Siebold Tactics

[ElectricEagle]

Not having a shot at all here. Maybe there's some sense to the following, but I'm honestly a little puzzled by some of the tactics which seem to be present within our playstyle right now. Can someone explain them?

1. Turbo always seems to cart the ball up for a hit up on tackle 4. He gets a quick play the ball which is good, but I could get a forward to do this. In doing this he takes himself out of any last tackle plays. He can't chase any kicks either.
2. We have one of the fastest right side wing combos in the game between Koula and Saab. But both never get any ball in open space. More often than not Koula receives the ball in heavy traffic and ends up taking a hit up. Why doesn't the ball get out to them. Every other attacking team with speed can do so. What are we doing, or not doing here?
3. DCE kicks bombs from just inside the opponents half which he seems to aim for the 10 - 15 metre line. The defence ends up catching on full and tackle 1 starts at the 30 metre line. Why aren't we aiming for the corners and trying to trap them in goal or have them start in own 20?

Is Siebold trying to be a little tactical for his own good here?

 

[Chunkytuna]

I agree with your lines of questioning. Especially on point 2. We used to get Saab (and Koula to a lesser extent) way more early ball - even from our own half. Saab is the fastest guy in the comp - if not in the top three - so let's give the guy a chance to show the speed. He'll burn guys on the outside.

 

[47MVEagle]

Yeah #2 is frustrating - we have a glut of riches on our right hand edge (Olakau’atu, Koula & Saab) but we barely seem to use them.

I don’t believe it’s solely because DCE crowds them when he runs across, because we see him pass to Olakau’atu.

I don’t believe it’s solely because Olakau’atu always seems to catch DCE’s passes flat-footed.

I don’t know if it’s a result of a coaching plan or the players not following a plan, but it’s strange.

Similarly, we’ve rarely seen Garrick in open space this season & he too has pace to burn.

Is it because we’re not winning the middle & the defence is in our faces by the time the ball reaches our edges?

 

[Will on the hill]

It's very hard to judge tactics when we are failing at basics. No coach/team can shine if errors and missed tackles constantly disrupt momentum. Our focus needs to be on doing the simple things well. Achieve consistency in the basics then we can start to incorporate some higher level strategy.

 

[ElectricEagle]

It's very hard to judge tactics when we are failing at basics. No coach/team can shine if errors and missed tackles constantly disrupt momentum. Our focus needs to be on doing the simple things well. Achieve consistency in the basics then we can start to incorporate some higher level strategy.

I agree in principle. But the same tactical decisions seem to happen over and over from game to game, which is why I wonder if they are deliberate tactical decisions implemented prior to the game.

 

[Rafferty]

I agree with your lines of questioning. Especially on point 2. We used to get Saab (and Koula to a lesser extent) way more early ball - even from our own half. Saab is the fastest guy in the comp - if not in the top three - so let's give the guy a chance to show the speed. He'll burn guys on the outside.

Saab will need to get the ball while running, his acceleration off the mark is frustrating for such a speed merchant, he really needs to work on getting out of the blocks, but then again when your not getting much ball or going looking for it, perhaps we need him to go looking for more ball and or roam infield occasionally, his also wasted on the high ball and or down town chases.

 

[Marto1970]

Yeah #2 is frustrating - we have a glut of riches on our right hand edge (Olakau’atu, Koula & Saab) but we barely seem to use them.

I don’t believe it’s solely because DCE crowds them when he runs across, because we see him pass to Olakau’atu.

I don’t believe it’s solely because Olakau’atu always seems to catch DCE’s passes flat-footed.

I don’t know if it’s a result of a coaching plan or the players not following a plan, but it’s strange.

Similarly, we’ve rarely seen Garrick in open space this season & he too has pace to burn.

Is it because we’re not winning the middle & the defence is in our faces by the time the ball reaches our edges?

The old saying, you have to earn the right to go wide ,we don't put any pressure on the middle defence ( Paseka is the only one who can break through a set defensive line)

 

[Will on the hill]

Not having a shot at all here. Maybe there's some sense to the following, but I'm honestly a little puzzled by some of the tactics which seem to be present within our playstyle right now. Can someone explain them?

1. Turbo always seems to cart the ball up for a hit up on tackle 4. He gets a quick play the ball which is good, but I could get a forward to do this. In doing this he takes himself out of any last tackle plays. He can't chase any kicks either.
2. We have one of the fastest right side wing combos in the game between Koula and Saab. But both never get any ball in open space. More often than not Koula receives the ball in heavy traffic and ends up taking a hit up. Why doesn't the ball get out to them. Every other attacking team with speed can do so. What are we doing, or not doing here?
3. DCE kicks bombs from just inside the opponents half which he seems to aim for the 10 - 15 metre line. The defence ends up catching on full and tackle 1 starts at the 30 metre line. Why aren't we aiming for the corners and trying to trap them in goal or have them start in own 20?

Is Siebold trying to be a little tactical for his own good here?

1. Turbo is struggling to add value in the areas he normally does so he is defaulting to the tough stuff, has been exacerbated with Jake out.

2. We aren't breaking down defences so they easily mark up on our edges. We need to be more dominant in the middle so our edges can shine. This is more down effort than tactics.

3. Agree DCE is missing the mark with his bombs, too shallow and not close enough to the sideline. It's a common tactic, referred to as a cage kick, they're meant to come down in a 10x10m 'cage' in the corner. DCE is consistently dropping them short.

 

[Will on the hill]

I agree in principle. But the same tactical decisions seem to happen over and over from game to game, which is why I wonder if they are deliberate tactical decisions implemented prior to the game.

I see a lot of accidents happening in our game at the moment, things just aren't happening the way we train them. Definitely a concern but I don't think it's deliberate.

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

It's very hard to judge tactics when we are failing at basics. No coach/team can shine if errors and missed tackles constantly disrupt momentum. Our focus needs to be on doing the simple things well. Achieve consistency in the basics then we can start to incorporate some higher level strategy.

Could not agree more. There's no point thinking about advanced plays and the other niceties of rugby league strategy when we can't even hold onto the f**cking ball, or get players to get to marker (and to pay attention once there), or count numbers in defence, or etc, etc, etc…

Seriously, we won't start beating other teams until we stop beating ourselves. Tactic one: Hold onto the ball. Tactic two: Run hard. Tactic three: Tackle hard. Tactic four: See tactic one.

 

[Jonduke]

Everytime we get a scum (which isn't that often) inside our half and the opposition fullback is in the line of defense I have a dream that DCE kicks the crap out of the ball and its now bouncing up near their 20 metre line and the games fastest player is easily the 1st to get there and if he isn't, they have only 2 or 3 backs trying to make yards after the big chase and we man up the D.. people on the hill trying to stand up fast , oh somethings on, happening!!!!!!!

Can we please put the game plan down for 60 seconds and try something, I take just about anything, Hello, Johnny Gibbs, Phil Blake, Paul Shaw, chip over the top, gone but not forgotten.

At least we have, for a fleeting moment, dictated the play, at best Saab scores, or is it Koula?

 

[Jonduke]

Something different Part 2 : Walker bros x 2 coaching outside the box, comes with optional half back, low mileage , tending towards speed bump , means well, creational line drop out creator, excellent lost puppy face.?

 

[Rosko]

1. Coaches brain dead (Seibold) and looking for next gig (Flanagan).
2. DCE. And no structure in attack (Flanagan).
3. DCE. And no alternative kicker.

 

[Seagles68]

Yeah, the Turbo thing is very strange. Its become so predictable as well. It might have been ok early on but now theyre all just lining up ready to belt coz they know its coming.

Again, not giving the ball earlier too Koula is also strange. The ball does seem to die at Haumole alot. Coz theyre marking up on him more than before, he is struggling to get the ball on to Koula.

And DCEs kicks always seem to be rocks and diamonds.

 

[Highflier]

not sure why point 1 is the go to ,maybe to do with his rehab ?
I think over all apart from blatant errors i.e. Oshay the other week ,it all comes down to lack of room due to the forwards not being run onto the ball by the 9 ,there by creating space that means DCE etc doesn't have to crab across and that means there is room for the likes of Toula to move into space and break the oppositions line .

Its so important these days to get that run on and quick play the ball neither of which we get because we are flat footed getting the ball which results in a slow PTB once tackled. Then its rinse and repeat. As much as I like Croker we need to change that position up a bit with GT and even more use of Lawton ,who I thought did quite well when he came on. There was even a game where Weekes at 14 came on seemed to give us a little more thrust ( I cant remember which one )
Anyways good talking points, lets hope The Schu and Jake make a difference this weekend
Go Manly

 

[jbb/james]

Not having a shot at all here. Maybe there's some sense to the following, but I'm honestly a little puzzled by some of the tactics which seem to be present within our playstyle right now. Can someone explain them?

1. Turbo always seems to cart the ball up for a hit up on tackle 4. He gets a quick play the ball which is good, but I could get a forward to do this. In doing this he takes himself out of any last tackle plays. He can't chase any kicks either.
2. We have one of the fastest right side wing combos in the game between Koula and Saab. But both never get any ball in open space. More often than not Koula receives the ball in heavy traffic and ends up taking a hit up. Why doesn't the ball get out to them. Every other attacking team with speed can do so. What are we doing, or not doing here?
3. DCE kicks bombs from just inside the opponents half which he seems to aim for the 10 - 15 metre line. The defence ends up catching on full and tackle 1 starts at the 30 metre line. Why aren't we aiming for the corners and trying to trap them in goal or have them start in own 20?

Is Siebold trying to be a little tactical for his own good here?

1 . I think its about getting our kicker positioned better for attacking kicks more often. Tom was once the only real chase deep enough to contest. now we have none it seems. move the line.

2 oku and sirro
koula and suli same sides , same issues but koula is better skilled and defensively and oku is far stronger so it papers it over a bit. watching the tigers/warriors game from last year where foran was right he had oku looking like kikau. thats the data we have. but when DCE plays tigers, not same

3 his bombs and short kicks is death by 1000 cuts to ourselves. partly because of judgement, positioning and when he kicks a chip style bomb left to right he almost always hooks it off the boot. It must be a tactic but he never allows for the curl

 

[Under the Sticks]

Simples - we haven’t had a quality no. 6 playing much this year.

 

[Jerry1]

Crap couch who has no game plan except for after the fact that usually goes we have to be better in the first half (after we get pumped). We have some good players but sideboard gets nothing out of them. He has coached the spark & hope out of the side. Very disappointed in his tenure thus far.

 

[Ben]

Or the slow motion attacking predicable plays that are designed to bore the defence to sleep so we can stroll right past them and score a try. That one is definitely a work in progress.

 

[eaglebuzz]

I'm sure they practice things that aren't coming off in games.

DCE plays well behind a dominant pack but is a headless chook when our forwards are being dominated. I think we are missing Schuster a lot, but primarily we need to start winning the ruck and stop dropping the ball.

A lot of the rot is also starting with Croker, the guy dead set looks like he is in slow motion and our whole attack suffers for it.