The not-so Magnificent 7

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Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
I'm certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed but it seems to me that blind adherence to a religious "construct" is by definition the very meaning of irrationality.

Yes ... but there is probably 4 billion people worldwide who adhere to one reliigous construct or other ... so simply saying .. your wrong, fukk off .. is not an ideal strategy ..

Understanding, engaging, communicating and educating will go a lot further to bring about change.
 

eaglebuzz

First Grader
I'm certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed but it seems to me that blind adherence to a religious "construct" is by definition the very meaning of irrationality.
That word "blind" is pretty contentious. I'd say in this day and age there are far more people in the West blindly adhering to atheism than religion. If by blind you mean not thinking (critically or otherwise) about their beliefs.
 
I don't understand why people don't get it, the promotion is a form of preaching and most people don't like being preached to full stop.

I don't preach my beliefs to people to promote acceptance or convert people over and never will, i will state my beliefs but not under the guise of "this is how it has to be" more "this is how i see it".

Promoting inclusivity encourages exclusiveness and more divisions by building on pride.

As Morgan Freeman stated "are you going to relegate my history to a month" in relation to black month promotions and to---- How are we going to get rid of racism? "stop talking about it".

We can all live together with different belief systems just don't push it onto others or preach it as the way it has to be.
 

Ned

Bencher
I don't understand why people don't get it, the promotion is a form of preaching and most people don't like being preached to full stop.

I don't preach my beliefs to people to promote acceptance or convert people over and never will, i will state my beliefs but not under the guise of "this is how it has to be" more "this is how i see it".

Promoting inclusivity encourages exclusiveness and more divisions by building on pride.

As Morgan Freeman stated "are you going to relegate my history to a month" in relation to black month promotions and to---- How are we going to get rid of racism? "stop talking about it".

We can all live together with different belief systems just don't push it onto others or preach it as the way it has to be.
Yep, they remind me of this.
FfnwEKfaUAEJWIk.jpg
 

silvereagle

Reserve Grader
Well looks like Seibold and Mestrov have declared their hand here by extending the contracts for most of the players involved. I assume this means they have opted to go for my Option 1 ie. Do Nothing and cross the 2023 bridge if(??) when (!!) it comes up again. Good luck to them on this approach. I would have taken a different approach but then again I am not Seibold nor Mestrov.
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
Well looks like Seibold and Mestrov have declared their hand here by extending the contracts for most of the players involved. I assume this means they have opted to go for my Option 1 ie. Do Nothing and cross the 2023 bridge if(??) when (!!) it comes up again. Good luck to them on this approach. I would have taken a different approach but then again I am not Seibold nor Mestrov.

Thank the Lord ...
 

Andrew..

Bencher
Tipping Member
Well looks like Seibold and Mestrov have declared their hand here by extending the contracts for most of the players involved. I assume this means they have opted to go for my Option 1 ie. Do Nothing and cross the 2023 bridge if(??) when (!!) it comes up again. Good luck to them on this approach. I would have taken a different approach but then again I am not Seibold nor Mestrov.
According to what I've been told the club is committed to an inclusion round but I have no idea as to how it will be presented.
 
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Andrew..

Bencher
Tipping Member
Maybe it will be a true and honest everyone in league inclusion round.
Not a gay pride one or gay inclusion only dressed up as one.
All that's been communicated to me is they are committed to inclusion and they won't be backing down.
 
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D

Deleted member 26876

Guest
At least, there will be discussion about new jerseys with a players' group consisting of Parker, Schuster & Saab.

Yuck. Having Saab and Schuster shape an 'inclusive' jersey. That's ****ing hilarious.

Better off not having it at all if the club is going to be so weak. Honestly, what is the inclusive jersey they accept going to be? Probably just a bunch of country flags slapped together :tmi:
 
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Reactions: Ned

silvereagle

Reserve Grader
Yuck. Having Saab and Schuster shape an 'inclusive' jersey. That's ****ing hilarious.

Better off not having it at all if the club is going to be so weak. Honestly, what is the inclusive jersey they accept going to be? Probably just a bunch of country flags slapped together :tmi:
Does it really matter? As long as they all play that weekend, then I am all in favour of an "inclusiveness" jersey. Up until this whole fiasco I actually did (naively) think that "inclusiveness" related to everything....political, religious, cultural, lifestyle etc. We should be "inclusive" of all different views and opinions. Which I supported. Then all of a sudden it became just a gay thing. When did it change???
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
Does it really matter? As long as they all play that weekend, then I am all in favour of an "inclusiveness" jersey. Up until this whole fiasco I actually did (naively) think that "inclusiveness" related to everything....political, religious, cultural, lifestyle etc. We should be "inclusive" of all different views and opinions. Which I supported. Then all of a sudden it became just a gay thing. When did it change???
Here is the thing (and i know where this will go for me on here with many posters)

I am not tolerant of bigoted views. Those views have an adverse impact on people who do not have a choice


LGBTQ youth are not inherently prone to suicide risk because of their sexual orientation or gender identity but rather placed at higher risk because of how they are mistreated and stigmatized in society.

LGBTQ youth are more than four times as likely to attempt suicide than their peers (Johns et al., 2019; Johns et al., 2020).


Not enough proof?


Compared to the general population, LGBTIQ+ people are more likely to attempt suicide, specifically:  LGBTQA+ young people aged 16 to 17 were almost three times more likely to have attempted suicide in the past 12 months  LGBTQA+ young people aged 16 to 17 were almost five times more likely to have attempted suicide in their lifetime 3 Note: the majority of research targeting adult LGBTIQ+ populations in Australia has not included questions on whether participants have attempted suicide. 3 LGBTIQA+ Health Australia  LGBTI young people aged 16 to 27 are five times more likely  Transgender people aged 14-25 are fifteen times more likely  People with an intersex variation aged 16 and over are nearly six times more likely


So this is my issue.

Point out where my view of inclusiveness and a lack of tolerance for religious intolerance has the same impact as the above. I am keen to read how a Jewish left-leaning "woke" person like me causes the same impact on youth suicide over something they can not control.

Now I am sure that people will argue that faith is not a choice. I am not across the various Christian faiths however it does seem somewhat subjective (much like Judaism) where there seems to be the ability to move with the times somewhat.

How do you think honestly any young Manly fan struggling with their sexuality was impacted by this?

I do not condone death threats or any use of violence against the players however since this affair I have struggled with my support of players with views so different from mine that can have such a negative impact on people who do not have any choice in the matter.

Sure there is an argument that the players should not have been placed in the position where their private views were made public however that is a governance issue. Their views are now public


As a father of two children, it scares me that in 2022 there is still so much intolerance in the world over something that is not a choice.
 

manly al

First Grader
Maybe to put most of the focus on the tolerance aspect which would also relate to some general inclusiveness . Quite a spectrum out there naturally when it comes to general society inclusiveness issues so an exercise or a promotion where individuals or groups do not necessary have to agree with any particular type of inclusiveness but certainly accepting tolerance . For instance , sure that there would be some entertainment and other public establishments that our 7 or 10 would occasionally frequent that would have a fairly open policy in admitting persons of many beliefs and personal preferences but doubt that this would be a deterrent for them attending or reasons to consider a boycott . Bit more attention with a high profile sporting event but concept the same . Actually the 7 or 10 just seem to now be getting on with things normally , surely again there can be ways and means found to allow this to continue including right through a normal N R L season .
 
D

Deleted member 26876

Guest
Here is the thing (and i know where this will go for me on here with many posters)

I am not tolerant of bigoted views. Those views have an adverse impact on people who do not have a choice


LGBTQ youth are not inherently prone to suicide risk because of their sexual orientation or gender identity but rather placed at higher risk because of how they are mistreated and stigmatized in society.

LGBTQ youth are more than four times as likely to attempt suicide than their peers (Johns et al., 2019; Johns et al., 2020).


Not enough proof?


Compared to the general population, LGBTIQ+ people are more likely to attempt suicide, specifically:  LGBTQA+ young people aged 16 to 17 were almost three times more likely to have attempted suicide in the past 12 months  LGBTQA+ young people aged 16 to 17 were almost five times more likely to have attempted suicide in their lifetime 3 Note: the majority of research targeting adult LGBTIQ+ populations in Australia has not included questions on whether participants have attempted suicide. 3 LGBTIQA+ Health Australia  LGBTI young people aged 16 to 27 are five times more likely  Transgender people aged 14-25 are fifteen times more likely  People with an intersex variation aged 16 and over are nearly six times more likely

So this is my issue.

Point out where my view of inclusiveness and a lack of tolerance for religious intolerance has the same impact as the above. I am keen to read how a Jewish left-leaning "woke" person like me causes the same impact on youth suicide over something they can not control.

Now I am sure that people will argue that faith is not a choice. I am not across the various Christian faiths however it does seem somewhat subjective (much like Judaism) where there seems to be the ability to move with the times somewhat.

How do you think honestly any young Manly fan struggling with their sexuality was impacted by this?

I do not condone death threats or any use of violence against the players however since this affair I have struggled with my support of players with views so different from mine that can have such a negative impact on people who do not have any choice in the matter.

Sure there is an argument that the players should not have been placed in the position where their private views were made public however that is a governance issue. Their views are now public


As a father of two children, it scares me that in 2022 there is still so much intolerance in the world over something that is not a choice.
When people cut out all the crap, they'll arrive at the same concensus as you here. It's not a 'woke' issue or 'religious intolerance', it's just basic humanism.
 

40 nil

It's only a game ...
I am not tolerant of bigoted views.

According to these dictionary definitions, these two words are very similar in meaning.

Intolerant: not able to accept behaviour or opinions that are different from your own

Bigot: a person with very strong, unreasonable beliefs or opinions and who will not listen to or accept a different opinion.

My understanding is that when we don't agree with another's view, we can at least try to understand how/why that individual has come to that view. Fundamentalism involves very little critical thinking, and therein lies the problem. People blindly believe what a book, teacher or leader says & this belief intensifies when it is shared by a group.

It's likely that none of these young men are homophobic. It's also possible if someone skilfully engaged them in rational discussion about LBQTQ issues, their views might broaden over time. My experience in discussion with individuals who have different views to mine is to first find a common ground of agreement rather than focusing on differences.

I am not a fan of the Christian religion, but I appreciate some of the teachings attributed to Jesus, e.g. "Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do". If individuals are acting out of ignorance, we should try to give them some slack. This is a skilful means which also helps our own peace of mind.
 
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lsz

First Grader
Staff member
According to these dictionary definitions, these two words are very similar in meaning.

Intolerant: not able to accept behaviour or opinions that are different from your own

Bigot: a person with very strong, unreasonable beliefs or opinions and who will not listen to or accept a different opinion.

My understanding is that when we don't agree with another's view, we can at least try to understand how/why that individual has come to that view. Fundamentalism involves very little critical thinking, and therein lies the problem. People blindly believe what a book, teacher or leader says & this belief intensifies when it is shared by a group.

It's likely that none of these young men are homophobic. It's also possible if someone skilfully engaged them in rational discussion about LBQTX issues, their views might broaden over time. My experience in discussion with individuals who have different views to mine is to first find a common ground of agreement rather than focusing on differences.

I am not a fan of the Christian religion, but I appreciate some of the teachings attributed to Jesus, e.g. "Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do". If individuals are acting out of ignorance, we should try to give them some slack. This is a skilful means which also helps our own peace of mind.
You would have had me 20 years ago but it is the 2022. Their views are clearly homophobic

I am over being nice about this. Their views have a negative impact on the lives of the people - I am not sure why we need to dance around this.

I do not accept their behavior
 
Here is the thing (and i know where this will go for me on here with many posters)

I am not tolerant of bigoted views. Those views have an adverse impact on people who do not have a choice


LGBTQ youth are not inherently prone to suicide risk because of their sexual orientation or gender identity but rather placed at higher risk because of how they are mistreated and stigmatized in society.

LGBTQ youth are more than four times as likely to attempt suicide than their peers (Johns et al., 2019; Johns et al., 2020).


Not enough proof?


Compared to the general population, LGBTIQ+ people are more likely to attempt suicide, specifically:  LGBTQA+ young people aged 16 to 17 were almost three times more likely to have attempted suicide in the past 12 months  LGBTQA+ young people aged 16 to 17 were almost five times more likely to have attempted suicide in their lifetime 3 Note: the majority of research targeting adult LGBTIQ+ populations in Australia has not included questions on whether participants have attempted suicide. 3 LGBTIQA+ Health Australia  LGBTI young people aged 16 to 27 are five times more likely  Transgender people aged 14-25 are fifteen times more likely  People with an intersex variation aged 16 and over are nearly six times more likely

So this is my issue.

Point out where my view of inclusiveness and a lack of tolerance for religious intolerance has the same impact as the above. I am keen to read how a Jewish left-leaning "woke" person like me causes the same impact on youth suicide over something they can not control.

Now I am sure that people will argue that faith is not a choice. I am not across the various Christian faiths however it does seem somewhat subjective (much like Judaism) where there seems to be the ability to move with the times somewhat.

How do you think honestly any young Manly fan struggling with their sexuality was impacted by this?

I do not condone death threats or any use of violence against the players however since this affair I have struggled with my support of players with views so different from mine that can have such a negative impact on people who do not have any choice in the matter.

Sure there is an argument that the players should not have been placed in the position where their private views were made public however that is a governance issue. Their views are now public


As a father of two children, it scares me that in 2022 there is still so much intolerance in the world over something that is not a choice.
Why do you keep diverting and over complicating the subject matter, the promotion is "Preaching" and telling people "how they should think, act, accept", i am against anyone telling me what is right or wrong even Bible Preachers on the street.

My views will be exactly the same if a Christian Jersey or any other religious Jersey was promoted i would be against that equally and with the same passion.

This is not about "Politics" like how some people here are preferring to interpret the issue and blend it ever so conveniently with the "sport and politics don't mix argument", it's about a club or organization "telling people how it should be" when all people want to do is come together and enjoy sport for all of its inherent inclusiveness without having ideals promoted and shoved down our throats, sport is entertainment and escapism from our daily pressures, stresses and thoughts.

On top of that the stats in those articles lack depth and can be argued in many respects but it makes no difference to the "preaching" element and pushing ones ideals on a fan base.

Yes general acceptance will lower suicide rates in all types, treating people with respect and acceptance in everyday situations goes without saying, that doesn't mean i have to change my opinions, beliefs and lifestyle in order to accept people, i accept a variety of types beyond sexuality that i show respect towards in my interactions.(no special exceptions or added effort is required to to be made for the LGTBQ+ group)
 
Team P W L PD Pts
16 13 3 125 32
17 11 6 125 28
16 11 5 116 28
17 11 6 225 26
16 9 7 65 24
16 9 7 48 24
17 9 8 -56 24
17 9 7 67 23
17 9 8 1 22
17 8 9 -91 22
17 8 9 -81 20
18 7 10 -34 19
17 7 10 9 18
16 6 10 -59 18
16 6 10 -104 18
17 4 13 -153 14
17 4 13 -203 12
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