Single biggest issue…

[Snake]

We need another choice - all of the above

I deliberately left it out - as I mentioned in the post that went with the poll - what is the most significant?

I came up with the different issues for the poll, because they're all playing a part. Collectively, they've added up to a pretty ordinary season.

 

[Snake]

With the exception of Tom's injuries ... All those other options come slamming home to Dessie and coaching ...

If we don't have the forwards with the necessary mobility and leg speed ... well, Dessie put this team together.

If we aren't fit enough ... well, Dessie runs the football dept ..

DCE ... well, Dessie just extended him .. .

Yep...there's times when I wanna pick Dessie's brain about the recruitment/retention. I like what he's done with the backline, but the pack needs heaps of work.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I voted forward mobility but was more thinking of 'go-forward' as in @simon64 above.
Though I'm pleased we didn't sign Lodge.
Forward injuries have made it hard to show the side's full potential, even without Tom.
Paseka when fit cuts the mustard, and Boyle in one game showed what we've missed with his long term injuries. I hope we are keeping him for another year.
Even so, one extra line bending front rower could be on Dessies wish list for 2023

 

[robbiea]

Just waiting on the Marty upgrade.

 

[XV-1]

All of the above, however I am surprised that our Terrible Defence, especially in the last 5 mins of 1st half and last 20 mins of the 2nd half was not a choice.

Not being fit enough is one clear issue, however our defensive structures seem set to 15 years ago not 2022.

Outside of Jake and Croker we have a bunch of entitled forwards that fail to do the 1 percenters and cover for their teammates. How many times have we seen a try scored with 2 Manly players close enough to help their team mates tackling, but are standing there watching.

Fix our fitness and defence and we will be a top 3 team. Tommy and his attacking prowess will ensure that.

 

[Kalvin]

I deliberately left it out - as I mentioned in the post that went with the poll - what is the most significant?

I came up with the different issues for the poll, because they're all playing a part. Collectively, they've added up to a pretty ordinary season.

I voted on Des's coaching as basically "all of the above", as he encompasses responsibilities for retention/ recruitment/ fitness with fits in with nearly all of the options!

Not necessarily saying I want him gone, but I would like him to be open to change/evolving his coaching/ structures/ideas

 

[seaeagles4life]

For mine it's winning the ruck, all the comments on linespeed and fitness is rubbish all teams are equally fit but if you allow the opposition quicker play the balls there is no way you can get back 10m and come back to the advantage line 10m in a matter of seconds. Now the crux of the issue is twofold, manly have the least gang tackles (3 players or more) which are given more leeway in getting off the player and manly have the most proficient 1 on 1 legs tacklers IMO which are stupidly not rewarded by refs for a good legs tackle vs a gang tackle. This results in manlys linespeed being lower.

In attack the only couple critisms is not playing back inside enough i.e. when Foran played 7 and had haumole running back inside lines with support. We miss parker on the backline sweeps for this and nobody else is picking it up except Harper at times.

 

[Highflier]

With the season pretty well done and dusted, I’m curious to know what people see as the biggest footballing issue at Manly…

Of course, there can be (and probably is) more than one contributing factor, but what is the biggest?

Personally, I don’t like the lack of leg speed in the middle. I think our forwards play too slow. Every now and then, Aloiai will lift the tempo but there’s just no speed to anything that happens in the middle third of the field. The Cowboys and Penrith are 1 and 2 respectively and have heaps of leg speed in the middle. Sharks are another side with zip in the middle.

Melbourne’s forwards are starting to age and they’re struggling to play uptempo footy and have been brought back to the pack somewhat. It’s vital in the modern game.

I did put lack of genuine 9 in the poll, but I think Croker would find it easier to have an impact if he was playing off the back of a more effective pack. It’s not just about play the ball speed either, it’s about line speed in defence and sucking in defenders with speed.

Someone on here I think quoted someone else that said "forwards win matches ,the backs determine by how much " and in the sample questions I think forward mobility and leg speed is the best summary of our issues. Although there is probably a bit of everything if you really look at it.
But it all starts with the forwards ,so that's where Í think we should concentrate .
I would like to think (all though I dont know) that as DCE has been extended his current deal along with the future deal has been discounted somewhat .That along with Marty and a few other leaving should give us the cap to enable us to get a line bending front rower .If Fainu is innocent and ready to go in 23 along with a trimmer Schu and some luck with injuries(Turbo) then hold onto your hats

 

[Daddycool]

I agree with others that apart from Tom's recent injuries, much of our lack of success can be attributed to Des. That's because for mine, top of the list is Des's support of DCE. I know this has been done to death but it's still no less relevant.

DCE problem

1.We paid too much for him for too long. The money could have been used better elsewhere.
2. He's not a natural leader and I don't think the players on the whole want to play "for" him. In perhaps the way they played for Jamie Lyon, or Tom or Jake today.
3. In his mind, because he's paid like an elite level player, he perceives himself to be elite level. However, does anyone put him in the same league as Smith, Cronk, Thurston, Tedesco or even Tom? I'd say no. Elite level players don't have as many average performances & poor executions as he does.
4. If he was genuinely an elite player, why didn't the Dolphins go after him? Or anybody else? I don't recall there being any other interest before Des/Penn "snapped him up" on an extension.

Anyway, we're stuck with both for the next (I think) 3 years or so. Honestly the best I think we can hope for is, Des reduces his influence, starting with making Tom Captain.

 

[Budgie]

I think 5 of those choices lay in our problem @Snake
I say let the Dolphins take Dce off our hands and grab Jock Madden for a third of the price.
Maybe with some of the savings on Dce & Marty off the books we can buy a angry forward leader.
Spine consisting of -
A fit Turbo
Fresh start/New look Schuster
Madden
(A innocent & fit) Fainu.
Jake our new Captain ,time for a change .
Im happy to start off again with a fresh new look team.
Lets be honest -Dce isnt taking us anywhere .

Quote Reply

I have a feeling that DCE is stuck to us like glue for a long time yet. He'll play out his days here them wiggle his way into the coaching department and the team will lack passion forever.

 

[maxta]

Energy is inconsistent
Defensive lapses
2 man tackles not working
Not enough mobility in the middle
No Tom....again
Support play rare, but improving

Scary to think our biggest spark has been Walker and our best player in 22 has been Foran, both gone next season

I do see a couple of key players back and also 2-3 ultra talented kids in our system ready by 2023/24, who will have us competitive again soon enough and again a genuine force....just been a sad season with a cluster of problems and to be quite direct, we haven't been good enough and only a handful of players have showed the desire fitting of the Might Seaeagles teams from the past.

 

[Ranga]

I voted for lack of conditioning, but I’d probably sum it up more as a lack of desire. Some guys clearly give their all every single week both on an off the park, whereas I suspect others might not be that hungry for team success. That hunger might come with maturity, as the squad is still quite young overall.

It’s very possible to turn it around in an off-season though. Just look at the Cowboys.

 

[Budgie]

I wonder how Scott Penn would answer this? Or do we have a completely clueless owner?

 

[Damien2812]

$3 million plus on 3 players is our biggest issue. 😔

 

[The Who]

I doubt we can win a premiership without Turbo firing. He is our superstar; most of the better teams have at least one. Unfortunately, the way he is built I foresee him being injured a lot. He is to be admired for throwing himself into each performance, but it is at a cost to his spindly frame.

 

[BOZO]

I wonder how Scott Penn would answer this? Or do we have a completely clueless owner?

Mr Penn is not Perfect . No one is

But he is a committed Investor who has done a lot for our Legendary club that we should all be grateful for

 

[Rocky]

Starts with the Salary Cap - Others may disagree but i'm ok with the money we pay the Turbo's. Tom is worth the money when on the field (ok sure that's been a problem but we weren't going to get him for cheaper than what we signed him for. Every other team would take him for a million bucks a year right now, even with the injury history). Sure Jake is a bit overpaid but I really don't care as he offers a lot and is the heart and soul of the team.

So on to DCE - he's a really good footballer but is paid like a great one. We know his strengths and his weaknesses so don't have to add more. But if he's on 1.2m, then that's about 500k too much.

So that brings me to the forwards. As @Snake and others have outlined we lack the necessary leg speed and variety of players up front. For me the backline we can put together with Tom is good enough to win a premiership. But the forwards aren't. We have some good pieces in Jake, Guaca, Alioai and Croker but we need to upgrade some of the others.

We need a combination of young leg speed guys (such as Cotter, etc), another tough prop and/or another top experienced forward. How we get them with the current salary cap is going to be next to impossible. Even if we could have used 500k of the DCE money to buy another class forward, that would put this team on a different level.

 

[Snake]

Starts with the Salary Cap - Others may disagree but i'm ok with the money we pay the Turbo's. Tom is worth the money when on the field (ok sure that's been a problem but we weren't going to get him for cheaper than what we signed him for. Every other team would take him for a million bucks a year right now, even with the injury history). Sure Jake is a bit overpaid but I really don't care as he offers a lot and is the heart and soul of the team.

So on to DCE - he's a really good footballer but is paid like a great one. We know his strengths and his weaknesses so don't have to add more. But if he's on 1.2m, then that's about 500k too much.

So that brings me to the forwards. As @Snake and others have outlined we lack the necessary leg speed and variety of players up front. For me the backline we can put together with Tom is good enough to win a premiership. But the forwards aren't. We have some good pieces in Jake, Guaca, Alioai and Croker but we need to upgrade some of the others.

We need a combination of young leg speed guys (such as Cotter, etc), another tough prop and/or another top experienced forward. How we get them with the current salary cap is going to be next to impossible. Even if we could have used 500k of the DCE money to buy another class forward, that would put this team on a different level.

I think the answer to the forward conundrum involves junior recruitment. Chasing big name forwards (like Payne Haas) with our salary cap is impossible. I like the Aloiai signing because he has some leg speed and did not break the bank but to get 2-3 others, we probably need to look internally. I know Taupau and Davey are leaving, but Boyle, Keppie, Paseka, Sipley and De Luis are not the right kind of props for the speed of the current game. Each have had their moments and played well enough on occasions, but not consistently.

Sipley will come out and play 1 really good game and we talk about his improvement. The following week, you wouldn't know he'd played. The same goes for Paseka and co. Bullemor should be moved into the prop rotation next season. We need to stop blooding big, slow forwards and start investing our junior dollars in athletic and mobile forwards.

 

[Tomay]

Edge defence, ruck control and speed/mobility in the forwards.

Probably though the biggest thing is a few too many flashy players and not enough who are willing to dig in when the going is tough. They're fine when we are on top and scoring but aren't able to maintain concentration and don't like defending multiple sets or grinding out tough meters.

 

[Frogz]

Who have we bought for 2023????