The way forward

[Mark from Brisbane]

Let "s see how things go when the contact values of D C E , Turbo and Jake finishes and comes into effect and savings ideally redirected for a more balanced and value for money squad
In all probability , if there could have been even close to receiving some decent return on investment for those 3 high level contracts over the past 7 years or so , sure that Manly could have been that much closer to a being a more serious contender
Most leave Ola as the highest paid player then no doubt going forward then but at least for quite while now , he has been consistently one of the few players who has or can really make a competitive difference
Same will or is close to applying to Koula and reflected contract wise accordingly but still spare coin to redirect to a couple of impact forwards and somehow to then most likely soon also , to accommodate the likes of Walsh and Large and maybe one emerging 9

Agree with that , to an extent but it’s the presumption we are able to sign some decent players or decent players with potential.

That is the six million dollar question

 

[silvereagle]

Agree with that , to an extent but it’s the presumption we are able to sign some decent players or decent players with potential.

That is the six million dollar question

Love your passion for this club @Mark. Keep it coming.

I think it's more of a $2.5m question. Irrespective of the $$$$'s however, the challenge continues to be the quality of decisions amongst management and coaching. Craig Walker a good start in the right direction. Several more major changes however needed if we are to have a real shot at 2026.

ps. you are correct about the Penn ROI so best to assume no changes at that level.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Love your passion for this club @Mark. Keep it coming.

I think it's more of a $2.5m question. Irrespective of the $$$$'s however, the challenge continues to be the quality of decisions amongst management and coaching. Craig Walker a good start in the right direction. Several more major changes however needed if we are to have a real shot at 2026.

ps. you are correct about the Penn ROI so best to assume no changes at that level.

No , any improvement can only come from , wiser use of the cap , better ( if at all possible ) recruiting because we certainly aren’t getting,

**Unlimited funds to sign whomever when they come up.

**Loads more dollars to bring the football department from average to world class.

Mind you we are not Robinson Caruso on that front , almost all of the bottom 10 are in that predicament.

As I’ve said in this thread if it’s going to happen it will only happen from within, we cannot just “ go to market to buy a competition “ , only the top 3 or 4 can do that.

 

[susan]

Assuming the team fails to make the finals this year, the 11 seasons from 2015-25 are the worst seasons, at first grade level, in the history of the Manly-Warringah club.

Those seasons coincide with majority control by the Penn family*, plus their silent partners, Messrs Wolman and Andrew.

Four seasons when they made the finals during that period, going no further than Week 3 on one occasion (2021), is a modest return for a club which previously had such a proud record.

*I don’t think Penn Sr. is involved anymore

Also coincides with paying 1.3 mill for an overrated half totally incapable of managing big games. Penn is part of it but the backflip of The Chaser has been our biggest albatross, both in terms of his deficiencies and polarisation of the playing group , particularly the Trbojevics.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Also coincides with paying 1.3 mill for an overrated half totally incapable of managing big games. Penn is part of it but the backflip of The Chaser has been our biggest albatross, both in terms of his deficiencies and polarisation of the playing group , particularly the Trbojevics.

Well that’s one reason to look forward to 2026.

Mind you may not be many more but that will be refreshing at least.

 

[The Insomniac]

Next time you’re at the Gold Coast head down to Yatala Pie Shop, they have 54 different varieties of pies , all the usuals and a lot of very different ones.

Very famous up this way.

Mate you talking to the converted here. As good as Yatala is I've found a better one. You gotta try The Little Kiwi Bakehouse in Nerang. It's better.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Mate you talking to the converted here. As good as Yatala is I've found a better one. You gotta try The Little Kiwi Bakehouse in Nerang. It's better.

Oh , don’t get to Nerang too often but I’ll give it a try next time I’m down on the coast.

Need to take my Landcruiser down for a little upgrade so maybe then.

 

[1972]

Also coincides with paying 1.3 mill for an overrated half totally incapable of managing big games. Penn is part of it but the backflip of The Chaser has been our biggest albatross, both in terms of his deficiencies and polarisation of the playing group , particularly the Trbojevics.

The problem unfortunately is that with private ownership has come a total lack of accountability for bad performance of the club as a whole at every level. Is the owner going to sack himself ? No. Is he going to say he needs to do better? No. The Footbsll Club needs to pass a protest resolution. This is not Manly- Warringah. And give notice that if it does not improve in 12 months they are withdrawing permission to use the club name and colours. They have that power.

 

[Frogz]

The problem unfortunately is that with private ownership has come a total lack of accountability for bad performance of the club as a whole at every level. Is the owner going to sack himself ? No. Is he going to say he needs to do better? No. The Footbsll Club needs to pass a protest resolution. This is not Manly- Warringah. And give notice that if it does not improve in 12 months they are withdrawing permission to use the club name and colours. They have that power.

They only hold 1 vote

 

[Stu1961]

Then you just need to time travel back to 1978, grab the then 48 year old Ken Arthurson - telling him we need him in the third decade of the 21st Century - to save the Sea Eagles from the beige-like mediocrity of an upper north shore (therefore non-Manly) nepo baby.

He will understand completely. But probably better to drop him into c.2006, sometime before the Penn family got their grubby hands on the leagues’ club. He can then tell the older version of himself: ‘Retire now (from the leagues’ club board) Ken, I’ve got this.’

Throw in 6 or so of the 78 premiers 😂

 

[Fibro Eagle]

The way forward may change with the appointment of Craig Walker
The recruitment and identifying talent has lacked of late especially with forwards , The clubs doing this are more successful
Manly need to identify younger forwards no more Browns or Lodges that’s not the way forward
The backs are fine
With Fogarty next year this team will operate differently so there is some hope of a better year
Obviously the front office needs to be better
The Coach well that one is certainly open for discussion
Under Seibold some young half’s have been identified for the future
But team selection is under scrutiny at times
There needs to be some major changes in recruiting if the thought process doesn’t change there it will be more of the same

 

[silvereagle]

As I’ve said in this thread if it’s going to happen it will only happen from within, we cannot just “ go to market to buy a competition “ , only the top 3 or 4 can do that.

I don't agree that this is the exclusive domain of only the "top 3 or 4". It's all about making smart decisions and usually that usually means having smart people in your organisation. Clearly Judging by the quality of decisions last few years and the average results, you got to question the quality of our management and coaching staff. Money is obviously important but it's more about how and where you spend it.

 

[double hoops]

I think we all know the limiting factor in our club, but given that , and the fact we are stuck with it , the question still remains , how do we move forward ?

We have to find a way ( the club of course not us sausage roll eating nufties ).

It's on Penn and Messie to work it out.

If they don't bring in some fast young bucks into the pack, next year is on them, there is no excuses.
2.4 mill to the urbo boys in 26 so what. That's nadda.

Nothing can't be achieved in league, but having the will, and smarts to achieve it.

We don't need big names, and big price tags, but we do need highly talented, highly rated, with leg speed.

 

[The Who]

The way forward may change with the appointment of Craig Walker
The recruitment and identifying talent has lacked of late especially with forwards , The clubs doing this are more successful
Manly need to identify younger forwards no more Browns or Lodges that’s not the way forward
The backs are fine
With Fogarty next year this team will operate differently so there is some hope of a better year
Obviously the front office needs to be better
The Coach well that one is certainly open for discussion
Under Seibold some young half’s have been identified for the future
But team selection is under scrutiny at times
There needs to be some major changes in recruiting if the thought process doesn’t change there it will be more of the same

What's the point of having a recruitment officer when our bufuddled coach picks the same nufties every match?

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Our only answer is to develop young talent. But there is no pointing planting the crop if you wait too long to harvest it. Fortune favours the brave.

 

[mosto]

Some good discussion on here.

Firstly the ownership. I think most would say the Penn's handling of the club has been poor. While we can't force a change of ownership, we can be more active in our discontent than we are. Protests / banners at the ground calling for a change would bring media attention to the issue. Getting the dissatisfaction in the public domain may force either a sale or a change in philosophy from Penn. Not saying it definitely will but it's worth a shot. Nothing to lose in my opinion.

Next is recruitment and pathways. We don't have the junior base on the northern beaches that a lot of clubs do. We need to expand our junior recruitment to other areas. I'm involved in junior rugby league in central west NSW. Penrith pretty much have a mortgage on juniors as far west as Dubbo, then to the south, say Cowra / Forbes down, Canberra have a strong foothold. Those two clubs invest time and money in those areas and are rewarded with the junior talent they produce. I have also spent some time involved in junior rugby league in the north west / New England region and while I would have though the Knights would have a similar influence there, they don't seem to. I think that area is primed to be tapped into in a similar way Canberra and Penrith have around here. However, it does require significant investment in time and money,eg coaching clinics, playing NRL games, setting up development squads etc.

I also think we need to look at tapping into juniors overseas having scouts based in the Pacific Islands, New Zealand and England and look to bring them over to our junior pathways early and give them a chance to develop. Look at the success of players like Gareth Widdop and Herbie Farnworth. Both were identified early and brought into Australian junior systems. We need to be looking to do that.

In a wider view, the NRL need to bring in a draft if they are serious about making a more even competition. While the main object of the draft is to give lower performing clubs first option on better juniors, what it also does is give clubs another bargaining resource apart from money. I follow the NFL heavily and trading of draft picks for established players is a huge part of their economy. It's the opposite of soccer where the richest clubs just pay huge sums for players. Every club has around the same number of draft picks so every club is on a more level playing field from a trading firepower perspective. Now not all clubs get the drafting and/or trading process right, but in my opinion that's on the clubs, not the system. I might be biased as I follow Philadelphia and their GM , Howie Roseman is a master of drafting and trading. I'd love to get him as CEO of Manly but don't think we could afford him somehow.

 

[NYEagle]

You want radical? I'll give you radical:
We merge with Newcastle and become New Manly.
We command the geography north of Sydney Harbour, through the central coast and north past Newcastle to the Queensland border. Imagine the junior talent in this region!
We play half our home matches in Newcastle and half at Brookie.
We add some blue to our jersey to embrace the Newcastle colours and come up with a design similiar to the jerseys we had when Pepsi was a sponsor.
Our logo becomes a 'Knight in Flight...'
Such a plan would improve our on-field results markedly. What is would mean for the fan bases of both clubs probably would be polarising.

How about a Knight with wings, and throw in a white horse that will bring the girls in.

Other than that, we could call ourselves the birds of steel, or he birds of steel town.

I’ve got some marketing buddies who would be happy to put some brochures and banners together.

I’m ready for the new manly new manly new manly

NYEagle

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Some good discussion on here.

Firstly the ownership. I think most would say the Penn's handling of the club has been poor. While we can't force a change of ownership, we can be more active in our discontent than we are. Protests / banners at the ground calling for a change would bring media attention to the issue. Getting the dissatisfaction in the public domain may force either a sale or a change in philosophy from Penn. Not saying it definitely will but it's worth a shot. Nothing to lose in my opinion.

Next is recruitment and pathways. We don't have the junior base on the northern beaches that a lot of clubs do. We need to expand our junior recruitment to other areas. I'm involved in junior rugby league in central west NSW. Penrith pretty much have a mortgage on juniors as far west as Dubbo, then to the south, say Cowra / Forbes down, Canberra have a strong foothold. Those two clubs invest time and money in those areas and are rewarded with the junior talent they produce. I have also spent some time involved in junior rugby league in the north west / New England region and while I would have though the Knights would have a similar influence there, they don't seem to. I think that area is primed to be tapped into in a similar way Canberra and Penrith have around here. However, it does require significant investment in time and money,eg coaching clinics, playing NRL games, setting up development squads etc.

I also think we need to look at tapping into juniors overseas having scouts based in the Pacific Islands, New Zealand and England and look to bring them over to our junior pathways early and give them a chance to develop. Look at the success of players like Gareth Widdop and Herbie Farnworth. Both were identified early and brought into Australian junior systems. We need to be looking to do that.

In a wider view, the NRL need to bring in a draft if they are serious about making a more even competition. While the main object of the draft is to give lower performing clubs first option on better juniors, what it also does is give clubs another bargaining resource apart from money. I follow the NFL heavily and trading of draft picks for established players is a huge part of their economy. It's the opposite of soccer where the richest clubs just pay huge sums for players. Every club has around the same number of draft picks so every club is on a more level playing field from a trading firepower perspective. Now not all clubs get the drafting and/or trading process right, but in my opinion that's on the clubs, not the system. I might be biased as I follow Philadelphia and their GM , Howie Roseman is a master of drafting and trading. I'd love to get him as CEO of Manly but don't think we could afford him somehow.

I love the idea of a junior draft , the AFL do it SO
MUCH BETTER , than we do.

A good example , mate of mine is a Richmond Tigers tragic.

They were so so good a few years ago , won I think 2-3 GF’s in a row but then their aging roster all retired and they’re suddenly wooden spooners.

They then get the top picks in the junior draft.

Now they still are down the bottom but they are improving , their youngsters are learning all the time and it won’t be too long and they’ll be a force again.

I get why the rich clubs are successful , not only can they pay whatever for the best players , but they get unfettered access to all the best juniors as well.

But as we know , VLandy’s & Uncle Nick come from the same Greek Island so nothing will change.

 

[Rocky]

The blueprint should be obvious - Manly should be gearing everything with a focus on 2027 and beyond. While we have Tom and Jake on $2.5m or whatever stupid number it is, we are only spinning our tyres at best for 2026.

Here is what should happen (but wont of course)

2025 3 games left

• Give Joey Walsh some game time and give Navale as many minutes as possible
• Give Koula some games at 1 to see if he can make the position his own.

2025 - off season

• Fire Seibold and hire Matt Ballin.
• Only extend Jake and Tom at a number that suits the club. Jake $300-$400k and turbo $500-600k. Otherwise Jake can join the coaching staff and turbo can go to England
• Prioritise signing a starting quality edge and prop for 2027.
• See if you can resign Tommy Talau for 300-400k and see if there is a taker for Saab and offload him if so.
• Medically retire Aloiai and Croker and sign a forward for 2026 with that money (around 600k?)

For 2026 i would work to this best 17 (assuming no other big signings). Ok we aren't winning the comp but it is what is when you have no salary cap left

1. Koula
2. Talau
3. Hoppa
4. Turbo
5. Garrick
6. Brooks (or Walsh)
7. Fogarty

13. Navale
12. Burbo
11. Haumole
10. Jake (40 minutes per game)
9. Simpkin
8. TKO

Bench

14. Paseka
15. Bullemor
16. X forward with the Aloiai/Croker money
17. X Youngster (Zaidas/Hart/etc) or Paul Bryan

 

[The Wheel]

The blueprint should be obvious - Manly should be gearing everything with a focus on 2027 and beyond. While we have Tom and Jake on $2.5m or whatever stupid number it is, we are only spinning our tyres at best for 2026.

Here is what should happen (but wont of course)

2025 3 games left

• Give Joey Walsh some game time and give Navale as many minutes as possible
• Give Koula some games at 1 to see if he can make the position his own.

2025 - off season

• Fire Seibold and hire Matt Ballin.
• Only extend Jake and Tom at a number that suits the club. Jake $300-$400k and turbo $500-600k. Otherwise Jake can join the coaching staff and turbo can go to England
• Prioritise signing a starting quality edge and prop for 2027.
• See if you can resign Tommy Talau for 300-400k and see if there is a taker for Saab and offload him if so.
• Medically retire Aloiai and Croker and sign a forward for 2026 with that money (around 600k?)

For 2026 i would work to this best 17 (assuming no other big signings). Ok we aren't winning the comp but it is what is when you have no salary cap left

1. Koula
2. Talau
3. Hoppa
4. Turbo
5. Garrick
6. Brooks (or Walsh)
7. Fogarty

13. Navale
12. Burbo
11. Haumole
10. Jake (40 minutes per game)
9. Simpkin
8. TKO

Bench

14. Paseka
15. Bullemor
16. X forward with the Aloiai/Croker money
17. X Youngster (Zaidas/Hart/etc) or Paul Bryan

That should be the blue print - send to Mestrov 😉😃🦅