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The quick tap and markers square conundrum.

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by globaleagle, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. globaleagle

    globaleagle Où est mon chapeau Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

    +7,920 /58
    Dear Manly elite,

    Two issues I've noticed recently and instead of making 2 threads for no one to read I've combined them in one slim looking thread.

    Firstly: The quick tap.

    To wrap myself, I just knew the referees would not adjust their refereeing style to accommodate the intent of this new rule's implementation.

    In the NRL's effort to speed up the game, and get more football played in the 80 mins a rule allowing players to take a quick tap after certain infringements was introduced.

    The referee has to 'give the mark' as to where the player can take a quick tap.

    The only thing not quick about this is the referee actually giving the mark!

    Union has it all over league in this respect; to the point that as long as the player taps it around where the infringement occurred, their ref's allow the game to flow and play on is ruled.

    The NRL refs have to realise, again, that the game isn't about them and either point to the mark immediately, and or allow the game to continue as long as the player taking the tap hasn't run metre's away from the mark before doing so.

    This can be easily fixed with a bit of education for our esteemed referees. Again, I just knew they wouldn't get it when I read about the rule but I'm still surprised that part 1 of the rule can be brought in (quick taps allowed) but part 2 is never discussed (refs, make sure you give the mark quickly). Let's hope it's fixed soon.

    Secondly: Marker's square.

    This should not be a penalty anymore. The game has matured of late by not penalising players passing the ball after the call of held from the ref's. Instead they are made to replay the ball. Everyone likes the rule, there's no dramas.

    Marker's not being square has become a subjective interpretation from the referee's visual standpoint. I'm not sure if the rule book states in centimetre terms what entails a square marker, and the angle of the referee to the player can confuse the true angle of the player marking up (similar to the reason why video ref's can't adjudicate on forward passes.)

    The problem I have with a penalty given for this infringement is that it is a subjective call which at its worst allows a biased referee to massively help his desired side. Looking at one of Buhrer's penalties for not being square...he could not have been any more square if he had a....set square to mark out his territory.

    It's becoming a massive penalty for a minor infraction. These days balls can be kicked easily upwards of 50 metres giving the team receiving the penalty huge gains in field position.

    Quite often the ref does not 'have time' to warn the offending player and the first the player knows they are not square in the ref's eyes is when the whistle blows.

    It's too easily (again, at its worst) for ref's to piggy back their favoured team out of trouble.

    Before the ref's act all indignant at that comment, remember that Bill Harrigan, the games most respected ref admitted upon his retirement that he and all ref's go into games with preconceived bias towards certain players who they, again, perceive to be habitual perpetrators of certain illegal moves. IE: They targeted players for penalties.

    Just like the video ref can not adjudicate on forward passes (the knights and Canberra should be thankful for that as yesterday's game would have finished 0-0), it's a bit much in this new age of a fast game that on field ref's can correctly judge to the centimetre if a player is marking square or not.

    Either call the player out of the play (then you can penalise if he makes a tackle) or replay the ball.

    After all, shouldn't the NRL be striving to allow the players the decide the result of games, and not the referees?
    • Like Like x 2
    • manlyfan76

      manlyfan76 Parra Trolls are the best. Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

      Anywhere but Parramatta
      +5,563 /119
      If they wanted a fast game they should have gone to unlimited interchanges.
    • Frogz

      Frogz Well-Known Member Premium Member

      Sydney, Australia
      +1,466 /38
      Try making everyone pass backwards would be a good start....God there were some forward passes over the weekend, un noticed by the geese in pink.
      • Like Like x 1
      • maxta

        maxta Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

        Toowoomba, Queensland
        +2,506 /63
        This is a valid point...
        Firstly the refs need to control that ruck area, it should start with a correct play the ball as often the attacking player takes steps off the mark making the marker who is square offside.
        The offender is often the attacker....watch Dogs tonight, every set in most tackles & seem to get away with it.
        • Like Like x 1
        • SeaEagleRock8

          SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

          +6,929 /125
          Nice write-up GE.
          On the markers not square, I think it's a big advantage to the defence if markers don't have to be square, but another idea would be just make this a differential penalty, so no kick for touch or goal?
          I like the idea of telling them to stay out of play rather than just penalise them, but as you say, things happen very fast so not always time for that.
          • Like Like x 2
          • Moondog

            Moondog Amazing Blue Footed Boobie Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

            Hervey Bay
            +3,674 /32
            "This can be easily fixed with a bit of education for our esteemed referees."
            Educating this lot may be a bit of a stretch.
            I'd be thinking more along the lines of a quick trip down to Taronga Park Zoo, grab a few of the chimpanzees, dress them in pink, wave the rule book at them and let them loose on the field next weekend.
            The standard of refereeing would be bound to improve. The NRL can pay them peanuts and everybody will wonder why we did'nt do it years ago...
            • Like Like x 1
            • Brissie Kid

              Brissie Kid Well-Known Member

              +852 /10
              The problem with going all out giving quick taps is the offending team can't tackle anyone unless they were back 10m in the first place. It's not like RU. The NRL want a quick tap from the 40/20 where the player taking the tap will probably get there first and have no defenders in front of him at all. How is that rugby league?

              As for the referees and square markers. I heard on 2KY that the referees boss said the attacking player walking ahead over the mark was not a worry as it shortens the 10m and they are therefore only hurting their own team.

              Problem is it takes the markers out of play and then the referees penalise them for not being square or making a tackle.

              Same when Jared hargraves and Fifita play tunnel ball to get super quick play the balls. They don't get penalised but the markers they put at a disadvantage do.
            • HappilyManly

              HappilyManly MWTS Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

              +11,495 /254
              Watched the replay and the first two Buhrer 'marker not square' penalty was a figment of The Echidna's imagination. :mad:

              Maybe the solution is to only have a single marker.

              I don't understand the latitude of Souths walking off the mark to play the ball, only to be called back to replay the ball.
              Whereas the Marker who is made offside by the Attacking Player moving to the side in playing the ball, is not given that benefit :huh:

              Souths, Easts and Scumos constantly do this, along with their forward passes from dummy half - it is a feature of their play :dodgy:
            • The Who

              The Who Well-Known Member

              Mona Vale
              +4,957 /104
              The two-markers penalty is just one of many minor penalties that can be given and the 'punishment' - a kick for touch and then six tackles - does not fit the 'crime'.
              The simple fix is to stop the kick into touch for all 'minor' infringements, which can gain up to 40 metres. Only foul play infringements should carry the double penalty of a touch finder and six tackles to go.
              Penalties are having such a huge impact on RL matches that often the best team is losing.
            • Frogz

              Frogz Well-Known Member Premium Member

              Sydney, Australia
              +1,466 /38
              Then the other joke is that the 2nd marker stands back about 2-3 metres and is still allowed to get involved and not penalised...Storm are the best at this...but all do it....
            • lismore_fan

              lismore_fan Well-Known Member

              +206 /1
              1. "the attacking player walking ahead over the mark was not a worry as it shortens the 10m and they are therefore only hurting their own team. "

              My beef with this move is, it sounds alright, but the refs move back 10m from the player playing the ball, therefore the 'walking off the mark' is still rewarded.

              2. "Either call the player out of the play (then you can penalise if he makes a tackle) or replay the ball."

              I like this.

              Manly are too often penalised for infringements in the 'play the ball' area and the teams that blatantly stretch the rules rarely get punished.
            • Chip and Chase

              Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

              +6,298 /44
              If you make them replay the ball then there is no incentive to get square. The defence is trying to slow down the attack so why wouldn't you be not square and force another play the ball and give your line time to get set ?

              I'm OK with penalties for not square at marker PROVIDING the clowns penalise the attacking team when they walk off the mark. It just doesn't happen, i swear Slater and Inglis play the ball illegally 90% of the time, but they are far from the only culprits. very frustrating aspect of the game.
              • Like Like x 1
              • Brissie Kid

                Brissie Kid Well-Known Member

                +852 /10
                So this it peoples. The NRL thinks a try scored against a defence with zero players to beat is worth applauding as exciting action.

                bwahahahaha!!!! Some seriously whacked logic.

                I'm thinking for 2015 maybe on the last tackle in each set the defending team must all immediately sit down on the field and only be allowed to ankle tap any opponent that runs with the ball near them. This would make for exciting tries in the NRL.
              • maxta

                maxta Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

                Toowoomba, Queensland
                +2,506 /63
                I get the shortening of the 10m part lismore as this takes time of the ball carrier & their decision time.
                The thing is in 2014 its the dummy half scoots that can change the momentum of a game & if you destroy the defenders midfield behind that ruck, the defensive frailties will be prominent out wide , on the fringes & up the middle....I can see this becoming a bigger issue as the season plays out including tries from close range dummy half runs with the marker obstructed.
              • mike walker

                mike walker Well-Known Member

                +556 /2
                g'day all,Its been a pet hate of mine for years that referees are not as nitpicking on the man playing the ball as they are on markers or the defensive team in general.Remember a couple of years ago they had a crackdown that lasted about 3 rounds I don't know why they gave up on it,maybe the coaches didn't like it.You always use to hear them say play it with your foot and still not penalise civoniceva was the worst offender but blokes like moa and fifita make him look like a technician.Make them play the ball according to the rules(did anyone else hear rabbits justify souths second try where the bloke dropped the ball in the play the ball by saying you could drop the ball or place it on the ground)and get rid of the stripping rule while they're at it.
                cheers mike
              • Jethro

                Jethro This space is for rent Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

                +1,900 /7
                Not if you refer to:


                NOTES ON THE LAWS AND
                FEBRUARY 2014"

                Page 26.

                Section 11. The Tackle and Play-the-Ball

                Paragraph 10 which states:

                (b) The tackled player shall without delay regain his feet where he was tackled, lift the ball clear of the ground, face his opponent's goal line and place the ball on the ground in front of his foremost foot.
              • globaleagle

                globaleagle Où est mon chapeau Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

                +7,920 /58
                Mike, I also heard rabs talk about that. Though the rule Jethro just posted seems pretty clear...

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