the post wasn't about what was asked by Des because, as I said, the questions were very valid, as were SOME of the points in Zorba's rant. However, it was the behaviour of some at the back that brought us all down. That is what the post was about. Comments being yelled out I can't remember as its been a couple of days (something along the lines of "bull****" and other things). Someone else that was there might be able to tell you. However, it came off as substandard and brutish.

As for an attack on Des, it wasn't in any way. However, he was up there and, as I said COULD have been involved but I didn't see so I couldn't say that he was.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Welcome Christol and Charlie, don't let this be your first, and last posts on Silvertails

 

[Jono]

Yes, they were good posts and points, but they leave more questions than answers: for example, if everything was going on behind the sens, why the call to arms? Why the bad behaviour? and why most importantly wasn't Kerry Sibraa the man doing the talking as we all know he is the one that has been doing most of the work, work that we don't want ruined by others and he is well respected by everyone?

Way too many questions, no answers.

 

[Rex]

Whether he admits it or not, the original poster is seeing what he sees through party political eyes.

From a party perspective, the Liberal Party are way, way behind the Labour party in providing support for the Sea Eagles:
1.  The entire peninsular is made up of extremely safe Liberal seats. Therefore, fair expectation is that the Libs should support their own -  the Sea Eagles - far more than Labour.
2.  Despite having many opportunities in power to do otherwise, the Libs have provided a mere $1m - many years ago - to upgrade lighting.  We have the worst ground (facility wise) in the NRL due to the lack of government support - and the key responsibility for this rides with the Libs, not Labour.
3.  The Libs have only promised to provide any more money from opposition when they appeared to have next to no chance of having to meet any promises.
4.  In contrast to the absence of Liberal party support, Labour has recently provided $6m for ground upgrades - i.e. six times the amount the Libs have provided.
5.  Brad Hazzard claimed that we got this $6m from Labour through the Liberal party lobbying Labour.   How stupid does he think we are? The suggestion we should be thanking the Liberals for Labour providing this $6m is pure shallow political spin.

I agree with DSM that the tired old "Nobody like us, we don't care" motto has seen its time and is counter to our current interests.  Brand ourselves as silvertails, successes - fine.  Respect others' rights to think whatever they think - fine.  But branding ourselves as people who just don't care, brands us as social misfits and losers.  

There's a huge difference between not minding and not caring.

 

[Jonesyv2]

[quote author=kurri eagle link=topic=186590.msg318847#msg318847 date=1298941106]
I can't believe that nobody from the club has been in contact with either of the two main parties for 2 years.

You shouldn't believe it...... because it is simply not true.

Graham Lowe and Kerry Sibra had a meeting with Brad Hazzard less than 12 months ago.  Whether there has been more meetings since then, I don't know, but I know for certain about that first meeting.  For Brad Hazzard to say no-one from the club has talked to them for 2 years is a joke.

Sibra may have left the Sea Eagles Board but he has never stopped working his guts out for Brookie Oval and he has been in constant dialogue with lots of people, particularly Mike Baird.

Sibra was the Sea Eagles rep on the Council's Brookvale Oval Consultation panel last year.

Jonesy can probably confirm, but I understand that mid way through the consultation process, a bloke from Mike Baird's office joined the panel........ do you know why..... because Sibra was constantly in Mike Baird's ear saying he needed to send a representative from his office to make sure the Panel stayed on track to get the best outcome for Brookie and not be overrun by the views of a minority of residents. 

So much for no contact for 2 years.

As for the Trust idea, I'm pretty sure I remember reading about the Trust idea from the Council report that eventuated from the consultation process so it is not an overly new idea.

[/quote]

I can confirm both of these points.

The point of the post wasn't about what was asked by Des because, as I said, the questions were very valid, as were SOME of the points in Zorba's rant. However, it was the behaviour of some at the back that brought us all down. That is what the post was about. Comments being yelled out I can't remember as its been a couple of days (something along the lines of \"bulls**t\" and other things). Someone else that was there might be able to tell you. However, it came off as substandard and brutish.

As for an attack on Des, it wasn't in any way. However, he was up there and, as I said COULD have been involved but I didn't see so I couldn't say that he was.

To me it just sounds like another session of parliament plenty of boos and heckles in that place, it's funny to watch but also a very sad realisation that these people run the country and act this way LOL.

Not that i think it was the right thing to do to help our cause.

 

[bones]

It was more then that mark, it was leaving sea eagles coasters all over the sharkes leagues club. I remember walking into the toilets to see them all stuck right in front of peoples faces on the mirrors above the urinals everywhere

It was more THAN that Mark.

Sorry Jonesy.. Revenge for last week.

 

[MadMarcus]

2.  Despite having many opportunities in power to do otherwise, the Libs have provided a mere $1m - many years ago - to upgrade lighting.  We have the worst ground (facility wise) in the NRL due to the lack of government support - and the key responsibility for this rides with the Libs, not Labour.

I don't think it is fair to say that the Liberals have had "many opportunities".  Was the Brookie upgrade a burning issue when the Libs came to power federally in 1996?  We were no chance of securing significant funding from any government when the Super League/Northern Eagles debacles were going on, and just how many opportunities have the NSW Liberals had over the past decade and a half?

3.  The Libs have only promised to provide any more money from opposition when they appeared to have next to no chance of having to meet any promises.

Given the result, I think it is a bit of a stretch to argue that Abbott had "next to no chance" of winning the last election.

5.  Brad Hazzard claimed that we got this $6m from Labour through the Liberal party lobbying Labour.   How stupid does he think we are? The suggestion we should be thanking the Liberals for Labour providing this $6m is pure shallow political spin.

Agree with you on this point though if this is what he said.

The main point is that a NSW Liberal government represents the best opportunity we have had in a very long time to get some action on this issue, and it seems we are blowing it.

 

[Jono]

Whether he admits it or not, the original poster is seeing what he sees through party political eyes.

From a party perspective, the Liberal Party are way, way behind the Labour party in providing support for the Sea Eagles:
1.  The entire peninsular is made up of extremely safe Liberal seats. Therefore, fair expectation is that the Libs should support their own -  the Sea Eagles - far more than Labour.
2.  Despite having many opportunities in power to do otherwise, the Libs have provided a mere $1m - many years ago - to upgrade lighting.  We have the worst ground (facility wise) in the NRL due to the lack of government support - and the key responsibility for this rides with the Libs, not Labour.
3.  The Libs have only promised to provide any more money from opposition when they appeared to have next to no chance of having to meet any promises.
4.  In contrast to the absence of Liberal party support, Labour has recently provided $6m for ground upgrades - i.e. six times the amount the Libs have provided.
5.  Brad Hazzard claimed that we got this $6m from Labour through the Liberal party lobbying Labour.   How stupid does he think we are? The suggestion we should be thanking the Liberals for Labour providing this $6m is pure shallow political spin.

I agree with DSM that the tired old \"Nobody like us, we don't care\" motto has seen its time and is counter to our current interests.  Brand ourselves as silvertails, successes - fine.  Respect others' rights to think whatever they think - fine.  But branding ourselves as people who just don't care, brands us as social misfits and losers.  

There's a huge difference between not minding and not caring.

Thanks Rex, and I did admit that was in the Party. However, there is a right way to behave and a wrong way, it doesn't matter who they are. The tell tale point is when everyone else booed when another question about Brookie was being asked. Would they have done this if the people at the back hadn't been yelling out? Maybe, maybe not. However, as Jonesy said, it isn't a good look for the Mnaly cause either way.

Also, don't forget the last time Brookie got any money was when the Liberal party was last in State Government (other than the $6 million. This was negotiated, as Brad said, by him, Mike and Kerry Sibraa, which is how it happened. As we know Kerry did most of the work but he had to as the Libs in Opposition). We are talking 16 years here. They are our best hope of any money (Federal don't help us) and they were treated badly. I wasn't the only one in that room that thought so. 450 others thought so as well. Therefore, I might be a member of the party but my opinion on this wasn't because of who I support as, in my heart, the Sea Eagles will always come first.

 

[Jonesyv2]

[quote author=Jonesyv2 link=topic=186590.msg319230#msg319230 date=1299050905]
It was more then that mark, it was leaving sea eagles coasters all over the sharkes leagues club. I remember walking into the toilets to see them all stuck right in front of peoples faces on the mirrors above the urinals everywhere

It was more THAN that Mark.

Sorry Jonesy.. Revenge for last week.
[/quote]

Hahaha well played Bones

 

[Rex]

[quote author=Rex link=topic=186590.msg319315#msg319315 date=1299107388]
Whether he admits it or not, the original poster is seeing what he sees through party political eyes.

From a party perspective, the Liberal Party are way, way behind the Labour party in providing support for the Sea Eagles:
1.  The entire peninsular is made up of extremely safe Liberal seats. Therefore, fair expectation is that the Libs should support their own -  the Sea Eagles - far more than Labour.
2.  Despite having many opportunities in power to do otherwise, the Libs have provided a mere $1m - many years ago - to upgrade lighting.  We have the worst ground (facility wise) in the NRL due to the lack of government support - and the key responsibility for this rides with the Libs, not Labour.
3.  The Libs have only promised to provide any more money from opposition when they appeared to have next to no chance of having to meet any promises.
4.  In contrast to the absence of Liberal party support, Labour has recently provided $6m for ground upgrades - i.e. six times the amount the Libs have provided.
5.  Brad Hazzard claimed that we got this $6m from Labour through the Liberal party lobbying Labour.  How stupid does he think we are? The suggestion we should be thanking the Liberals for Labour providing this $6m is pure shallow political spin.

I agree with DSM that the tired old \"Nobody like us, we don't care\" motto has seen its time and is counter to our current interests.  Brand ourselves as silvertails, successes - fine.  Respect others' rights to think whatever they think - fine.  But branding ourselves as people who just don't care, brands us as social misfits and losers. 

There's a huge difference between not minding and not caring.

Thanks Rex, and I did admit that was in the Party. However, there is a right way to behave and a wrong way, it doesn't matter who they are. The tell tale point is when everyone else booed when another question about Brookie was being asked. Would they have done this if the people at the back hadn't been yelling out? Maybe, maybe not. However, as Jonesy said, it isn't a good look for the Mnaly cause either way.

Also, don't forget the last time Brookie got any money was when the Liberal party was last in State Government (other than the $6 million. This was negotiated, as Brad said, by him, Mike and Kerry Sibraa, which is how it happened. As we know Kerry did most of the work but he had to as the Libs in Opposition). We are talking 16 years here. They are our best hope of any money (Federal don't help us) and they were treated badly. I wasn't the only one in that room that thought so. 450 others thought so as well. Therefore, I might be a member of the party but my opinion on this wasn't because of who I support as, in my heart, the Sea Eagles will always come first.
[/quote]
I'm not commenting on the approriateness of actions.  I wasn't there.

What I was commenting on was that you were clearly activated by looking through your political viewing lens.  I don't know if you were aware of that.  And in a Liberal stronghold - especially where there may be a high proportion of aged citizens - such as at the RSL club - a lot of other people may be in the same situation as you.  The crowd reaction to any criticism of Liberal politicians is obviously going to be wildly different if it is in a Liberal stronghold.

The argument that Brad got Labour to put funds to Manly is ludicrous. You can't be serious.  I urge everyone reading this to give all of their life saving to the club.  If anyone does, then I should now take the credit.  Ridiculous.

The score is clearly on the board.  Since the NRL started:
Libs $1m
Labour $6m

The NSW Libs now have the chance to show they can provide 6 times the amount that Labour did.  Manly is only asking for 3 times.  It IS a Liberal stronghold after all.

 

[Frank]

I'm sick of this whole funding crap and even more sick of the local council's attitude. If I had my way we would immediately call all bluffs and move our home games for this season to the best offer. Preferably the SFS.

That would give the council a year to see what it's like not having a major tenant at Brookvale Oval.

 

[The Eagle]

GG id rather move to Bluetongue because we can pack that stadium
No matter how many fans live in sydney we will never fill the SFS in a sea
of maroon and white

 

[Brookie4eva]

That would give the council a year to see what it's like not having a major tenant at Brookvale Oval.

They could just as easily use that as an excuse to shut Brookie Oval down, and make it into playgrounds, or sell the land for development, it would make a lot of money for the council to sell the land.

Either of those options would be horrible.

 

[Jono]

[quote author=Gorgeous George link=topic=186590.msg319344#msg319344 date=1299119262]
That would give the council a year to see what it's like not having a major tenant at Brookvale Oval.

They could just as easily use that as an excuse to shut Brookie Oval down, and make it into playgrounds, or sell the land for development, it would make a lot of money for the council to sell the land.

Either of those options would be horrible.
[/quote]

Totally agree. We leave, they'll see no use for the ground and decide to re-zone it. That would be a really bad result for all parties, even the people arguing against the ground and causing all the issues in the first place.

 

[Duff]

GG id rather move to Bluetongue because we can pack that stadium
No matter how many fans live in sydney we will never fill the SFS in a sea
of maroon and white

Evil. I know I'd never attend a game there if we moved to Gosford. Manly would be dead to me. Again.
SFS, I'd whinge but put up with it.

I don't think I'd be on my own in that.

 

[Canteen Worker]

Interesting read and some fascinating comments. I will put my colours up in that my daughter is an ALP member and very involved in the party, in another part of Sydney. I commend her on her passion and her enthusiasm to do good!

I would like to take the partisan politics out of the Brookvale issue and look more at equity and infrastructure needs. Governments of all parties have lots of competing needs for money and it is immature to suggest that certain grounds/clubs get better deals due to the personal whims of the politicians/parties. It has much more to do with groundswell of popular opinion plus the noise that can be publicly made. Despite the cynicism of our politicians there are good systems of accountability in our country. (My cynicism comes from those who promise things they can't deliver or those that pass the buck.) Marginal seats get more attention but to say we get nothing due to being in Liberal heartland is not the full truth.

I personally believe that the Northern Districts of Sydney (covering about 1/4 of the Geographical city should have one top-class venue and I don't care who is in power. Federal and State Govts should be lobbied for a fair go for Brookvale.

Part of our problem is that this is a council owned ground. The other part of the issue is the malaise of many. I am shocked to hear that there has been no representation to State Politicians for years - as I though Kerry Sibraa and others were lobbying hard for the club. If the club has not been knocking down the door for fair treatment, that is a total scandal.

My last point however, is that if the local members actually knew their community and did their job, they would know a lot more on the needs of the community - and I don't care what party they are in. That is why some are openly dismissive of the pollies of all colours.