Stats breakthrough that won Manly the competition

[Biscuits]

i have no doubt that these stats would be useful, especially when it comes to poimting out to a player where he needs to improve. If you see it in black and white and in terms of figures and percentages, it will get thgrough to even the most egotistical of boneheads. But i doubt there is any sport in the world that the individual is more reliant on his team mates and visa versa. You get **** metres from a run due to the previous runner being dominated, a slow play the ball, a crap pass from dummy half. How does the 3 metres gained from that run make you a poor player. Good footballers stand out and poor footballers get found out. as it stands right now, we have more in the first category and less in the second category than the dogs have. And i dont need computers crunching numbers to show me that. Hasler may be able to improve his new team over time with these stats, but is more likely to come through player turnover than player improvement.

 

[Rex]

Missed tackles, metres gained, errors, etc, etc. Hardly rocket science that coaches collect these sort of figures and speak to their players about improving them.

What the DT seem to be alleging is that adding them all into an overall figure to indicate value per minute played is a revolution. Really? Seriously?

If this were so then it would be idiocy to relinquish a competitive advantage by releasing this to the DT for all other teams to replicate.

Any value of the system derives from the judgement of how much weight to apply to the different factors. The system itself is just a simple spreadsheet that a user could put together within an hour. Hardly Ironstine stuff.

 

[Dan79]

Missed tackles, metres gained, errors, etc, etc. Hardly rocket science that coaches collect these sort of figures and speak to their players about improving them.

What the DT seem to be alleging is that adding them all into an overall figure to indicate value per minute played is a revolution. Really? Seriously?

If this were so then it would be idiocy to relinquish a competitive advantage by releasing this to the DT for all other teams to replicate.

Any value of the system derives from the judgement of how much weight to apply to the different factors. The system itself is just a simple spreadsheet that a user could put together within an hour. Hardly Ironstine stuff.

I should have patented the spreadsheet i developed for my fantasy team. almost went back to back this year....

 

[Boozo]

Knowing where a weakness is(via stats) is a different thing to having the attitude, fitness and discipline to fix that weakness.

 

[eagles2win]

Still think the forward pack (mainly the props) should perform better stats wise

 

[MK Eagle]

MK you do not think these stats contribute to the overall win / loss?

As many have said this is part of the view not the whole view - lets hope the club can replace what is a key in the teams long term success

For mine Isz many put the cart before the horse. Stats only reflect the effort & desire players leave behind them on the field. In the trenches the last thing the recent victorious Manly team thought about was the numbers on a piece of paper, it was defending with commitment & offensively wearing opposition down & cashing in on the hard work done previously- results follow accordingly. This is why we won those tight games against Ees, Sharks ect - the extra 1% plays & 2nd efforts for the entire 80 mins. Many teams who dipped outside the 8 whine about losing several 1-6 point games that they lost imo not due to stats, but by not contributing those extra 1% plays,the dif between winning & losing.

 

[mozgrame]

It's the stas gathered in previous games that help coaches work on players to get those extra 1% efforts out. It's black and white proof to the players that they need to lift their efforts in certain areas and when they respond to these tips their game improves.

 

[The Who]

Winning is about attitude and culture. Nothing bears this out more than the Brisbane soccer team that went undefeated for 36 matches. Now they have lost four consecutive matches.
You must put that down to confidence, and then losing that confidence.
To a lesser extend it showed with Illawarra last season. Certain clubs are used to success, and it shows in their consistent results. Other clubs are used to failure, like Cronulla. And before them The Bears.

 

[MK Eagle]

It's the stas gathered in previous games that help coaches work on players to get those extra 1% efforts out. It's black and white proof to the players that they need to lift their efforts in certain areas and when they respond to these tips their game improves.

I get the idea that stats can help a player tweak parts of their game that need improving Moz - but I still think when players are down & out in the trenches its not the numbers that inspires but the heart.
Heres my example - you get big Willy Mason who tears apart soft uncommitted defences & ran for 200 metres & scored a try - the stats look very good.
Ok , now he plays against an intimidating pack who belt the s**t out of him & he go's missing with 32 metres gained & 2 dropped balls. Give him the report card & like most players the next week he will still be Willy - stats dont make the heart bigger.
If this was say BK against these 2 various defences his stats would still be consistent - why - because he was a competitor with guts & desire - not because he wants to see a good report card.
No offence Moz but the best players make great stats with commitment, desire, confidence making quality execution & making the plays.
People can talk up stats all day but watch Des's pups stats next season when he has inferior cattle - the players won the GF - not Des stats - please.

 

[arty]

It's the stas gathered in previous games that help coaches work on players to get those extra 1% efforts out. It's black and white proof to the players that they need to lift their efforts in certain areas and when they respond to these tips their game improves.

I get the idea that stats can help a player tweak parts of their game that need improving Moz - but I still think when players are down & out in the trenches its not the numbers that inspires but the heart.
Heres my example - you get big Willy Mason who tears apart soft uncommitted defences & ran for 200 metres & scored a try - the stats look very good.
Ok , now he plays against an intimidating pack who belt the s**t out of him & he go's missing with 32 metres gained & 2 dropped balls. Give him the report card & like most players the next week he will still be Willy - stats dont make the heart bigger.
If this was say BK against these 2 various defences his stats would still be consistent - why - because he was a competitor with guts & desire - not because he wants to see a good report card.
No offence Moz but the best players make great stats with commitment, desire, confidence making quality execution & making the plays.
People can talk up stats all day but watch Des's pups stats next season when he has inferior cattle - the players won the GF - not Des stats - please.

Would the players have actually got to the GF without the stats?

 

[mozgrame]

I know what you're saying MK, and i agree with you about the heart and souls of champion players. I don't think coaches are all that worried about the report cards of their top line players. It's the new to NRL and reasonably inexperienced players that can benefit greatly from the help of stats. Players coming back from major injury would also have their confidence raised from the actual, black and white proof that their games were improving due to the tips given from coaches, drawn from the help of stats. (Longest sentence ever!!)
I believe it inspires confidence to be able to table positive feedback in front of a player. To be able to pat him on the back and say "That's all you mate". He will lift more and more each week. Why do people always associate report cards with bad or negative news??

 

[MK Eagle]

I know what you're saying MK, and i agree with you about the heart and soles of champion players. I don't think coaches are all that worried about the report cards of their top line players. It's the new to NRL and reasonably inexperienced players that can benefit greatly from the help of stats. Players coming back from major injury would also have their confidence raised from the actual, black and white proof that their games were improving due to the tips given from coaches, drawn from the help of stats. (Longest sentence ever!!)
I believe it inspires confidence to be able to table positive feedback in front of a player. To be able to pat him on the back and say "That's all you mate". He will lift more and more each week. Why do people always associate report cards with bad or negative news??

I probably associate report cards with bad news from the old high school days mate..
I just think the Des stat book is a little overrated when talking of the GF victory. Theres a place for stats but we dont want the game to become too robotic. I think Des likes the control so much he could have played the role of Hugh Jackman in that real steel movie.

 

[Phantar]

I think Des likes the control so much he could have played the role of Hugh Jackman in that real steel movie.

Which was as successful at the box office as Des will be at the Dogs...

 

[mozgrame]

As box office stats will prove.