The ruck interpretation kills us

[maxta]

I see Manly lose on both sides of the coin in recent seasons
In attack, opposition like NZ tonight, seem to get away with holding us down.
I feel every supporter can claim this at times, but when it happens to Manly, it continues all game and there are errors and pushed plays in the back of it making it twice as frustrating and gassing out our defence even more.

The only answer, apart from blaming officials which is a No Win situation, is to show more urgency
Manly have a real lack of fight to play the ball and in fact spend more time appealing to the ref than fighting to play it ??
I mean the more you fight to play it quickly, the less time defence has to lay around and can win penalties/ momentum

Secondly in defence, the opposition so often creep off the mark and play it behind our markers...often like NZ tonight and Melbourne get away with it every game and you can bet they practice it and NZ looked up the blueprint tonight


The answer here imo, is the Manly defence have not had enough control in the tackle to totally stop the attacking momentum and the attacking player sets the mark "1 - 2 metres upfield" as they are winning the ruck contest and our markers have not been dominant enough to set the mark....if the defence controls the tackle the marker will "always" be first up and set a mark, but due to the attacker winning this battle, for right or wrong, they then also dictate where the ball is played....Manly need to get on this soon, or every team will take advantage of our gentleman door service at the play the ball area like NZ did tonight and the ruck is always going to be the key to winning footy games

 

[mave]

We are a flashy team, with little interest in doing the hard stuff.....and have been for a decade or so.

We actively refuse to get into any sort of grinding footy, despite that being the blueprint to winning comps every year in living memory except 2005.

It all starts at the ruck, as you say, and our overall style of play is not focused on winning the ruck.....we are a fist tackle chip and chase style of team.

Maybe we just need more weapons to overcome our refusal to get down and dirty.

 

[The '47ers]

Didn't see the game, only radio in and out of the work ute but sounds like Jake has a lot of "ruck interpretation" problems. The commentators said he'd given away five 6 agains before his binning?

 

[Bringbackcliffy]

Didn't see the game, only radio in and out of the work ute but sounds like Jake has a lot of "ruck interpretation" problems. The commentators said he'd given away five 6 agains before his binning?

He always does, his lack of pace isn’t just with the ball

 

[maxta]

He always does, his lack of pace isn’t just with the ball

Jake can make a good tackle, but like some other Manly forwards, looks sluggish in controlling the attacker who seem to find their feet first and play it while he is struggling to even get up to assume the market position, therefore handing the dominance in the ruck to the attacking team and making himself offside, along with his team mates still trundling back onside....which creates that momentum through the middle and adds pressure then to the edges in a snowball effect

 

[Dion Johnson]

He was perfect against the Cowboys Jake with his discipline, he had one penalty against him and two ruck infringements against the Warriors, Jake looked liked he needed a rest before halftime, don’t know why he wasn’t on the line for 10-15 minutes. Waddell could have played more minutes.

 

[maxta]

He was perfect against the Cowboys Jake with his discipline, he had one penalty against him and two ruck infringements against the Warriors, Jake looked liked he needed a rest before halftime, don’t know why he wasn’t on the line for 10-15 minutes. Waddell could have played more minutes.

I agree looked far better last week Dion, but I reckon like his other forwards, they got shellshocked by the NZ tempo last night and almost were "ambushed"...really struggling to recover or get into rhythm.
I hate excuses, but seen many similar and worse defensive grabs/holds down the other end yet at 1 stage was 9 repeat sets to 0 and this will 100% add fatigue to any defence....Penrith had similar against Roosters and were exploited.
But thing is, there will be days like this and Manly need to be able to combat the situation better.....I mean after defending 10 minutes straight, why are the outside backs not taking the hitups and scoots that set, winning some quick play balls and gaining good field position for a good kick/chase to get back into the grind ?
Manly seem to go "Ok we got the ball back, lets take 2 settlers and shift sideways" which led to clunky sets, errors and little gain, as the shift is far more effective after winning the middle, which we hardly done.....
I love the pretty attacking formula of Manly - great entertainment, but time and place.
Against an up beat, high energy defence like NZ had going on, there is no choice but to take a few bruises in the process.

 

[jbb/james]

Jake gets done because of his legs defence. So hard to dominate the ruck when he is often the only one in it. Beautiful technique but the game has shyed away from that defence being effective once the player is down . Too easy to get up and play the ball.

Doesnt get rewarded enough with dominant tackles. In fact that aspect of the game kind of disappeared trying to outlaw lifting. So hard to finish on top of the player instead of underneath

 

[Michael Clare]

I see Manly lose on both sides of the coin in recent seasons
In attack, opposition like NZ tonight, seem to get away with holding us down.
I feel every supporter can claim this at times, but when it happens to Manly, it continues all game and there are errors and pushed plays in the back of it making it twice as frustrating and gassing out our defence even more.

The only answer, apart from blaming officials which is a No Win situation, is to show more urgency
Manly have a real lack of fight to play the ball and in fact spend more time appealing to the ref than fighting to play it ??
I mean the more you fight to play it quickly, the less time defence has to lay around and can win penalties/ momentum

Secondly in defence, the opposition so often creep off the mark and play it behind our markers...often like NZ tonight and Melbourne get away with it every game and you can bet they practice it and NZ looked up the blueprint tonight


The answer here imo, is the Manly defence have not had enough control in the tackle to totally stop the attacking momentum and the attacking player sets the mark "1 - 2 metres upfield" as they are winning the ruck contest and our markers have not been dominant enough to set the mark....if the defence controls the tackle the marker will "always" be first up and set a mark, but due to the attacker winning this battle, for right or wrong, they then also dictate where the ball is played....Manly need to get on this soon, or every team will take advantage of our gentleman door service at the play the ball area like NZ did tonight and the ruck is always going to be the key to winning footy games

That is a brilliant analysis. My only hope is that 1) our head coach reads this post and applies a remedy or 2) The NRL cracks down on "moving off the mark" which ought to be a penalty! Bellamy has been training Storm to do this for years I suspect. Also, there should be a time limit for getting off a tackled player. Perhaps three seconds which could be counted by ref or another official or possibly video ref.

 

[BOZO]

Bellamy has been training Storm to do this for years

Results Driven coaches like Bellamy have been Winning for years
Successful head coaches are innovators of the game
They identify teams /players weaknesses and develop and Inspire winnable solutions
This is why they Win more often .

 

[BOZO]

Change the Head coach
You Change the Club Culture
You Change how the players play
You change the results for better of for worse
Subject to the better or worse Head coach you Hire

 

[BOZO]

.
I love the pretty attacking formula of Manly - great entertainment, but time and place.
Against an up beat, high energy defence like NZ had going on, there is no choice but to take a few bruises in the process.

You are not only a Great Singer feathered friend @maxta
You are also a Great analytical thinker
As you brightly and rightly say ...
Not Every game plan fits Every on field Battle
From the onset of last night game we failed to realize this and continued with the same ineffective play which costs us the game
There was no Plan B instruction's coming from the coaches box
The coach just sat there like a stunned mullet and saw it all unfold

We are not Stunned Mullets
We are Sensational Sea eagles !
Lets Live up to our Legendary clubs Benchmark of Premiership Winning Greatness

 

[jbb/james]

Change the Head coach
You Change the Club Culture
You Change how the players play
You change the results for better of for worse
Subject to the better or worse Head coach you Hire

Agree but we have changed coaches 3 times and the culture is still the same

It needs to come from higher with this group. The CEO , the owner need to ensure the coach is protected 100% . Without this a coach is at the mercy of the playing group . We probably need to understand we need to have a few lean years but results driven business still rings loudly .

Too often the hierarchy blink first and our last 3 coaching stints before seibs ended very ugly all for different reason . That is the culture we need to fix , probably first

 

[BOZO]

Agree but we have changed coaches 3 times and the culture is still the same

Yes we have changed three coaches
1.Barret
2. The once great Mad professor who lost the plot
and now Seibold
That is why things are still the same
Barret is now only an assistant
Des is Destroying the Titans
And Seibs is Sinking Manly as we saw last night

 

[BOZO]

Is Manly Losing the End of the World ?
For Many Proud and Passionate Manly Souls it feels like it
The day after losing feels like this
For those that have no idea what the pain of Manly losing feels like

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Sadly referees have the ability to significantly affect the momentum of games. I was shaking my head at most of the six again calls trying to figure out what they were for. I felt the warriors were no better than us around the ruck. Having said that we played ourselves further into as hole by not respecting possession or our opposition.

 

[jbb/james]

Yes we have changed three coaches
1.Barret
2. The once great Mad professor who lost the plot
and now Seibold
That is why things are still the same
Barret is now only an assistant
Des is Destroying the Titans
And Seibs is Sinking Manly as we saw last night

With Penn in charge successful DES was not retained
And tooves, despite his record
Also remember Barrett sacked us

Someone hired and fired all the others too as well as 24 CEO’s.
The second coming of DES as the recent out of court settlement shows, was poor business and more about EGO than results
rainbow gate ended a season

At the end of the day its hard to polish a terd without the proper tools. i agree bellamy or bennett are the tools but we have buckleys
Im all for improving our coach if we can find a better one but what draws a coach to Manly.
FMD madge knocked us back for the above reasons

In saying that seibs has not used everything at his disposal because it seems happy teams keep the coach employed. That is our problem in my view. The Incentive based contracts at manly seem smart but it stifles growth when coaches are picking, sticking and recruiting for there immediate safety as opposed to real improvement

We need a clean out but for the coaches the incentive to do so is counter productive to their own finances, especially as our group are the nicest bunch if people on the planet, honestly. . what would it do to our membership base

The Manly of old had one agenda. To kick arse on the footy field. The current owner has much more on his mind , we are just part of his overall strategy really

I still agree with what you say mate but understand there are other ways to get better besides the coach ,

 

[BOZO]

I still agree with what you say mate but understand there are other ways to get better besides the coach ,

Thank you for your posts and views fathered friend
I agree Every one at Manly is Accountable

The Fans are accountable to support their club where it counts , Membership Merchandise and Match day Attendance
The Head Office is Accountable to make the right decisions off filed
The Head Coach is Accountable to make the right decisions on field

NO Bastard is spared
We are all Accountable
and we are here to Keep the Bastards Honest
We do not Condone a Mediocre Manly club

 

[Rafferty]

We are a flashy team, with little interest in doing the hard stuff.....and have been for a decade or so.

We actively refuse to get into any sort of grinding footy, despite that being the blueprint to winning comps every year in living memory except 2005.

It all starts at the ruck, as you say, and our overall style of play is not focused on winning the ruck.....we are a fist tackle chip and chase style of team.

Maybe we just need more weapons to overcome our refusal to get down and dirty.

I agree.

I also think we just don’t have the caliber of players that want to get down and dirty.

Last night was a perfect example.

This weapons first mentality is not a premiership winning formula, furthermore thinking we are in a premiership window with our roster and how they play their footy, is off with the pixies.

 

[davohan123]

I agree.

I also think we just don’t have the caliber of players that want to get down and dirty.

Last night was a perfect example.

This weapons first mentality is not a premiership winning formula, furthermore thinking we are in a premiership window with our roster and how they play their footy, is off with the pixies.

And I think sadly management and alot of our players think we / they are in a title window which is not the case like you say.

Until we can start winning ugly playing though grinding style of footy like panthers and storm we are never going to get close to a title.

I love this club but last night was a true reminder of where we sit.