The sum of us: Rugby league hero Steve Mortimer proud of his son's gay union

Ralphie said:
Do you know what Rex I have better things to do with my time than indulge in a slanging match when neither of us will ever agree.

My final word on this topic, I have made it clear that I have no problem with two people quietly going about their business, but you seem unable to accept that.
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Then why are you having trouble saying it Ralphie? When you say "I have no problem with two people quietly going about their business", it could mean just about anything. The authenticity doesn't come through. It's gives the appearance you can't bring yourself to say it, like the words get stuck in your throat.

If you said something overt and clear it would be unambiguous - something like "I accept, and am happy when two people love each other. And it doesn't matter to me whether those people are two heterosexuals or two gay men, or two lesbian women. I see that intolerance of lesbians and gay people loving each other in the same way that heterosexuals do is a remnant of our ignorant, harmful, knuckle-dragging past"

Of course, you choose your own words and thoughts, and you choose when you show heart.

Ralphie said:
I have stated clearly I have a problem with the overt BS that's going on here and such things as Mardi Gras and labeling people as having phobia's for disagreeing with you. As a father I absolutely have the right to judge what I will teach my kids and I am no more going to teach my son it's Ok to parade half naked down the street simulating sex acts (ala Mardi Gras) than I am likely to teach my daughter its Ok to participate in wet T-Shirt competitions.
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This is a great example of you finding the words to express your thoughts emotively, unambiguously and clearly. What's the difference in that you're not being able to be equally clear, emotive and unambiguous in support of gays? Maybe because you aren't?

Ralphie said:
We ALL make judgements everyday and to deny that is to be utterly deluded.
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Totally agree we ALL make judgements everyday - depending on your definition of "judgements".

The type of judgement (aka discernment, evaluation, etc) which causes us to not walk in front of a bus is essential.

The type of judgement (aka blame, shame, etc) which intolerant, moralistic people use to cause gays and lesbians to fear for their safety is not.

Ralphie said:
I'll close with a quick story. I have a friend who is a psychologist with all the stereotypical left views on these matters. In the context of a discussion about the schools program in the media lately he recounted a story of an unnamed year 12 patient of 17 years old who had attempted suicide. He was an awkward kid, a little overweight and just a little socially inept. He had attempted numerous heterosexual relationships but had been rebuffed each time. After being assured it was Ok and normal to be gay he entered a gay relationship with all that entails. This messed him up to the point of suicide and my lefty friend wondered aloud whether he would be in this situation if the world wasn't making such a loud big deal out of it as it is now. He says similar stories are not at all uncommon.

I don't know what the right balance is but telling kids this stuff can have some pretty damaging side effects.

I'm done with this now and you have judged me anyway so I'll move on to footy.
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Finally, you've jumped out of theories - your right to teach your kids, moral standards, blah, blah, blah. And you've given a human example. I do applaud that. And when we drop theories and prejudgements to look closely at the substance of what has happened in cases like this rather than just wondering, then we'll make some real progress.

To privilege concern for the impact on real people - that is compassion. I look forward to you overtly showing compassion to other real people - lesbian and gays - who's treatment by our society has led to innumerable murders and suicides.

Compassion is when you privilege the real human over the theory. That is the problem I see with your moralism - it privileges the theory over the real human.
 
Wombat Legacy said:
TC voices an opinion-the PC throng gather to tell TC how wrong he is-TC articulates his beliefs and values-the throng are not accepting of this-TC holds his ground-just another day on ST....
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You make it sound like we're discussing the pros and cons of 4 cylinder engines. Not real human issues. Not real human pains and suicides. And that the important thing here in your PC world is that everyone here agrees, or accepts others' opinions. Maybe social attitudes don't change without disturbance, eh? Without people being willing to be simplistically labelled PC by you.

Sitting on the sidelines sniping doesn't make you look any smarter you know.
 
Garts said:
If it was parade of hetro guys and girls behaving the same way I bet you would not be so vocal about having the behaviour toned down. I wonder why that would be.
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Funny that you make that point Garts - Mardi Gras in New Orleans and Rio's Carnivale are, from what I understand, 'non-gay' events where pretty much the same scantily-clad, suggestive dancing occurs. But nobody seems to have an issue with those events?
 
Rex said:
Did you think I meant I had judged - or discerned - or noticed - you as being derogatory about Manly players? Nope.
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Well stop talking in riddles and say what you think. As you previously indicated the written word can be a very poor medium to communicate ideas.

Your replies are starting to fall well below your normal standard, when you come back with that pointless response. I have been taking your comments and opinions at face value and have ignored the fact that you don't answer my questions, or respond to my assertions.

when you spend two small paragraphs pontificating about the evil of name calling, spreading ill-will , then proudly declare this forum a team. It would be difficult to think other than you have judged. Your snide nope, is not lost on me.

I was beginning to hope for intelligent exchanges that made me ponder and reconsider, instead I think you enjoy the thrust and parry of arguement, without ever really considering the content.
 
Rex said:
You make it sound like we're discussing the pros and cons of 4 cylinder engines. Not real human issues. Not real human pains and suicides. And that the important thing here in your PC world is that everyone here agrees, or accepts others' opinions. Maybe social attitudes don't change without disturbance, eh? Without people being willing to be simplistically labelled PC by you.

Sitting on the sidelines sniping doesn't make you look any smarter you know.
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I have plenty of compassion and love for many different kinds of people in this world, including people who criticise other people's faith. That seems to be quite acceptable nowadays. I read with great interest and compassion posts from @sheridanstand78 & @Budgewoi Eagle, and applaud their stoicity and bravery.
You Rex, on the other hand, are just a squabbling, agitating protagonist who has a day to day penchant for singling out those posters who you disagree with, for your Kum Ba Yah enlightenment sessions.
And for what it's worthy Rexy Poo, I am an infrequent visitor here - but a quick flick through some threads highlights you as the grandstanding, argumentative bloke you seem to be. Rubbishing peoples intelligence that you don't even know. Have fun Rexy-I am sure you find the attention too hard to ignore :tmi::h:@:p
 
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Woodsie said:
See, now I have to accuse you of discrimination against the other 15 teams.
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I usually hate everybody equally, apart from the wide ranging spectrum of Manly fans, who I tend to accept at face value, regardless of their significant other......plus I've got a bad history in the morality dept.
 
Woodsie said:
Well stop talking in riddles and say what you think. As you previously indicated the written word can be a very poor medium to communicate ideas.

Your replies are starting to fall well below your normal standard, when you come back with that pointless response. I have been taking your comments and opinions at face value and have ignored the fact that you don't answer my questions, or respond to my assertions.

when you spend two small paragraphs pontificating about the evil of name calling, spreading ill-will , then proudly declare this forum a team. It would be difficult to think other than you have judged. Your snide nope, is not lost on me.

I was beginning to hope for intelligent exchanges that made me ponder and reconsider, instead I think you enjoy the thrust and parry of arguement, without ever really considering the content.
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Woodsie, you asked for frankness so here it is.

I heard in your reply that you interpreted what I had said in ways I never meant to be taken. And as personal criticisms in ways which were not intended as personal criticisms. The first thing I wanted to say was that how you interpreted what I said was not what I was trying to communicate. That is the reason for the curt response - which you have now seen as snide.

The team comments were not a pointed comment at you specifically. If they appeared that way through my poor expression, then my bad. I was responding to you wanting and encouraging me to see people as cockheads. I was saying that seeing others as cockheads - judging (i.e. pointing the finger and blaming/ridiculing) them in that way - was unhelpful and was not team-spirited (looking at everyone else as part of our greater team). So the team comments I made were an attack, if you like, on the mindset (the pretty standard mindset in our society) of looking at others as not part of our greater team. Sport can help us to see the world in team-spirited ways.

You identified "it" as all starting with your laughing with ricardo and then labelling Thorpie as a cockhead. The way I see it, is that Thorpe was widely regarded as a national hero. Not by all, mainly because of suspicions about his sexuality, but generally seen that way. Then he did that interview and came out. Very quickly, the cockhead-type comments took off. Totally predictable really. This prejudice is why sportsmen are afraid to come out. So your comment, naming our most famous out-of-the-closet sportsman as a cockhead, in the context of a thread about prejudice against gays, was IMO ill-conceived if you wished to show support to gays, and in particular to gay members of our forum. For that reason I supported the response that immediately followed, even whilst it caused you to go on a rather abusive and inaccurate rant against one of the most respected members of this forum.
 
Wombat Legacy said:
I have plenty of compassion and love for many different kinds of people in this world, including people who criticise other people's faith. That seems to be quite acceptable nowadays. I read with great interest and compassion posts from @sheridanstand78 & @Budgewoi Eagle, and applaud their stoicity and bravery.
You Rex, on the other hand, are just a squabbling, agitating protagonist who has a day to day penchant for singling out those posters who you disagree with, for your Kum Ba Yah enlightenment sessions.
And for what it's worthy Rexy Poo, I am an infrequent visitor here - but a quick flick through some threads highlights you as the grandstanding, argumentative bloke you seem to be. Rubbishing peoples intelligence that you don't even know. Have fun Rexy-I am sure you find the attention too hard to ignore :tmi::h:@:p
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If I needed your approval Wombat Legacy then your little rant may concern me. It doesn't. I worked out your agenda and methods long ago. Everything you accuse me of you display in spades in your postings, the above one being a good example. It is called hypocrisy.

You think that belittling people with your constant PC accusations, kum-ba yah accusations shows your intelligence? It just shows you've lost the plot. That you cannot argue through logic. That you've run out of thoughts. That you're out of your depth.

Instead of labelling everyone who challenged TC's arguments as PC, you could take a little time, and think about substance rather than superficialities, and then contribute some actual thought.

When you proactively show real compassion - not attaching your "compassion" to a self-defence strategy, designed to make the defence more credible - then I will recognise that compassion. Your "compassion" prior to this little self-defence strategy was to actively support those attacking gays, and actively poo-poo those on the other side as being merely PC. Nice try.
 
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