Single biggest issue…

The single biggest issue holding Manly back is:

  • Tom’s injuries

    Votes: 23 17.3%
  • Lack of forward mobility and leg speed

    Votes: 41 30.8%
  • Dessie’s coaching (structures, use of bench, etc.)

    Votes: 20 15.0%
  • Overall team fitness and conditioning

    Votes: 19 14.3%
  • DCE’s leadership and/or contract size

    Votes: 17 12.8%
  • Lack of genuine 9/threat around the ruck

    Votes: 13 9.8%

  • Total voters
    133
Bencher
If you checked the top teams that wouldn’t be far from being different for bay of them.

Our overpaid one is probably Jake , but there’s a few on that same money !
I wouldn't know what other teams pay their players but with us playing these exorbit contracts we haven't been able to sign any good 1st grade players for ages.
 
Snake's Alive!
I voted this too.
We were one game away from the GF last year with pretty much the same squad.

Yes, our forwards could be better.
Yes, to most ( if not all ) of the other options but if Tom plays only 20 games a year we're in the Top 6.
Even through our golden period we had something like only a 50% win ratio without Snake.

Look at Souffs, they were treading water until Mitchell came back, I hate to say it but now they look like a confident football side.

The Storm were real Premiership contenders until Rd 9 when Pap got injured, even his first game back v us he nearly conjured a miraculous comeback.
They miss Pap more than they miss Christian Welch.
I wouldn't be surprised if they keep Munster there for the rest of the year now.

Take Teddy out of the Chooks and see how they go? Okay they'd put Manu there but....
When we played the Knights, Ponga was their only threat.
How would Parra go without Guffo?

The Sharks struggled a bit the other night without Kennedy, he's not in the Top 6 fullbacks but he means so much to their play, just like Edwards at the Panthers.
Look at Drinkwater at the Cows.

Yes, it's the sum of many parts but Turbo is the answer.
Really interesting take. Thanks for the thoughtful response.
 
Sea Eagle forever
Single biggest issue.
Where is the $1.3 mil goose on this list.
Screenshot_20220808-221300_Facebook.jpg
 
True Supporter
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Member
I think we'd really notice what DCE does if he wasn't there. He has some weaknesses in his game but he was playing behind the Penrith pack, I think he'd be destroying opposition.
And how do you think we'd be going with Cleary at 7 for us ?? A lot better than we currently are is my guess.
 
I'm not really Mal Cochrane...
I voted Tom missing too many games, mainly because its a lot of money to sit in the grandstand that means:

a) we lose a strike weapon
b) cant use that money to strengthen other positions.
 
Bencher
I've said it many times before, and will say it again, we are a dumb football team. During games, we consistently take the wrong options, and, at times, are our own worst enemies. Game management is a huge issue and that comes down to our generals and game managers i.e. the halves.

Is turbo the answer to our problems? I am not sure he is with our dependency on him to create 'spark'. If we are going to get the most out of Turbo we need to learn to use him as a foil as much as utilizing his ability to create. His ability to draw defenders is going to create space elsewhere. At the moment it is just 'chuck it to Turbo' when playing.

Again, like anything, it comes down to using the resources we have available and getting the best bang for your buck. IMO, we have the cattle (Saab, Tuipolotu, Davey, Koula, Olakalatu'u, etc.), we are just not utilizing the talent to the best of our ability. Is that Des, or is it the halves?

Another question, what is going on with Schuster? Has a blinder alongside Foran during SOO, then can't get a run on with the side afterwards?
 
Bencher
Really interesting take. Thanks for the thoughtful response.
Thanks @Snake and I think what it highlights is how one "gun" player can have such an influence on his teammates.

The ones calling for DCE's head miss the fact that he came 4th in the Dally M's last year.
We had two players in the Top 4, Garrick was leading points scorer and one of the wingers on the team of the year (with To'o).

Did our forwards play that much better last year to enable Tom and DCE to dominate?
 
Reserve Grader
AND our depth looks to have dropped away dramatically. Have a look at the team list BWSE put out on Sunday and not one of them is first grade standard. Our so called "young guns coming through" e.g. Jersey Flegg have been flogged the last 2 weeks and we missed the top 8 in both HM & SG. Add this to the fact we have only signed Tuilagi and we look very short on talent wise leading into next year.
 
First Grader
Ok Snake - I alrerady had a crack and don't wanna be greedy, but this plays on me almost weekly and I overlooked it first post, as I generally feel attack comes off the back of energetic committed defence.
This is an attacking issue !!
Where are the direct runners ??
The support runner of the ball carrier ??
Watching Cows, Penrith, Souths they have blokes zooming up inside and out in support....in fact ANY Top team since day dot have this as a major part of the success.
The beauty of this which will often not get the acclaim it deserves, when support is in abundance, the defenders cannot simply "gang up" on the ball carrier having to stick and get dragged by the possibility of the support player getting the ball, which takes heat off the ball carrier who will then bend the line and win a far quicker play ball winning the momentum we so often lack.
Also the support player can mismanage the defensive line, as the structures will change based on where the support runners and open further opportunities that set.
We seem to have big bodies in the middle determined to amble into the defence and turn and pass to guess who....a flat footed team mate.
The Cows pack may lack our size but make up for it with punch !!
Running FULL steam ahead in numbers and thinking of coming out the other side rather than - let's stop here...halt the momentum and pass back to a bloke in a worse position and hope....in fact they probably have more offloads based on hitting it up 100mph and skittling defenders which will automatically have their mates pushing up hard also.
It comes down to hard, direct runners wanting the collision and determined to win it, with the fact there is always 2 or more support players who believe they will and effectively this pattern will take far more out of the defensive line, which may explain how tired we often look in the ruck.
 
Journey Man
Ok Snake - I alrerady had a crack and don't wanna be greedy, but this plays on me almost weekly and I overlooked it first post, as I generally feel attack comes off the back of energetic committed defence.
This is an attacking issue !!
Where are the direct runners ??
The support runner of the ball carrier ??
Watching Cows, Penrith, Souths they have blokes zooming up inside and out in support....in fact ANY Top team since day dot have this as a major part of the success.
The beauty of this which will often not get the acclaim it deserves, when support is in abundance, the defenders cannot simply "gang up" on the ball carrier having to stick and get dragged by the possibility of the support player getting the ball, which takes heat off the ball carrier who will then bend the line and win a far quicker play ball winning the momentum we so often lack.
Also the support player can mismanage the defensive line, as the structures will change based on where the support runners and open further opportunities that set.
We seem to have big bodies in the middle determined to amble into the defence and turn and pass to guess who....a flat footed team mate.
The Cows pack may lack our size but make up for it with punch !!
Running FULL steam ahead in numbers and thinking of coming out the other side rather than - let's stop here...halt the momentum and pass back to a bloke in a worse position and hope....in fact they probably have more offloads based on hitting it up 100mph and skittling defenders which will automatically have their mates pushing up hard also.
It comes down to hard, direct runners wanting the collision and determined to win it, with the fact there is always 2 or more support players who believe they will and effectively this pattern will take far more out of the defensive line, which may explain how tired we often look in the ruck.
My simplistic explanation for your pertinent observations is that when Turbo plays he has the eyes of several defenders on him. He runs a lot in support which causes defensive confusion. Without him our attack is contained much more easily. We rely on balls sweeping to the wings. There is no longer any inside ball to a fullback on the move so the defence just slides out.
For me, losing Turbo has brought us back from a top four team to where we are now placed.
 
First Grader
My simplistic explanation for your pertinent observations is that when Turbo plays he has the eyes of several defenders on him. He runs a lot in support which causes defensive confusion. Without him our attack is contained much more easily. We rely on balls sweeping to the wings. There is no longer any inside ball to a fullback on the move so the defence just slides out.
For me, losing Turbo has brought us back from a top four team to where we are now placed.
You "The Who" are 100% correct.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
And how do you think we'd be going with Cleary at 7 for us ?? A lot better than we currently are is my guess.
We would be going great if Kikau, Martin, Fisher-Harris, Koroisau, Yeo, and throw in unheralded fullback Dylan Edwards, who has the ability to play injured, all came as well.
The reality is that with just Cleary coming over, things may improve, but not much
 
Journey Man
In my view, Des just sucks at every single aspect of coaching nowadays:

IMPORTANT REASON
  • Can't attract players
  • Consistently has players wanting to leave mid contract

STATS
Since (and including) 2017 (Des Hasler):
Current Season: 9 wins, 11 losses
2021 season: 16 wins, 8 losses (season proper)
2021 season: 1 win, 2 losses (finals)
2020 season: 7 wins, 13 losses (season proper)
2019 season: 14 wins, 10 losses (season proper)
2019 season: 1 win, 1 loss (finals)
YEAR OFF after being sacked
2017 season Bulldogs: 10 wins, 14 losses (season proper)

TOTAL: 58 wins, 59 losses (0.496 coach over 5-6 years)
Made the finals 2 from 5 years (assuming he misses this year)

OTHER
  • Second worst losing streak ever in clubs 75 year history
  • Second worst defensive stats for a 20 game block in the history of rugby league
  • Of the 313 NRL coaches in history, that win% places him 152nd - in comparison, Bellamy is 9th (Has-been Hasler is a dinosaur, out of touch, and is there any wonder the players rule the asylum at Narrabeen Headquarters).
 
Last edited:
Bencher
In my view, Des just sucks at every single aspect of coaching nowadays:

IMPORTANT REASON
  • Can't attract players
  • Consistently has players wanting to leave mid contract

STATS
Since (and including) 2017 (Des Hasler):
Current Season: 9 wins, 11 losses
2021 season: 16 wins, 8 losses (season proper)
2021 season: 1 win, 2 losses (finals)
2020 season: 7 wins, 13 losses (season proper)
2019 season: 14 wins, 10 losses (season proper)
2019 season: 1 win, 1 loss (finals)
YEAR OFF after being sacked
2017 season Bulldogs: 10 wins, 14 losses (season proper)

TOTAL: 58 wins, 59 losses (0.496 coach over 5-6 years)
Made the finals 2 from 5 years (assuming he misses this year)

OTHER
  • Second worst losing streak ever in clubs 75 year history
  • Second worst defensive stats for a 20 game block in the history of rugby league
  • Of the 313 NRL coaches in history, that win% places him 152nd - in comparison, Bellamy is 9th (Has-been Hasler is a dinosaur, out of touch, and is there any wonder the players rule the asylum at Narrabeen Headquarters).
If Tommy had played out the season, you wouldn't be writing this comment.
 
Journey Man
If Tommy had played out the season, you wouldn't be writing this comment.

We were losing with him in the team (4 losses, 3 wins - which is Des record the past 6 years), and most people were saying he was nowhere near the year before performance.

Sorry, I disagree.

Individual brilliance can only carry a team for so long (until the rest of the comp cottons on), then it's back to team systems, methods, strategies, chemistry and guess what - Des systems, game-plan, and structures are ****e.
 
Bencher
We were losing with him in the team (4 losses, 3 wins - which is Des record the past 6 years), and most people were saying he was nowhere near the year before performance.

Sorry, I disagree.

Individual brilliance can only carry a team for so long (until the rest of the comp cottons on), then it's back to team systems, methods, strategies, chemistry and guess what - Des systems, game-plan, and structures are ****e.
ok..sorry I didn't qualify my comment, meant to say, if Tommy was back to being fit and injury free.
 

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