The Kieran Forum

[urulion]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

it's contract law, it's not really a criminal offense, it's civil mainly in this regard. It will result in either a fine or an injunction, and it is unlikely the cost (although they can be awarded back to you)

Even if he was induced to leave and brought other people away, it's very unlikely much will be done. There was a recent case, I think last year, where director A of company A, left and started company B. He took several managers and directors with him.

Company A tried to sue Company B and Director A.

The court found that essentially the contract in regards to this section was unenforceable and unjust. As such there is now precedent and we likely won't win.

I will see if I can find the news articles on the specific case I mention above

Hi Daniel, you are correct, and there has been a similar case as you have mentioned, but I do believe that the underlying circumstances are just a little different.

It must be taken into account that by Hasler's poaching, and already installing get out clauses, this has brought loss to the club, but more importantly it can be seen to work as a detriment to Manly. Considering that other players are waiting to see what Foz does before they decide their futures. There is a possibility that other players walk after Foz has officially gone to dogs.

Just like the case you have mentioned, there are also other cases of people purchasing assets, and the contract terms are obscure, so the courts have tests to apply (officious bystander test)that deal with this situation. I personally feel that Manly has been misrepresented by Dez (with all these clauses which he knew he was anticipating leaving the club in the future). It goes without saying that Dez had a contract at Manly to help the club, not to write clauses to help them get out. The fact is, if, other players walk as well, this may very well prove that the voidable clause taken by foran, has caused detriment to the club, as they expected a different outcome to the one Dez has taken by his misrepresentation.

This is not about Dez or Foz this is about our club. Although as you have mentioned, and rightly so, I personally do not encourage legal action, or to impose an injunction, but if we end up losing the stewart brothers, lyon, matai, ballin, t-rex, because one player (foz) has started the trend, I also feel that Dez should be held accountable. At the end of the day these clauses implemented in players contracts by Dez, quite confidently tells me that he was up to no good.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

. . . Manly should let him in his capacity, to exercise the clause and leave as early as possible . . .

You are kiddin'? (Or are you really lion?)
Sorry, can't help being suspicious of new posters who pop up saying we should release one of stars asap. Now who would that benefit most? Very hard to say… not.

 

[Jatz Crackers]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

Your going too bee busy Jatz if ewe have decided too take it up on you're self too correct peoples' spelling, Most posters hear get there spelling, grammar and punctuation rite on this sight most of the thyme - how ever sum get it wrong quiet a bit. Ewe also need two look out four posters using the wrong spelling of a word wear the word they want two use is spelled differently; don't four get too fix that two:

Oh Kay. Thang que. Gooda advise.

Had no alternative with the mensies thing though. Sacrilegious.

 

[MadMarcus]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/Restraint-on-staff-poaching-excessive/2005/04/07/1112815670139.html

Situation is not that dissimilar to the claims being made.

As I say there are very limited possibilities that we would win, and if we did, the cost and reward would not be worth it.

A complete waste of time money and bad press

It may be a slightly similar situation but it is a completely different legal basis for the claim Dan. The main issues here is the way Hasler/Greenberg/Bulldogs set about getting Hasler out of his contract for 2012 and how Hasler was involved in enticing staff to join the Bulldogs when he still had a year to run on his contract with Manly.

None of us have seen the contract and nobody know what the evidence is (except Rambofan who probably drafted the contract and was presumably copied in on all the emails), so I don't think any of us are in a position to make a judgment on the legal merits of the claim.

 

[Jatz Crackers]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

But to what end. It just seems a waste of time and money and is nothing but horrible PR.

Being devils advocate, why do you suggest bad PR ?

It dont see prosecuting a wrong should necessarily bring about bad public relations.

 

[urulion]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

. . . Manly should let him in his capacity, to exercise the clause and leave as early as possible . . .

You are kiddin'? (Or are you really lion?)
Sorry, can't help being suspicious of new posters who pop up saying we should release one of stars asap. Now who would that benefit most? Very hard to say… not.

[/quote

No I'm not kidding.. and you can be as suspicious as you like. He is finding the decision hard to stay at Manly. Considering that we have offered the same $$$ as the dogs, why would the decision be so hard?
Does his team mates not mean anything?? If he is not happy to put on our jersey, and is not willing to be committed to our club (according to his manager it is a very hard decision for him) well what are you wanting to do? force him to play with us, even though he does not wish to do so?

In regards to who it will benefit most? The simple answer is us, the quicker we know what he is doing, the quicker we can try to keep our other players, especially t-rex, stewart, ballin etc. 1 player is not a premiership, but rather 17 players make a premiership.

I might be a new poster, but have more than likely been following the sea eagles longer than you have my friend.

Good luck, but I personally feel that Foz has already agreed to terms with the dogs. I personally wished he stayed, but I'm not going to become suicidal if he runs off.

 

[clontaago]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

The Des thing needs to be let go. The bottom line is our board could barely run a chook raffle and Hasler saw the writing on the wall. This our problem, we caused it, not the Dogs. They just took an opportunity. Des didnt break his contract, he was sacked. He signed on with the Dogs from 2013 onwards at which stage his contract with us was complete.

As for the Foran issue, for those of you that suggest keeping him at club by legal means. We then waste his share of the salary cap while what, he plays Reggies??

Stop and have a think about things.

 

[KaZa]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

We are not a club with great finances.. why waste time and money with legal costs.. we just got over that **** with the Brett Stewart saga. Why drag the club through the wars again. Especially against a club with unlimited funding.

I could not be arsed if he left or not anymore. If he goes so be it. We have Ricardi or Whare to the centres and Lyon to 5/8.

Put the money towards T Rex or the rest of them. If Bulldogs are willing to pay his contract out for this season.. i would do it and put the funds towards T-Rex.

Dont want players if they dont want to be here. Manly will go on without them..

 

[The Eagle]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

No,he needs to pay for his chances

 

[weev]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

If Hasler has done sometrhing illegal that is now going to bring hurt to Manly....F@rk him...we chase him as hard as we can and expose him and greenturd as the little grubs they are......If its all above board, move on.

If he has shat on the club, remaining players and supporters then he should have his life membership revoked and never be letting in the club agaian.Maybe we slap him with an AVO, that will keep him over the otherside of the bridge...lol

But to what end. It just seems a waste of time and money and is nothing but horrible PR.

To the end that the dogs must pay compo. I think 10 mill should do it.

 

[Jatz Crackers]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

To the end that the dogs must pay compo. I think 10 mill should do it.

A nice round $10m eh. Id like to see the financial statement of claim on that.

 

[Dan]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

But to what end. It just seems a waste of time and money and is nothing but horrible PR.

Being devils advocate, why do you suggest bad PR ?

It dont see prosecuting a wrong should necessarily bring about bad public relations.

I'd like to offer the case of Larrikan music vs Men at Work.

The judgement was that Men at Work were in the wrong, however you will be hard pressed to find many people that see Larrikan music in a good light for their action.

It just seems petty and most will see it as so

 

[Dan]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

If Hasler has done sometrhing illegal that is now going to bring hurt to Manly....F@rk him...we chase him as hard as we can and expose him and greenturd as the little grubs they are......If its all above board, move on.

If he has shat on the club, remaining players and supporters then he should have his life membership revoked and never be letting in the club agaian.Maybe we slap him with an AVO, that will keep him over the otherside of the bridge...lol

But to what end. It just seems a waste of time and money and is nothing but horrible PR.

To the end that the dogs must pay compo. I think 10 mill should do it.

Ha yeah right 10m that will happen. We are talking at maybe $200,000 in damages plus legal fees. We would be lucky if there was $1m in it. You're kidding of you think there is that much in it

 

[Jatz Crackers]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

I'd like to offer the case of Larrikan music vs Men at Work.

Austlii?

Without reading the judgement that sounds to me like (insert long bow pic here)

 

[Dan]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

I'd like to offer the case of Larrikan music vs Men at Work.

Austlii?

Without reading the judgement that sounds to me like (insert long bow pic here)

How is it a long bow.

Someone was legally wronged, they took action and won but have had nothing but bad PR especially via social media.

Subject matter is different in that it relates to copyright but the scenario is the same as you posed it

 

[Jatz Crackers]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

Your going to make me read it arnt you. Bastard !

 

[clontaago]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

I'm with Dan, the cases may be vastly different but the resulting PR would be almost identical.

 

[Andrew..]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

Any legal action will be long and procrastinated. Ask yourselves these three simple questions

1. What do we hope to achieve by legal action
2. Can the club really afford it
3. What damage will it do in terms of short and long term sponsorship $$$$

At the end of the day outcome and benefits need to be weighed up to decide what the right option to proceed is.

I can't imagine appropriate legal action being detrimental to our sponsorship.
Hell, the dogs systematic rorting of the salary cap in 2002 doesn't seem to have affected their bottom line to much, and history has shown they were proven to have acted outside the spirit of the game.

 

[weev]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

If Hasler has done sometrhing illegal that is now going to bring hurt to Manly....F@rk him...we chase him as hard as we can and expose him and greenturd as the little grubs they are......If its all above board, move on.

If he has shat on the club, remaining players and supporters then he should have his life membership revoked and never be letting in the club agaian.Maybe we slap him with an AVO, that will keep him over the otherside of the bridge...lol

But to what end. It just seems a waste of time and money and is nothing but horrible PR.

To the end that the dogs must pay compo. I think 10 mill should do it.

Ha yeah right 10m that will happen. We are talking at maybe $200,000 in damages plus legal fees. We would be lucky if there was $1m in it. You're kidding of you think there is that much in it

Sure maybe not 10 mill but still something. Lost revenue, sponsorship etc. Depends on how it plays out. If we win the shield not a cent, but if 8 players leave, sponsors pull and club folds then hell yeah. It's all hypothetical but I do think they - turd and des - should wiggle on the line for a bit.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

RE: Foran - Will he ? Won't he ?

. . . Manly should let him in his capacity, to exercise the clause and leave as early as possible . . .

You are kiddin'? (Or are you really lion?)
Sorry, can't help being suspicious of new posters who pop up saying we should release one of stars asap. Now who would that benefit most? Very hard to say… not.

[/quote

No I'm not kidding.. and you can be as suspicious as you like. He is finding the decision hard to stay at Manly. Considering that we have offered the same $$$ as the dogs, why would the decision be so hard?
Does his team mates not mean anything?? If he is not happy to put on our jersey, and is not willing to be committed to our club (according to his manager it is a very hard decision for him) well what are you wanting to do? force him to play with us, even though he does not wish to do so?

In regards to who it will benefit most? The simple answer is us, the quicker we know what he is doing, the quicker we can try to keep our other players, especially t-rex, stewart, ballin etc. 1 player is not a premiership, but rather 17 players make a premiership.

I might be a new poster, but have more than likely been following the sea eagles longer than you have my friend.

Good luck, but I personally feel that Foz has already agreed to terms with the dogs. I personally wished he stayed, but I'm not going to become suicidal if he runs off.

As it happens, you haven't been following the Sea Eagles for longer than I have. Which is immaterial, even if you started following last week you are equally entitled to your 2 cents worth.

Apologies again for being suspicious, we do get a certain number of bulldog trolls in these parts nowadays.

It sounded like you were suggesting we should pack Foran off to the Dogs now –as in, this season. If that is not what you meant then my paranoia may have been for nought.

And if he does leave, like you I won't be suicidal. (I'm the one who started the recent thread 'Why we don't need kieran foran'..