The No-Look News (Schuster Chronicles)

[Waz13]

The issue about Shu's defense hits me with a degree of ambivalence. At his best, he shouldn't be expected to be one of the best defenders. His role in the team is creating opportunities in attack. We cant expect players to be all things like robots.

I recall as examples Johnny Gibbs. Very average defender. In fact he was often kept out of the way, and sensibly because it would sap his energy for what he did best. I recall time and again how you wouldn't see much of him for much of the game and then suddenly, explosively, he would make several breaks and tries were scored, when it seemed like the team would struggle. The key. Keep him fresh for those magic moments, especially when the opposition tires. One of the main reasons Manly won the premiership in1978 even though he missed the Grand final.

Same with Phil Blake in 1983. Not a great defender, but he scored 27 tries that year often out of nothing. Lost the grand final against a very good Eels side, but he was one of the reasons they got there I think this was one area Fulton as coach, erred because I heard he was not happy with his defense and he ended up leaving the club. Then almost helped Souths to a premiership.

We cant expect all things from these players. Some have natural skills and you want them at their best to use those skills. Often too much defense blunts those skills. Not suggesting that's the problem right now. He needs game time and confidence building. However if he gets back to his best, I hope he isn't too loaded with defense responsibilities. Game breaking is what he is likely to be there for That X factor. Its there, but it will need full fitness to do it, and that doesn't mean wearing him out tackling.

But this is the issue for me, if he’s going to be picked in the second row, then f&&@ yeah his defence needs to be on point. If he were a 6 or 7 then less so. We already have one damaging explosive backrower in Guac, but he also measures up defensivly and folds blokes. IMO there is no room in this team for a showy second rower who ain’t keen to mix it when the going gets tough.

I’ve been a Schu fan but I struggle to see how or where he fits in at grade level. Would like to see him somewhere, just not sure where he fits when we are full strength.

 

[LeonardCohen]

The issue about Shu's defense hits me with a degree of ambivalence. At his best, he shouldn't be expected to be one of the best defenders. His role in the team is creating opportunities in attack. We cant expect players to be all things like robots.

I recall as examples Johnny Gibbs. Very average defender. In fact he was often kept out of the way, and sensibly because it would sap his energy for what he did best. I recall time and again how you wouldn't see much of him for much of the game and then suddenly, explosively, he would make several breaks and tries were scored, when it seemed like the team would struggle. The key. Keep him fresh for those magic moments, especially when the opposition tires. One of the main reasons Manly won the premiership in1978 even though he missed the Grand final.

Same with Phil Blake in 1983. Not a great defender, but he scored 27 tries that year often out of nothing. Lost the grand final against a very good Eels side, but he was one of the reasons they got there I think this was one area Fulton as coach, erred because I heard he was not happy with his defense and he ended up leaving the club. Then almost helped Souths to a premiership.

We cant expect all things from these players. Some have natural skills and you want them at their best to use those skills. Often too much defense blunts those skills. Not suggesting that's the problem right now. He needs game time and confidence building. However if he gets back to his best, I hope he isn't too loaded with defense responsibilities. Game breaking is what he is likely to be there for That X factor. Its there, but it will need full fitness to do it, and that doesn't mean wearing him out tackling.

I don’t want to be disrespectful because you’re entitled to your opinion but geez it seems like you’ll do absolutely anything to find an excuse for Schuster. Now we are looking back into ancient history, to a time when the game was completely different, to compare players who were elite because they could generate points, but weren’t great defenders. For a start, Gibbs and Blake played in the backs (that might have a little something to do with their tackle counts and/ability to hide?!). They weren’t professionals earning hundred of thousands of dollars and there was no hi-tech ‘video analysis’ to exploit opposition weaknesses. Players trained two nights a week and had 10 schooners at the local after a few laps of the oval.

Schuster is a professional athlete on huge dollars. He needs to be a good defender in a first grade rugby league team or he will be found out and he will cost us.

I think the coaching staff might know this, which is why he is languishing in NSW Cup…I could be wrong.

 

[Bearfax]

I don’t want to be disrespectful because you’re entitled to your opinion but geez it seems like you’ll do absolutely anything to find an excuse for Schuster. Now we are looking back into ancient history, to a time a when the game was completely different, to compare players who were elite because they could generate points, but weren’t great defenders. For a start, Gibbs and Blake played in the backs (that might have a little something to do with their tackle counts?!). They weren’t professionals earning hundred of thousands of dollars and there was no hi-tech ‘video analysis’ to exploit opposition weaknesses. Players trained two nights a week and had 10 schooners at the local after a few laps of the oval.

Schuster is a professional athlete on huge dollars. He needs to be a good defender in a first grade rugby league team or he will be found out and he will cost us.

I think the coaches staff might know this, which is why he is languishing in NSW Cup…I could be wrong.

No Leonard, I'm making a quite logical point about team work and that doesn't change. Do you expect a winger to do 30 tackles a game. Do you expect a prop to run a hundred metres in under 11 seconds. Do you expect a half back to make punishing runs up the centre like a forward. No. They have specific skills and tasks. And if you diminish those skills by expecting them to take on other tasks they are not physically suited for, you result in lesser outcomes. I'm a large man who lifts reasonably heavy weights. I have a mate at the gym who cant because he's slighter in frame. But he can dance around hitting a punching bag like a humming bird. I cant. No one expects either of us to do what we're not built for. I've worked in teams much of my life. Certain people have certain skills, others have other skills. To utilize those skills effectively in a team system, you don't burden them with excessive duties others more suited can do. Vive la difference.

 

[LeonardCohen]

No Leonard, I'm making a quite logical point about team work and that doesn't change. Do you expect a winger to do 30 tackles a game. Do you expect a prop to run a hundred metres in under 11 seconds. Do you expect a half back to make punishing runs up the centre like a forward. No. They have specific skills and tasks. And if you diminish those skills by expecting them to take on other tasks they are not physically suited for, you result in lesser outcomes. I'm a large man who lifts reasonably heavy weights. I have a mate at the gym who cant because he's slighter in frame. But he can dance around hitting a punching bag like a humming bird. I cant. No one expects either of us to do what we're not built for. I've worked in teams much of my life. Certain people have certain skills, others have other skills. To utilize those skills effectively in a team system, you don't burden them with excessive duties others more suited can do. Vive la difference.

So using this logic, a guy that weighs over 100kg and plays in the forwards, should not be expected to make too many tackles so he is fresh to throw a no look pass on occasions?

He’s not quick, he is not elusive, he is big and he is playing in the forwards. Further, he doesn’t get to choose how many tackles he makes. If the opposition run traffic at him, he can’t step out of the way in the name of staying fresh for our attacking opportunities.

The whole argument is illogical to me.

 

[mave]

No Leonard, I'm making a quite logical point about team work and that doesn't change. Do you expect a winger to do 30 tackles a game. Do you expect a prop to run a hundred metres in under 11 seconds. Do you expect a half back to make punishing runs up the centre like a forward. No. They have specific skills and tasks. And if you diminish those skills by expecting them to take on other tasks they are not physically suited for, you result in lesser outcomes. I'm a large man who lifts reasonably heavy weights. I have a mate at the gym who cant because he's slighter in frame. But he can dance around hitting a punching bag like a humming bird. I cant. No one expects either of us to do what we're not built for. I've worked in teams much of my life. Certain people have certain skills, others have other skills. To utilize those skills effectively in a team system, you don't burden them with excessive duties others more suited can do. Vive la difference.

If the opposition runs 30 plays at our winger, then yeah, I expect him to make 30 tackles.

If Schuster is going to make a go of playing lock in first grade, he's gonna half to make his fair share of tackles too, whether that blunts his attack or not.

 

[manly al]

Think the biggest issue with Shu right now or to be considered for a i st grade call up again is how he may fit in or complement Manly "s current style of play .
In attack in particular and practiced by most sides , that more expansive and high energy ball movement and sweep plays and some real mobility and fitness levels required .
Seems to be some or slightly different takes on Shu "s current fitness and game involvement levels but the mobility and fitness factor looks like not up to an expected level to again warrant being upgraded
The comparative instances , Brown going well as an intimidating middle and capable link when required
Waddell and Burbo generally going well on an edge and quite lively , Bully , maybe not the greatest defence at times but excellent leg drive and still probably one of the quickest forwards going around in the comp . Even Parker who maybe is going O K on an edge at Blacktown
Just mentioning Bully in that he can play either middle or edge if needed .
N R L seasons can be pretty demanding and the depth factor a critical component and hopefully Shu can get to the stage of being i st grade ready but not any time soon it would seem .
Sure that he will get his opportunity if his form and fitness can get back up there but then how to engage his playing style . Maybe as a naturally talented footy player at his best and fully fit , this should be manageable for him

 

[The '47ers]

If he is struggling with mental health maybe he could be medically retired

 

[frank stokes]

If he is struggling with mental health maybe he could be medically retired

If he played for rorters or drizzle yes…

as a manly player he would need to actually leave a match as a paraplegic before the NRL would consider medical retirement…

 

[rmd]

There’s so many polarizing opinions regarding Shu, however, I reckon he could be right up there with Cliffy with his deception and try assist ability.

He just needs confidence and time, as he is still only young and obviously has some personal issues he is dealing with.

His passing game is so ‘silky’ and I want you to imagine this as would just confuse defences.

‘Croker to Brooks, Brooks to Schuster, Sxhuster to Turbo on the outside, Turbo to Sxhuster on the inside and then Schuster to Brooks on the outside or Turbo or winger. All different lines but sleight of hand and really quick.

It’s all about creating the gap, and as much a Schu has been derided, he has that ability and very few do.

Playing in NSW Cup has probably been an eye opener for him in terms of ego, however, his talent is immense and if he is with the best in the game, it’s where her will excel.

I would not be surprised if Seibs selects him this week.

Just my thoughts.

 

[silvereagle]

There’s so many polarizing opinions regarding Shu, however, I reckon he could be right up there with Cliffy with his deception and try assist ability.

He just needs confidence and time, as he is still only young and obviously has some personal issues he is dealing with.

His passing game is so ‘silky’ and I want you to imagine this as would just confuse defences.

Also just a reminder that the great Cliffy Lyons was 26 years of age when he came to Manly and then took 12 months before he finally played 5/8. So he was actually 27 before he played 5/8. Prior to that he played almost exclusively lock. The Shu is only 22 years of age!!!!

 

[The '47ers]

Also just a reminder that the great Cliffy Lyons was 26 years of age when he came to Manly and then took 12 months before he finally played 5/8. So he was actually 27 before he played 5/8. Prior to that he played almost exclusively lock. The Shu is only 22 years of age!!!!

Schuster wouldn't have made any teams roster in the late 80s/90s.

 

[mickqld]

So Schu been back for 3 games now and can't get back into firsts ahead of Waddell. Ummm can someone explain WTF !!! is going on here. This is rediculous.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Also just a reminder that the great Cliffy Lyons was 26 years of age when he came to Manly and then took 12 months before he finally played 5/8. So he was actually 27 before he played 5/8. Prior to that he played almost exclusively lock. The Shu is only 22 years of age!!!!

And Cliffy was unfit and earning 800k in those years prior too…wait…no he wasn’t.

 

[Jay Eagle]

So Schu been back for 3 games now and can't get back into firsts ahead of Waddell. Ummm can someone explain WTF !!! is going on here. This is rediculous.

And nor should he.. Shu isn't good enough to be in our top 18 atm and there is nobody in that top 18 that should be dropped.
Players should not be picked on what they are paid..they should only be picked on form and what they bring to the team.. regardless of a pay packet or contract.
What would you expect

Seriously...

So you tap a guy on the shoulder because his on $300k a year and say "ok mate back to reggies for you we have a $600k player coming back".. LMFAO

This should never happen and if it does we may as well be a club happy to run last.
And that's not Manly..

I'm happy to see Seibs making any and all players earn their spot..

 

[Dion Johnson]

Schuster is down on fitness and possibly attitude, though he has some class about him, he will make the 17 stronger that’s for sure.

There have been some players over the years that have been picked from obscurity, Arthur Beetson and Bob Linder from reserve grade to playing origin and having great games.

Olsen Filipaina picked from reserve grade to playing international for New Zealand against the Aussies and having a blinder.

Not too discredit the fitness that is required to play first grade but Schuster has skills that a large majority of the players at the club just don’t have.

 

[eaglebuzz]

So Schu been back for 3 games now and can't get back into firsts ahead of Waddell. Ummm can someone explain WTF !!! is going on here. This is rediculous.

Because Waddell has actually been quite good lately and Schuster is jogging around with his head down in his matches?

 

[mickqld]

And nor should he.. Shu isn't good enough to be in our top 18 atm and there is nobody in that top 18 that should be dropped.
Players should not be picked on what they are paid..they should only be picked on form and what they bring to the team.. regardless of a pay packet or contract.
What would you expect

Seriously...

So you tap a guy on the shoulder because his on $300k a year and say "ok mate back to reggies for you we have a $600k player coming back".. LMFAO

This should never happen and if it does we may as well be a club happy to run last.
And that's not Manly..

I'm happy to see Seibs making any and all players earn their spot..

I'm not disputing that he doesn't deserve to be in 1st grade because he clearly is unfit and unmotivated , but someone should be accountable and explain why a $600K or $800K or whatever it is player isn't performing. Chewing up a vast amount of salary cap and providing zero for it.

 

[manlyfan76]

Isn't there a story about waiting for the shoe to drop?

Seems we are all reading it.

 

[silvereagle]

And Cliffy was unfit and earning 800k in those years prior too…wait…no he wasn’t.

No dispute on that. The fact is we did offer the Shu a significant contract based on significant potential. So far we have not seen that potential. So we are now down to persevere or punt. I would be persevering longer with the guy while most on here probably would not. Simple difference of opinion .......and judgement. Time will tell.

 

[silver]

Isn't there a story about waiting for the shoe to drop?

Seems we are all reading it.

@manlyfan76 Can you elaborate anymore? First, I've heard on this one.