Stats breakthrough that won Manly the competition

[arty]

So the question begs is 2V going to keep using the CVR

Can he avoid using them? But who will be actually providing all this information for Tooves? Has a statistician been appointed yet for 2012?

No - this will be done by the coaching team with the support of a Part Time asisstant

Offer it to David Middleton?

 

[Shoe1]

Anyway I reckon choc scored at least 4 tries from memory in 2011 - touching down a grubber vs dogs, one that bounced off the posts against cowboys, one where he went from dummy half against easts, and one that may have been against canberra running 15 or so metres. And that is without checking any stats.

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Couldn't help myself - officially he got 5 in 2011, 4 in 2010, 8 in 2009 and 8 in 2008.

 

[Phantar]

The article implies it was all down to correctly analysing the stats when it came to winning the comp.

Good article - but there was more to our success than just that. But I do hope that interpreting these stats and acting upon them, remains part of our off-field set-up.

 

[lloydy]

I agree it's great that these stats improved the team, but my blind uncle John could have told Choc where he needed to improve his game.

 

[willstyles]

So the question begs is 2V going to keep using the CVR

Can he avoid using them? But who will be actually providing all this information for Tooves? Has a statistician been appointed yet for 2012?

No - this will be done by the coaching team with the support of a Part Time asisstant

So we're replacing the best in the business in this role with a part-time assistant? That doesn't seem wise.

I agree with the general consensus on this as well - way too simplistic to point success at this theory. Rugby league isn't like baseball (no sport is so heavily statistics-based). It's also the most "individual" team sport there is, so you can read into stats a great deal more than you can in a game like rugby league.

But there is some merit to it as well of course, as there is with all statistics. This is just a way of breaking it down quickly I suppose.

For what it's worth, I think Will's value extends far beyond this Moneyball-type theory. He's the second biggest loss (behind Hasler) of the off-season. And I think Hasler knew that too - would've found this a whole lot more difficult at the Dogs if Will wasn't there working in the background.

 

[Stevo]

If used to help fix a weakness a player may have i reckon it's a good idea. If you use it to compare 2 very different players from 2 very different eras, it is a waste of time.

 

[mickyj]

The only stats Des needs to worry about are
1. Manly are champs
2. Dogs are chumps

Stats are a tool but are no way the complete picture.

 

[mozgrame]

Like Willie Mason in team photos.

 

[Berkeley_Eagle]

So now this info is out all the other teams will adopt this and 2V will come up with something else

 

[arty]

The article implies it was all down to correctly analysing the stats when it came to winning the comp.

Good article - but there was more to our success than just that. But I do hope that interpreting these stats and acting upon them, remains part of our off-field set-up.

Yes,,,facts often tell more than mere opinions...opinions can, with stats, be more likely to become informed opinions. .The system frees the coach from relying on personal favourites.But how do you fairly evaluate new player performance based on comparative measurements at the beginning of the season or, later for those who get little game time during it? An informed eye, however, can often be aware of a few things stats can't measure. And sometimes these. like attitude, can be very significant...

 

[The Eagle]

So Des used kpi's on his players? Hypocrite much?

 

[HappilyManly]

Anyway I reckon choc scored at least 4 tries from memory in 2011 - touching down a grubber vs dogs, one that bounced off the posts against cowboys, one where he went from dummy half against easts, and one that may have been against canberra running 15 or so metres. And that is without checking any stats.

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Couldn't help myself - officially he got 5 in 2011, 4 in 2010, 8 in 2009 and 8 in 2008.

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Correction for the DT article (so much for statistics :lol🙂
Choc Stats:
-2010 had 4 tries -http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seasons/nrl-2010/manly-warringah/summary.html
-2011 had 5 tries -http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seasons/nrl-2011/manly-warringah/summary.html

Comparing Gallen and Raper is ludicrous. 1966 had unlimited tackles, a huge factor in our game. Aints never gave the ball back - so Raper got the meters 🙂
The Player CVR also do not show the quality of the oppostion Team or in fact that of the Player's own team.
Gallen is playing in an era where Teams are made up of professional Athletes. Raper was in the era where amateurs were playing with/against only a few with real natural talent.

2V has his own ideas on how to chart consistency and mental attitude to winning games, and 2012 will be a revelation IMO 😀

 

[MK Eagle]

The most important stats are how many you win, how many you lose. Maybe the cattle Des HAD at Manly were that darn good it made this system look like a winner yet will not be so effective at the pups??
The only stat that is a concern imo is the yards Hoppa ate up every game giving a spring board & getting Manly on the front foot which I think Wolf & Oldy will replicate as the season go's on.
If Tooves has the team commited & focussed for 2012 his passion will have the players playing out of their skins more than ever & these stats will take care of themselves, which I think he will.

 

[arty]

The most important stats are how many you win, how many you lose. Maybe the cattle Des HAD at Manly were that darn good it made this system look like a winner yet will not be so effective at the pups??
The only stat that is a concern imo is the yards Hoppa ate up every game giving a spring board & getting Manly on the front foot which I think Wolf & Oldy will replicate as the season go's on.
If Tooves has the team commited & focussed for 2012 his passion will have the players playing out of their skins more than ever & these stats will take care of themselves, which I think he will.

Yes, The best coach is usually the coach with the best players?

 

[Dan79]

It couldnt be any more obvious that when a team has a good year, the stats reflect the results. Very hard to prove that these stats played a huge part in getting the results.

5 other reasons we won the grandfinal
1. Manly had a superior for and against record
2. The opposition had a weaker roster
3. Manly were more fortunate when it came down to injury
4. Manly were better hydrated during the match
5. Manly had a better attitude, and is champion team filled with champion players.

You cant argue with any of those points

 

[Rex]

I can prove that Kingston Town and Phar Lap would be the last 2 placed horses in the maiden mile at Kembla on Saturday.

Outstanding effort if they placed given they're both dead.

 

[lsz]

MK you do not think these stats contribute to the overall win / loss?

As many have said this is part of the view not the whole view - lets hope the club can replace what is a key in the teams long term success

 

[captainskin]

Even when you watch the movie MONEYBALL, the Oakland As took a while to begin winning. At first they couldn't win a thing, and it came down to attitude. Many were calling for the head of the GM and stating it wouldn't work. And when it started working, even then, the coach was not supportive and had an attitude. But if a player has an ability to (get on base) make the right decisions and perform the necessary actions on the field, if the attitude isn't there, neither is the magic... and that leads to wins.

 

[bob dylan]

A computer program that tell us Raper is a better player than Lardarse Gallen.

He must be f%@?*n genius to come up with that, thank god he has gone to the Dogs.

In 10 months time he will be able to tell us the Dogs side of 2012 is not as good the 2011 Manly side.

 

[Chip and Chase]

You didn't need a computer programme to work out Watnow had too many errors and stupid penalties in his game.