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LeonardCohen

Bencher
I have never been able to fathom the idea that DCE’s contract has caused salary cap problems…it’s the biggest myth at our club. What he earns is not too much for a representative level half at any club.

We had a roster that was building towards a premiership until we let Koroisau go to accomodate Fainu who then got in trouble. AFB wanted out for personal reasons and Taupau went off the boil. It’s possible for us to build a quality squad with DCE’s contract in the mix. We just haven’t recruited smart.

Put it this way, if we released DCE, we’d still need a half to replace him and I’m guessing most of you want it to be a good one, yeah? Well they usually cost upwards of 800k. That’s gonna leave us with a spare 500k at the most. So anyone think 500k is the difference between a premiership roster and an also ran? I doubt it.
 

mickqld

Sea Eagle forever
Tipping Member
I think that DCE appears to play well in origin simply because he's surrounded by the elite players who have the hunger to win at all costs. Then he comes back to Manly surrounded by mediocrity, laziness , traffic cone turnstiles. Pretty hard to soar like an Eagle when you're carrying lead weights.
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Thurston will go down as one of the all time greats. Fact

How many premierships did he win as the premier half at the cowboys? One

The cowboys, gifted with the best best half of the decade might have also won a spoon? (someone check that though before I post)

DCE record at club level (as painful as it is for us) will go down in the Thurston category.

My mates that don’t support manly always say “I wish we had DCE then we would be a good team”. My response is usually “then you would have no cap space left like us and have a tram with Morgan Harper”.


Most teams pay big money to secure the best spine players because they create the opportunities in attack. The Eels have forked out huge salaries to Brown, Moses and Gutherson yet they've played a total of 4 SOOs between them. Not unusual. Brown, who is yet to play a rep game, is on a million a season for 8 years. You pay for quality. The salary cap has ended the days when a team like Manly can have half a dozen of the best players in the game in the one team. Only teams that fudge either through TPAs or paper bags can bypass that restriction
 

XV-1

First Grader
Most teams pay big money to secure the best spine players because they create the opportunities in attack. The Eels have forked out huge salaries to Brown, Moses and Gutherson yet they've played a total of 4 SOOs between them. Not unusual. Brown, who is yet to play a rep game, is on a million a season for 8 years. You pay for quality. The salary cap has ended the days when a team like Manly can have half a dozen of the best players in the game in the one team. Only teams that fudge either through TPAs or paper bags can bypass that restriction

Dylan Brown has played 5 test matchs for New Zealand.
 

Tragic Eagle

Tragic
Premium Member
Tipping Member
My theory regarding DCE origin version and DCE Manly version is that he has more belief in those around during origin and he plays his natural game where he is not trying to compensate for others or overplay his hand. That is understandable. DCE was brilliant on Wednesday night and disappointingly the press can't take their eyes off of their favourites and give him the praise he deserves. The person that gave him a rating of 6 out of 10 must have been extremely intoxicated during the game. I have often been critical of DCE at club level for trying to do too much on his own. I'm starting to understand why this occurs. It is not however the solution and we need him to play just as he does in origin at club level.

In the modern game you can't have one player in the 17 that is suspect in defence and we often have a number of them in the backline. That for mine is the fault of the those responsible for retention and recruitment and those selecting our 17 each week. It adversely affects our edge defence because good defenders are distracted by trying to cover for the poor defender next to them and that leads poor reads and or low percentage decisions such as running in to shut down the play and when failing to do so leaving the opposition with a clear overlap and an easy try. Our edge defence is at times embarrassing.
 

manly al

First Grader
D C E plays his best footy and can showcase his excellent skill level much better when games are more on the free flowing and open style of play , whether S O O or club footy . S O O games tend to be more open , not so much with many Manly games in his tenure there . Always has been and probably will continue to be an issue of overall game management but has definitely seemed to simplify and consequently improve some facets of his game this season while still maintaining the same level of good effort . Was in pretty good touch also after the S O O series last season but then his form level not helped with the injury and drop off in overall team form for most the remaining games . Maybe still a bit of a misconception with his full salary arrangement as probably has a marquee and T P A allowance with his deal so probably more on Turbo 's scale , . Still a very considerable chunk of the cap , maybe less so with the purported cap increase but also no doubt would have some ratchetting provision . As in regard to comparisons with Thurston or say Cronk and consistent club level performance , Thurston and Cronk still quite a bit in the ascendancy but definitely going very well this season and a Manly standout for sure .
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I have never been able to fathom the idea that DCE’s contract has caused salary cap problems…it’s the biggest myth at our club. What he earns is not too much for a representative level half at any club.

We had a roster that was building towards a premiership until we let Koroisau go to accomodate Fainu who then got in trouble. AFB wanted out for personal reasons and Taupau went off the boil. It’s possible for us to build a quality squad with DCE’s contract in the mix. We just haven’t recruited smart.

Put it this way, if we released DCE, we’d still need a half to replace him and I’m guessing most of you want it to be a good one, yeah? Well they usually cost upwards of 800k. That’s gonna leave us with a spare 500k at the most. So anyone think 500k is the difference between a premiership roster and an also ran? I doubt it.
the salary cap has been an evolving tool over the last 8 seasons that needs consideration . early it was uncommon to have 1 million dollar player where now its 3 or 4

cap space. early on DCE had a 3rd party deal with fox and while party deals are largely unknown there are articles around 2020 and 21 that indicate club values .i would suggest its minimal and cap relief in his contract, where other clubs manipulate it better but he is close to 1 for 1 dollar which make any budget tougher. not his fault but still factor in building a squad

building a consistent halves pairing has and always will be about providing consistent halves coin.....consistently
Green and Foran were our best pairing both in the 300s
moved on for coin
so many other potential suitors, mostly with clubs carrying part of there salary like elgey, hodginson,
best prospect of that time........hastings mmmmmmm

I think its too easy just comparing players and stats. you have to look at what you want from a half
his reluctance to play ball or kick at the line with pace. and the part time hopeful options cap space has allowed has written its own story.

the question is how do we the fit some of the NON negotiable NRL practices in the team around him both financially and by position
does schuster move

cooper cronk played busted in the GF just to general his team, you cant play like that uninjured. its a team sport

his goes hard at defence because it runs at him and is unavoidable. its the avoidables

the salary cap is consolidated revenue with ratchet clauses but if your doing your household budget , its amazing what happens when your mortgage stops. you just look at money differently. tom and jakes contracts are part of the issue also

but i like your thinking , Lets get mythbusters on the DCE cause i say
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
D C E plays his best footy and can showcase his excellent skill level much better when games are more on the free flowing and open style of play , whether S O O or club footy . S O O games tend to be more open , not so much with many Manly games in his tenure there . Always has been and probably will continue to be an issue of overall game management but has definitely seemed to simplify and consequently improve some facets of his game this season while still maintaining the same level of good effort . Was in pretty good touch also after the S O O series last season but then his form level not helped with the injury and drop off in overall team form for most the remaining games . Maybe still a bit of a misconception with his full salary arrangement as probably has a marquee and T P A allowance with his deal so probably more on Turbo 's scale , . Still a very considerable chunk of the cap , maybe less so with the purported cap increase but also no doubt would have some ratchetting provision . As in regard to comparisons with Thurston or say Cronk and consistent club level performance , Thurston and Cronk still quite a bit in the ascendancy but definitely going very well this season and a Manly standout for sure .
hey al i was writing mine about Tpa at the same time
not disputing as i know nothing but what ive read. timing buddy
 

manly al

First Grader
hey al i was writing mine about Tpa at the same time
not disputing as i know nothing but what ive read. timing buddy
Yeah , i am just assuming that a T P A still applies with D C E but no doubt the marquee allowance still does . Blake Green was probably an underestimated commodity with Manly and with his ability to give the attack some good shape and reads , bit sus in defence unfortunately at times .still maintain that Dylan Walker was a definite asset as a 6 for Manly as well . Foz was an unexpected bonus for Manly on his return, maybe a bit down on zip but not that much and his ability to direct and set up plays just i st class . So much has depended on Shu being available and playing well consistently and to help D C E 's game , wish every outcome could be like against the Raiders recently At least in the sense of the Manly halves complimenting each other well and maximizing their game effectiveness and taking the pressure off each other
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Yeah , i am just assuming that a T P A still applies with D C E but no doubt the marquee allowance still does . Blake Green was probably an underestimated commodity with Manly and with his ability to give the attack some good shape and reads , bit sus in defence unfortunately at times .still maintain that Dylan Walker was a definite asset as a 6 for Manly as well . Foz was an unexpected bonus for Manly on his return, maybe a bit down on zip but not that much and his ability to direct and set up plays just i st class . So much has depended on Shu being available and playing well consistently and to help D C E 's game , wish every outcome could be like against the Raiders recently At least in the sense of the Manly halves complimenting each other well and maximizing their game effectiveness and taking the pressure off each other
forgot about walker. thought the same. just loves the challenge
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
building a consistent halves pairing has and always will be about providing consistent halves coin.....consistently
Green and Foran were our best pairing both in the 300s
moved on for coin
Haha. Foran moved himself on because he was desperate to get out of the joint and the Eels were giving him $1.2m per year (reported at the time). As everyone now knows, if Foz was upfront about wanting out then DCE never would have been on his massive long term deal.

As for Green, also blaming DCE for that? Come on! Green had willingly signed a contract with Manly at a price he was happy with, but 12 months later he was refusing to train because he wanted a release to join the Warriors. Should we have forced him to play reserve grade? (Always good for squad morale) Or hey ... maybe if we should have offered him a big pay raise, to reward him for refusing to train??
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
As for Foran's more recent exit, that has more to do with the club deciding (no doubt encouraged by a player manager) it was time to find out what fruit a certain Joshua tree might bear.
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Dylan Brown has played 5 test matchs for New Zealand.


Point taken. Missed that one. However the issue remains unchanged. Clubs pay big money for quality spine. Cant be avoided if you want to compete. We've struggled with hooker and five eighth for a long while, not because of money issues. Had a great hooker in Fainu but unfortunately. And we've had Turbo out for 50% of the time in the past 4 years.
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Haha. Foran moved himself on because he was desperate to get out of the joint and the Eels were giving him $1.2m per year (reported at the time). As everyone now knows, if Foz was upfront about wanting out then DCE never would have been on his massive long term deal.

As for Green, also blaming DCE for that? Come on! Green had willingly signed a contract with Manly at a price he was happy with, but 12 months later he was refusing to train because he wanted a release to join the Warriors. Should we have forced him to play reserve grade? (Always good for squad morale) Or hey ... maybe if we should have offered him a big pay raise, to reward him for refusing to train??
my previous post doesnt reflect the first foran departure. it wasnt in my thinking at all. just an oversight on my behalf. I still see that as the BC and AD when i talk about our teams demise and culture

even still way out of context
everyones wage is connected

i never blamed anyone.you crack me up, i was saying that since he has been the number 7 his partners have often got a third or quarter of his wage but needed to do just as much if not more in terms of creative output and rarely does it end well. at best we get cherrypicked for underpaying if there good or disposable if not

surely a history of his halves partners are a better indicator of what manly can afford rather that you chopping off because i questioned your man.
didnt you retire, relax mate its friday. dont let me push your buttons. still i chuckled all through this
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
my previous post doesnt reflect the first foran departure. it wasnt in my thinking at all. just an oversight on my behalf. I still see that as the BC and AD when i talk about our teams demise and culture

even still way out of context
everyones wage is connected

i never blamed anyone.you crack me up, i was saying that since he has been the number 7 his partners have often got a third or quarter of his wage but needed to do just as much if not more in terms of creative output and rarely does it end well. at best we get cherrypicked for underpaying if there good or disposable if not

surely a history of his halves partners are a better indicator of what manly can afford rather that you chopping off because i questioned your man.
didnt you retire, relax mate its friday. dont let me push your buttons. still i chuckled all through this


I've never blamed Foran for leaving for a better offer. That's just business. Not happy that he did so leaving us causing a desperate fight and cost to get DCE back, but I doubt there was malicious intent. He was a fine five eighth and he and DCE were the added factor that won us the 2011 premiership.

His return, again I dont blame Foran. He had an offer and he made a business decision. I was annoyed with Hasler's rather duplicitous action with Schuster at that time. But that's history. Foran put his heart into his performnce with Manly and surprised us that his body stood up to it after years of serious problems. He tried his best. My only concern was we had a fine young five eighth on the rise and neutered his effectiveness. Not Foran's fault. Will always have a high regard for Foran's efforts at Manly and hope his body allows him to continue for a few years yet. Just think it wasn't wise, in my opinion, for Manly to invite him back when we had a young star on the rise.
 

XV-1

First Grader
Well we were set to sign Mitchell Pearce at one stage before his old man warned him off the place, so we obviously had enough dosh under the cap to make him a good offer.

It was Greenturd that stepped in and vetoed it due to our at the time BS salary cap breaches.
 

Highflier

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
It was Greenturd that stepped in and vetoed it due to our at the time BS salary cap breaches.
Greenturd ,my blood boils every time that dickheads name is mentioned .
Just a bald headed, 24 carrot ,incompetent ,manly hating flogger who left Rugby League a lot worse than that what he found it.
A skid mark on the history of Rugby League is how I would describe his tenure ,disgraceful .
Glad he is flushed and now happily phuking up cricket ( a win for Rugby League and a sure soon to be loss for cricket), in fact he's barely qualified to organise the sandwiches at a primary school tuck shop !
 

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