The Folau Saga ... or Castle's Catastrophy

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Woodsie,

I disagree with you. A lot was made about Izzy’s right to religious freedom, freedom of speech and his quoting from the bible “out of love” and his right to use his public profile to sermonise.

What did he really have to lose with going on with it? He’ll never play for RA again as he’s poison to sponsors, supporters and businesses seeking to be seen as incusive. He had a $2 million dollar fund backing him from the Christian lobby, and I’d hazard a guess that there’d be more available if needed. So, he wasn’t going to be out of pocket with his legal fees; so why settle?

He didn’t establish that he had the right to make statements, in his own time, that caused all this drama and angst, and that hurt his employers interests, real or perceived.

To me, yes he’s settled the dispute with his former employers and received an amount of money, both apologies, IMHO, were pretty weak, but he hasn’t stuck by his guns that he had the right to make those statements.

So yes, it was all about the money and understandably so as he’s got bills to pay like most of us, not his right to religious freedom or speech, whether he intentionally, or unintentionally, injured the feelings those offended by his quotes or the commercial interests of his employer.

I don’t agree with his statements but he had the right to make them as long as they complied with Australian law; which could be tested soon as a Gay rights advocate was reportedly going to try to have him prosecuted over those statements. I believe that if his true beliefs are as stated, then he should have defended through the Courts his right to make them and express his beliefs to the World.
 
I was hoping that Izzy was going to take it all the way - I for one was extremely interested in hearing about how his previously infallible, all knowing, omnipotent, one and only true Mormon God was supplanted by his infallible, all knowing, omnipotent, one and only true Assemblies of God God. Would have been a fascinating tale.
 
I disagree with you. A lot was made about Izzy’s right to religious freedom, freedom of speech and his quoting from the bible “out of love” and his right to use his public profile to sermonise.

Agree ... everybody with an opinion or axe to grind either lamblasted or cannonised him for all those points of freedom of expression etc etc ..... but the fact remains that the case in front of the court was for wrongful dismissal and damages .... the court was never going to rule on the bible or any greater issues ........ it was only ever going to rule on Folau's contract ... and did he breech it .....never on if so ... why he breeched it .....

... and the reverse applies ... if RA was so confident about their contractual strength ... why did they offer him a settlement ??
 
Ra copped out as it generally does. Ray Ray is a walking disaster in top line management. Izzy is still a bigoted self righteous twat. Green turd is still a **
The world is back to normal. everyone relax.

On another note my ex wife was an trolley dolly many years ago and a lot of our friends were gay air stewards. i had a pretty good gadar and may the lord strike me down but geez i was surprised IF doesn't bat for the alternate side.

Yeah, he does raise a ping or two on my gaydar as well. But when your father is a fundamentalist religious zealot who runs his own cult...flinging open the closet isn’t so much of an option, is it?
 
Agree ... everybody with an opinion or axe to grind either lamblasted or cannonised him for all those points of freedom of expression etc etc ..... but the fact remains that the case in front of the court was for wrongful dismissal and damages .... the court was never going to rule on the bible or any greater issues ........ it was only ever going to rule on Folau's contract ... and did he breech it .....never on if so ... why he breeched it .....

... and the reverse applies ... if RA was so confident about their contractual strength ... why did they offer him a settlement ??
RA's desire for a settlement makes much more sense. Win, lose or draw this whole thing would likely have carried on for years. Costing more than a simple settlement and causing further damage to what is left of rugby's brand. It's done now and hopefully everyone moves on.
 
I was hoping that Izzy was going to take it all the way - I for one was extremely interested in hearing about how his previously infallible, all knowing, omnipotent, one and only true Mormon God was supplanted by his infallible, all knowing, omnipotent, one and only true Assemblies of God God. Would have been a fascinating tale.

I was reading the other day ..on a History buff facebook page .... a story about the American Civil war ... and in particular the 2 main passages from the Bible that the Godly and Rightous used to justify black slavery .... the mark of Ham ..... never has a more ridiculous piece of convoluted nonsense ever been penned by man .....

I wondered at the time what many of these Islander christians make of those passages .... and whether it would highlight to them that maybe ... just maybe .... not everything in the bible is fair dinkum .... I guess you just pick those passages you agree with and decide that God was having an off day when he wrote the others ...... or that they have simply been misunderstood ...
 
RA's desire for a settlement makes much more sense. Win, lose or draw this whole thing would likely have carried on for years. Costing more than a simple settlement and causing further damage to what is left of rugby's brand. It's done now and hopefully everyone moves on.

Fully agree Muzz .... my point was simply you can't have a go at Folau for not going all the way on principle without applying the same judgement to the RA ...
 
Actually Woodsie,

I agree with you about the Court ruling on the issue of religion and people‘s right to quote from their preferred book of choice but it would have ruled whether you can be terminated from a contract for stating them publicly, if it was against your employers code of conduct, which was RA case or a employment contract, although I believe that Izzy’s contract did not contain a cause regarding his right to make statements.

To me, his professed principles contradict his actions, as he said after the first incident he wouldn’t do it again but he went ahead and doubled down.

Obviously, not a man of his word.

I also agree with you about RA’s lack of conviction.
 
This ridiculous Folau Saga was was created by magnifying his personal view and making it relevant by putting it in the spot light where it did not belong .

By denying his right to free speech they made a megaphone monster out of it and they gave it world exposure and the winner was the person that wanted to make his opinion relevant .

Whether one is right or wrong on what they believe in, they do have a right of free speech in a democracy as Folau walks away with a lucrative settlement paid in full by the free speech oppressors and his opinion made relevant all over the world .

Why is free speech important to a Society

Freedom of expression is a fundamental human right. It reinforces all other human rights, allowing society to develop and progress. The ability to express our opinion and speak freely is essential to bring about change in society. ... When we talk about rights today they wouldn't have been achieved without free speech

CDE5F83D-FA5A-4848-B602-5C39104C9D57.jpg
 
Fully agree Muzz .... my point was simply you can't have a go at Folau for not going all the way on principle without applying the same judgement to the RA ...
Depends on what they wanted to achieve. If they wanted to limit the damage being done to both RA and the LGBQ(IXTYSKYF etc.) community then the best outcome is surely to end things as quickly as possible whilst removing the offending party including their ability to grab the spotlight. If they wanted a moral victory over a religious zealot with little to no respect for others then sure they could have won but the cost and damage would have been far higher....and we would have even more religious organisations jumping up and down about how their right to discriminate was being discriminated against :drunk:.
 
Yep the whole free speech suppression is a fcking joke
Question:
In your mind, is there something that Izzy or someone else could have said that would warrant dismissal?
e.g. a woman is her husband's property and he can do to her what he wishes.
 
Question:
In your mind, is there something that Izzy or someone else could have said that would warrant dismissal?
e.g. a woman is her husband's property and he can do to her what he wishes.

In my democratic human rights mind

Forcing a person to do what one wishes and denies the other persons feelings

is the same oppression where one denies another persons feelings of freedom of speech

images.jpg
 
I'm not sure but again, as the ole free speech chestnut has been raised...

I didn't think Aust had any actual free speech laws? Could be wrong.

And usually, what's forgotten by those deriding the absence of such is that Free speech doesn't mean free of consequences.

"Your right to swing your fist in public ends at my head.""
 
In my democratic human rights mind

Forcing a person to do what one wishes and denies the other persons feelings

is the same oppression where one denies another persons feelings of freedom of speech
So one should be free to say whatever they like?
What if I suggested that all people of mediterranean descent were thieves and it is unwise to trust them?
 

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