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lsz

First Grader
Staff member
Hold my beer ...

Don't you think that the virtue signallers who decided without consultation or second thought, that it would be a good idea to put a known group of Christians with strong convictions on the spot. A group that hadn't publicly voiced any enmity to anyone ... and most probably never would have ... caused hurt ?

Don't you think having their character, convictions, religion and integrity suffer the abuse, shaming and media vitriol, and eventual exclusion ... caused them and their families, their children, hurt ?

There are no winners here ... no one entitled to claim the silver chalice of virtue ...
Show me the evidence where acceptance of homosexuality equals anything like the lack of acceptance.

Happy to read the data that shows by welcoming everyone in an inclusive manner causes teen suicide or something else.

Also there is literally no point in us talking about this. You have had your say and I have had mine - I am not changing my views based on anything you say (if anything the more we “discuss” the more sure I am in my convictions) and clearly you are the same…not mentioning we are both pretty much saying the same things over and over
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
Show me the evidence where acceptance of homosexuality equals anything like the lack of acceptance.

Happy to read the data that shows by welcoming everyone in an inclusive manner causes teen suicide or something else.

Also there is literally no point in us talking about this. You have had your say and I have had mine - I am not changing my views based on anything you say (if anything the more we “discuss” the more sure I am in my convictions) and clearly you are the same…not mentioning we are both pretty much saying the same things over and over

Yep ... you are the hero again in your own narrative ..
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
This is one of the better articles I have read on how badly the Manly club actually handled Jerseygate/Rainbowgate. I didn't actually read it at the time, but I am sure many on here (from all sides of the equation) will find it interesting.
for any Silvertailers who haven't had a look, definitely worth it. (And for anyone assuming it is anti-players, quite the opposite. The experts variously call the club's process "problematic" ... "tokenistic"....and did more harm than good)

But the part that really stood out to me was this:

"There's such strong evidence that boys and men who use homophobic and sexist language and badgering and are immersed in sexist cultures are six times [more likely] to rape a woman three years later," Denison said.

"That's because this language and this culture normalises gender-based violence. So when you call someone a 'fag' or a 'poof', that has nothing to do with the person being gay: it has to do with them being a failed man and not living up to the standards of masculinity.


That's horrendously confronting information.
 
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lsz

First Grader
Staff member
Yep ... you are the hero again in your own narrative ..
And you are a troll - each to his own.

It is a real shame the impact you and your “numb nutter” style of posting has had on so many posters. That was a let’s leave it post but of course you had to troll some more for what ever reason
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
for any Silvertailers who haven't had a look, definitely worth it. (And for anyone assuming it is anti-players, quite the opposite. The experts variously call the club's process "problematic" ... "tokenistic"....and did more harm than good)

But the part that really stood out to me was this:

"There's such strong evidence that boys and men who use homophobic and sexist language and badgering and are immersed in sexist cultures are six times [more likely] to rape a woman three years later," Denison said.

"That's because this language and this culture normalises gender-based violence. So when you call someone a 'fag' or a 'poof', that has nothing to do with the person being gay: it has to do with them being a failed man and not living up to the standards of masculinity.


That's horrendously confronting information.
but what about the homophobs? Will someone not think of them?
 

Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
but what about the homophobs? Will someone not think of them?
I am interested in how you define this and does it include the players who refused to wear the jersey? and if so do they deserve to be vilified and marginalised for this. My intention in asking this is to only understand.
 
Where is the evidence? Do I really need to go through the rate of teen suicide?

Show me any data that says being inclusive causes harm? That homophobia is a positive?
And what are the facts of teen suicide beyond high numbers and relating them in a cause and effect relationship to opposing views to yours.

For example my views on depression in no way changes my day to day behaviour towards people, i treat all people with respect in the same manner despite my opposing views or differing beliefs.

You haven't been inclusive to people having religious beliefs, your type of arrogant this is the right way mindset forced young men in the public eye who didn't want their belief systems advertised and possible mental health issues associated with the heavy public backlash they received and the anonymous threats made towards said players.

Show me rates of suicide going down over the last two decades, show me rates of depression going down in the last two decades considering the environment in this period is all about more education and knowledge on "depression" and more "inclusivity" and respect in our day to day dealings with people in a general sense relative to past decades.

There is more behind suicide stats and depression than focusing on opposing views having a big cause or any cause at all if the people who have opposing views don't try and push that agenda on others.

Me having a strong belief system of not taking recreational drugs and heavy alcohol use does not preclude me from making respectful relationships with such people who do, i'm just less likely to associate or hang around such people though.
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
I am interested in how you define this and does it include the players who refused to wear the jersey? and if so do they deserve to be vilified and marginalised for this. My intention in asking this is to only understand.
In 2023 (or 2022) if you have a religious view which means you exclude / treat people differently for something they can not choose then it is homophobic.

In terms of vilification I never think this is something that should be done. In terms of marginalisation it is a tough one as there should be consequences for people who have such harmful out of date views however I would not wish suffering on any one even if I find their views abhorrent
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
And what are the facts of teen suicide beyond high numbers and relating them in a cause and effect relationship to opposing views to yours.

For example my views on depression in no way changes my day to day behaviour towards people, i treat all people with respect in the same manner despite my opposing views or differing beliefs.

You haven't been inclusive to people having religious beliefs, your type of arrogant this is the right way mindset forced young men in the public eye who didn't want their belief systems advertised and possible mental health issues associated with the heavy public backlash they received and the anonymous threats made towards said players.

Show me rates of suicide going down over the last two decades, show me rates of depression going down in the last two decades considering the environment in this period is all about more education and knowledge on "depression" and more "inclusivity" and respect in our day to day dealings with people in a general sense relative to past decades.

There is more behind suicide stats and depression than focusing on opposing views having a big cause or any cause at all if the people who have opposing views don't try and push that agenda on others.

Me having a strong belief system of not taking recreational drugs and heavy alcohol use does not preclude me from making respectful relationships with such people who do, i'm just less likely to associate or hang around such people though.
Back to the depression stuff? Have you looked at the increased rate of suicide (quoted in this thread) of Gay teens?

Here are some New Research on LGBTQ Teen Suicide Rates


Granted it is not the only factor but tell me why it is so much higher? Also as a heterosexual sexual person I do not feel qualified to talk about a gay persons experience so will leave it to the data and say that what we are doing is not working
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
Also much the “chat” with you know who there is nothing more to be gained here. Our views (and for me core beliefs) are very far apart and there is little more to discuss after we have talked for months and months
 
You ask me a question as to "why it is so much higher", then proceed to act like a royal tosser trying to place yourself as the "mature" balanced party in these discussions with a "nothing more to be gained here", this is the kind of higher than mighty "i'm the mature more balanced inclusive individual here" that rubs people the wrong way.

Why don't you answer why the results are worsening not improving when the direction being taken is more in line with a more educated and all round approach----maybe just maybe we are on the wrong path.
 
Maybe sexual confusion or being in a sexual minority will naturally lend itself to feeling isolated and unable to relate to the majority which is out of my control, maybe there is an underlying association/ genetic predisposition with sexual orientation and depression, not saying there is but one has to look at all factors beyond just "oh opposing views has a major cause and effect"

We know in the LGTBQ+ group that the bisexual element has the highest rates in that group in relation to suicidal thoughts and suicide (Male and Female) and i totally sympathize with their struggles---i wouldn't wish such sexual confusion and struggles on anyone especially in the teen years.

In saying that my views doesn't stop me from treating "all" people with respect so i don't see why peoples views have to change if we all live in a respectful manner.

The issue is when people "push" their views with an agenda, "push" their views as "we are right they are wrong" "act" in ways that make people feel uncomfortable and not respected along with feeling not safe.

The Manly players who were subjected to the vitriol from the public may now have long lasting mental health issues to deal with, reduced financial earning capacity, growth as a player might be harmed reducing future employment in the game etc etc along with future players of a religious background might themselves go in the "closet" and not outwardly be comfortable to display their beliefs(hmm works both ways doesn't it now)

Maybe minorities in general have extra struggles that place a burden on mental health, humans don't like to feel isolated but there is only so much the majority can do to alleviate that isolation.

I just think the focus is on seeking blame and not very productive at all.
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
You ask me a question as to "why it is so much higher", then proceed to act like a royal tosser trying to place yourself as the "mature" balanced party in these discussions with a "nothing more to be gained here", this is the kind of higher than mighty "i'm the mature more balanced inclusive individual here" that rubs people the wrong way.

Why don't you answer why the results are worsening not improving when the direction being taken is more in line with a more educated and all round approach----maybe just maybe we are on the wrong path.
High praise from you.

What a shame that people need to drop into insults. Numb nuts, salad munchers and what ever other names are thrown around add nothing to the conversation or tone of the joint.

What is the point of discussing the topic anymore? You have your view and I have mine. I do not agree with your view and you do not agree with mine.

We have both posted content and ideas that neither have agreed with. Do we really need to keep going on about it? I have zero expectation that you will change your views based on what I post so what is the point for here?
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
i treat all people with respect in the same manner despite my opposing views or differing beliefs.
Really? Maybe you mean you treat all people with respect “largely always”? (as George Santos describes his record of acting above board!)
You haven’t been treating me with a great deal of respect lately. Despite me on occasion being one of your few fans here :eek::mad:
ou ask me a question as to "why it is so much higher", then proceed to act like a royal tosser
Ah, Great example of you treating people with respect, coach, yep I know we can all learn a lot from you @:D
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
What a shame that people need to drop into insults.
It's a great tactic when you don't know how to answer someone's point.

Speaking selfishly for the moment – not all who want the NRL to start education on homophobia have called for the banning/excommunication/sacking etc of the ‘reluctant 10. Yet Woodsie and Red Pill flood every discussion with their defence for the rights of players to remain homophobic as long as they like, if that is their belief system. Which has meant a never-ending flow of posts here of a type that shouldn't be let go unanswered.

Which is a major piss-off for anyone who’d rather spend their precious time on other stuff. Such as coming up with humorous observations. Or at least annoying puns.

Really makes the site a punish. And no, it's not because they disagree. It's because they (so far) have refused to conduct discussion in a respectful manner. If they're lost for logic they go to, "Ah, it's a footy site, so I'll do some good-natured banter, aka personal attacks."
 
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for any Silvertailers who haven't had a look, definitely worth it. (And for anyone assuming it is anti-players, quite the opposite. The experts variously call the club's process "problematic" ... "tokenistic"....and did more harm than good)

But the part that really stood out to me was this:

"There's such strong evidence that boys and men who use homophobic and sexist language and badgering and are immersed in sexist cultures are six times [more likely] to rape a woman three years later," Denison said.

"That's because this language and this culture normalises gender-based violence. So when you call someone a 'fag' or a 'poof', that has nothing to do with the person being gay: it has to do with them being a failed man and not living up to the standards of masculinity.


That's horrendously confronting information.
Using homophobic and sexist language is more about lacking respect for another human so naturally with disrespectful people as a whole the rates of violence against others will be higher. Weeding out the use of such language doesn't mean you weed out disrespectful types of people, it just removes one metric you can more easily measure.

There is probably a higher rate of aggression in sporting types anyway due to the competitive nature of such people, do we now advertise it in a way such as "NRL players are X times more likely to rape a woman".

In response to the "under representation of gays in male sports" yes i agree with the article but not entirely.

Now i can't really elaborate on my views because i'm basing it on personal opinion on the characteristics and maybe genetic make up of gays and lesbians that will lend itself to less gay men playing male sports(relative to the general percentage make up of the population) and the opposite with greater representation of Lesbians and Bisexual women in female sport.

Problem is in this environent such research would be seen in a bad light even if it showed conclusive evidence to the reasons behind why certain types gravitate to certain jobs, sports or hobbies etc.
 
Really? Maybe you mean you treat all people with respect “largely always”? (as George Santos describes his record of acting above board!)
You haven’t been treating me with a great deal of respect lately. Despite me on occasion being one of your few fans here :eek::mad:

Ah, Great example of you treating people with respect, coach, yep I know we can all learn a lot from you @:D
Opposing views is not disrespect, i never say "i am right others are wrong" in regards to this topic, i just express a differing viewpoint.

Others here are stating "their views are what i should conform or aim for" which is disrespectful and arrogant deserving of the tosser reply.
 
High praise from you.

What a shame that people need to drop into insults. Numb nuts, salad munchers and what ever other names are thrown around add nothing to the conversation or tone of the joint.

What is the point of discussing the topic anymore? You have your view and I have mine. I do not agree with your view and you do not agree with mine.

We have both posted content and ideas that neither have agreed with. Do we really need to keep going on about it? I have zero expectation that you will change your views based on what I post so what is the point for here?
Well that shows the problem with your thinking in a nutshell, my responses don't come from the angle of "trying to change other peoples views" i am merely stating how i see things and don't expect or care to change others.

I share my views out of "respect" to offering a different point of view---- it is the exchange of views and respecting all views that makes the world a great place to live in and learn from

We are all entitled to represent our views, that is the point......
 

Red Pill

Enthusiastic Amateur
Really makes the site a punish. And no, it's not because they disagree. It's because they (so far) have refused to conduct discussion in a respectful manner. If they're lost for logic they go to, "Ah, it's a footy site, so I'll do some good-natured banter, aka personal attacks."
SER8 you exchange jibes, insults even go as far as to make up untrue claims about other posters. For example you accused me of reposting antivaxxer materials on this site. This as you know did not happen.

If you are really serious about having productive discussions with others who don’t share the same view as yours you seriously need to review your own approach. Surely you can not be so blind to your own behaviour and how it has contributed to the dynamic you describe.

I can admit I have directed insults at others where I feel they have done the same to me. I also feel I have had some productive discussions with others who like you think very differently to me… these other posters use a somewhat different approach to you…
 
Really? Maybe you mean you treat all people with respect “largely always”? (as George Santos describes his record of acting above board!)
You haven’t been treating me with a great deal of respect lately. Despite me on occasion being one of your few fans here :eek::mad:

Ah, Great example of you treating people with respect, coach, yep I know we can all learn a lot from you @:D
And you have the stats available of who are my "few fans" and who hate my content.

I'm sure i have few fans in relation to this topic that is for sure if you want to poll from that perspective to favour your biases and stroke your ego, which doesn't bother me in the slightest.

What makes you think you have a higher fan appeal to me in relation to the overall content contributed to this site or views and clicks generated to Silvertails over the years.

See the above is an arrogant tosser statement but your attitude encourages such responses to the point they feel warranted.
 
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