Salary Cap

[HoldenV8]

Thats being pretty selective with the quote. My post is about attacking less and thinking more, as opposed to being required to play catch up at every opportunity .

1 player. 1 posession , 100 choices. Poor choice is owned
If a prop runs sideways , it isnt the other props fault because he is a plodder

At times he hasnt had to overplay his hand but does. It was a choice that had nothing to do with the hooker

Our kick chase is poor. I agree, but so are the constant mid field bombs that do nothing but hand ball over cheaply and without contest . The first job of the chase team is to be onside , but invariably they are being thrown dodgy late balls due to cherry running Out of options because he hasnt got a plan.

Taking the ball on the fly from the dummy half with the intention of kicking is basic kicking skills that allows the chase team to come with. Instead shielding behind the ruck he is any easy target and the chase team is flat footed and wondering what play is coming

This reluctance to copy the other 20 or so kickers in the comp is staggering and a big part of why we score very little of kicks, getting repeat sets and applying pressure. This momentum building move also adds massive metres to everyones kick and the extra time , vision and space helps find the grass instead of the player. Until this basic skill is adopted much of the other hoo haa is invalid

This tactic does open the player up to being tackled hard and this seems the major deterrent

If its tried and doesnt work, get back to me then , but its one of the reasons foran is being sought out. His understanding that both passing and kicking at the line or through it , has a much greater affect on the outcomes of footy games than looking for hole runners all night

Sorry he's not perfect like you expect. I guess despite his salary that he is only human after all.

But damn, I'd hate to see how bad this team would have been without him this year. You think its been bad? Imagine if Daly had been injured early in the season and either Lachlan Croker or Cade Cust had been the halfback for the majority of the year.....if you think either of them would have been better, think again. In fact you substituted DCE for Cleary, Reynolds, Moses, Keary, Munster or Pearce, with the way our team has been this year with a 3rd rate backline for the past 3-4 months, the results would have been no better.

 

[hozza]

In all reality, because of injuries the only constants in our spine in 2020 have been DCE and ... Danny Levi. And Levi went so well this year he's been told he won't be re-signed even though we're not likely to see Fainu back on the park until mid-2021 at best.

For around 2/3's of this season, DCE has been virtually our ONLY attacking player who was doing anything. Is it any wonder we dropped from 4th or 5th down to 11th??

Yet apparently he's the problem according to some..... He's not good enough, not a good enough captain and of course, his salary which was the clubs fault and not his, is holding us back.

Mate every year there is a different excuse. Injuries, other players, coaches. We’ve had 14 clear outs, different coaches.

The one constant has been DCE. Like I said, 5 yrs and counting. No premiership means total failure.
Everyone can come up with as many excuses as you can muster. I’m not buying what your selling..

Tic tok , 3yrs to go..

 

[Simonmyers11]

Mate every year there is a different excuse. Injuries, other players, coaches. We’ve had 14 clear outs, different coaches.

The one constant has been DCE. Like I said, 5 yrs and counting. No premiership means total failure.
Everyone can come up with as many excuses as you can muster. I’m not buying what your selling..

Tic tok , 3yrs to go..

Your Kidding right? So it sounds like what your saying is it's going to be up to DCE to win us the next premiership regardless of the players he has in his side or injuries. Can you honestly tell me over the past 5 years a Manly side that has been a genuine premiership contender? Looking at the Melbourne and Roosters sides over the past few years they have been stacked, probably unfairly I might add. Not just one or two good players.

How about the Manly sides we won premierships in 2008, 2011 and GF in 2013. We had a team choc full of talent. Stewart brothers, Lyon, Matai, Ballin, Foran, DCE, Choc, King, Kite etc Opposition supporters use to think we were rotting the cap! We have not had a decent side for years except last year, but we're decimated with injury right before the finals. To win a premiership you need so much to go right. Full strength side at the right time of year, luck with injuries, some luck with the 50-50 refs calls, and a team playing with a good culture and desire to win. Hopefully we can keep building towards this, made a big step forward last year but after starting season 2020 so promising been a pretty tough old year to follow Manly. Still think with DCE at 7 and a healthy squad and promising juniors coming through our time is coming

 

[hozza]

Your Kidding right? So it sounds like what your saying is it's going to be up to DCE to win us the next premiership regardless of the players he has in his side or injuries. Can you honestly tell me over the past 5 years a Manly side that has been a genuine premiership contender? Looking at the Melbourne and Roosters sides over the past few years they have been stacked, probably unfairly I might add. Not just one or two good players.

How about the Manly sides we won premierships in 2008, 2011 and GF in 2013. We had a team choc full of talent. Stewart brothers, Lyon, Matai, Ballin, Foran, DCE, Choc, King, Kite etc Opposition supporters use to think we were rotting the cap! We have not had a decent side for years except last year, but we're decimated with injury right before the finals. To win a premiership you need so much to go right. Full strength side at the right time of year, luck with injuries, some luck with the 50-50 refs calls, and a team playing with a good culture and desire to win. Hopefully we can keep building towards this, made a big step forward last year but after starting season do promising been a pretty tough old year to follow Manly. Still think with DCE at 7 and a healthy squad and promising juniors coming through our time s coming

Yep and every single one of those legends took UNDERS to stay together, not way way way overs.
Back then we had a culture of team first, now it’s player first. And it all starts with the captain to show a good example, Daly has consistently showed it Daly first, team- day light second.

Nice to see your already giving excuses for him down the road....

 

[40 years an eagle]

Yep and every single one of those legends took UNDERS to stay together, not way way way overs.
Back then we had a culture of team first, now it’s player first. And it all starts with the captain to show a good example

Correct. The only way we fielded that champion team was by many guys taking unders for the good of the team.
With DCE and Jake on big overs and Tom on 1.1M I can't see how we could possibly field a team capable of dominating unless we have some HUGE cash injections.

 

[HoldenV8]

Mate every year there is a different excuse. Injuries, other players, coaches. We’ve had 14 clear outs, different coaches.

The one constant has been DCE. Like I said, 5 yrs and counting. No premiership means total failure.
Everyone can come up with as many excuses as you can muster. I’m not buying what your selling..

Tic tok , 3yrs to go..

Like I said in another thread a couple of weeks ago ... the like options in these forums needs a rolling eyes.

Seriously mate. What part of "he can't do it on his own" are you failing to understand? No player no matter who they are, how good they are or how much they get paid can do it on their own. They need quality and stability around them to get the job done. Put simply we have not had that in the last 5 years.

Oh, and as for no premierships ... please, go and watch a replay of the 2011 NRL Grand Final.

 

[hozza]

Like I said in another thread a couple of weeks ago ... the like options in these forums needs a rolling eyes.

Seriously mate. What part of "he can't do it on his own" are you failing to understand? No player no matter who they are, how good they are or how much they get paid can do it on their own. They need quality and stability around them to get the job done. Put simply we have not had that in the last 5 years.

Oh, and as for no premierships ... please, go and watch a replay of the 2011 NRL Grand Final.

And what part of we can’t afford good players do you not understand? There is a little thing called a salary cap, in which D$E takes over 10% of...
On top of that he fails miserably in most departments, hence the enormous amount of criticism that goes his way..

Not to quick on the uptake are you little buddy.
Annnndddddd go have a look at the whole 2011 season mate. Team of legends took us there.

 

[40 years an eagle]

Seriously mate. What part of "he can't do it on his own" are you failing to understand? No player no matter who they are, how good they are or how much they get paid can do it on their own. They need quality and stability around them to get the job done. Put simply we have not had that in the last 5 years.

Oh, and as for no premierships ... please, go and watch a replay of the 2011 NRL Grand Final.

You know I appreciate most of what you usually say but the "DCE can't do it on his own" thing that is widely touted here is a catch 22 situation. Obviously he can't but one of the main reasons he has to is because he takes up so much of our available monies that we can't afford support he needs.
The "unders brothers" now significantly contribute to that problem as well. Is Schuster going to be a 800k man in 2 years as well?

How on earth can we compete with the likes of the Rorters who have a $9M top 17 when we have a $10M top 30 and 3 players take up 30+% of it?

We competed with our Lyon, Stewarts, Matai, Foran, Watmough, Kite etc team because the players AND club understood that the ONLY WAY TO COMPETE was to share the money wisely through a squad.
We can blame injuries, cap penalties etc but the truth is we will not compete, let alone dominate without far more monies than we currently can gather AND spend it wisely.

Injuries are a problem to US because we don't have enough money for back-up players that are good enough for NRL, hell we don't even have enough money for NRL standard FG'ers in several positions.

It can't possibly work the way we are so something needs to change or we will be in NRL success wilderness until it does.

 

[Simonmyers11]

Yep and every single one of those legends took UNDERS to stay together, not way way way overs.
Back then we had a culture of team first, now it’s player first. And it all starts with the captain to show a good example, Daly has consistently showed it Daly first, team- day light second.

Nice to see your already giving excuses for him down the road....

He bleeds Manly!. He wanted to stay for 800k, they told him to look elsewhere!! My god, when are people going to get that. I agree, if his contract was up today, he would have to take a pay cut for sure. Also, things were different back then, a contract was a contract and 500k was huge. These days things have gotten stupid with salary and the club is to blame for miss managing the cap, not DCE. Not an excuse, just fact. So if that is all you got then come up with something better, he wanted to stay FOR LESS

 

[KNUCKLES]

He bleeds Manly!. He wanted to stay for 800k, they told him to look elsewhere!! My god, when are people going to get that. I agree, if his contract was up today, he would have to take a pay cut for sure. Also, things were different back then, a contract was a contract and 500k was huge. These days things have gotten stupid with salary and the club is to blame for miss managing the cap, not DCE. Not an excuse, just fact. So if that is all you got then come up with something better, he wanted to stay FOR LESS

The DCE backflip and his lifetime deal changed the market forever. DCE is an innovator lol... players are being overpaid everywhere now

 

[Deleted member 26876]

I don't really like the argument that dce doesn't have the support of a good 5/8 or 9. A big part of the reason he can't have these players next to him is because his contract restricts our options to cheap, average players and occasionally old 5/8's that are happy to settle on relatively low contracts (eg Green, who later jumped ship at the first opportunity to secure a bigger contract). Dce signed a contract that suggested he could do it all on his own. What we later have come to find out is that unlike players such as Cronk, dce isn't effective when he has a fill in style 5/8 next to him (even when we have a quality hooker his organisation is clumsy and relies on broken down play from offloads).

Anywho, no point dwelling on it. Dce is here to stay so hopefully schuster and foran save his career (and more importantly, manly)

 

[Jacinta Martin]

Not sure if this is the right place but.
I'm not too sure why everyone gets so excited about contracts and who gets one. Time and time again, it get shown that they actually mean nothing.
Players talk about loyalty, well maybe there are some that are. Players saying they want to stay and they love the place, well maybe no one else wanted or offered them enough.
Yes it's great a players signs or extends but it means nothing unless they actually stay till the end, and most times they only do because they can't get more or go anywhere else. Yes Manly have quiet a few of those.
Everyone is happy and giving the thumbs up that someone has put it out there that Paseka will extend and that's really great for the club and him if true and he has definately come good over the past 6-8 weeks. But he's just one small example of how fickle a contract can be. He stated in the press just recently that he was going to NFL and Covid halted his plans. He had a contract here till the end of 2021 and his contract wasn't what stopped him.
So until all players actually sign and play their hearts out for the duration of their contracts I don't get too worked up about who gets signed and for how long. I just enjoy who is still available and on the field each week, giving their all regardless of whether they are good enough or not. They are there and wearing the jersey.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I don't really like the argument that dce doesn't have the support of a good 5/8 or 9. A big part of the reason he can't have these players next to him is because his contract restricts our options to cheap, average players and occasionally old 5/8's that are happy to settle on relatively low contracts (eg Green, who later jumped ship at the first opportunity to secure a bigger contract). Dce signed a contract that suggested he could do it all on his own. What we later have come to find out is that unlike players such as Cronk, dce isn't effective when he has a fill in style 5/8 next to him (even when we have a quality hooker his organisation is clumsy and relies on broken down play from offloads).

Anywho, no point dwelling on it. Dce is here to stay so hopefully schuster and foran save his career (and more importantly, manly)

You’re back young Harry , good !!

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

What we later have come to find out is that unlike players such as Cronk

Hilarious! Can you provide examples of Cronk 'doing it on his own'? There are probably one or two, but he has been blessed more than any other player in history by always being surrounded by stacks of talent. Notably C Smith, and in his final years, the Chooks including such no-names as Luke Keary.
Better argument than that is required!

(Edit - not that I think DCE is an immortal or even as good as Cronk, but just for the sake of balanced discussion) 🙂

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Hilarious! Can you provide examples of Cronk 'doing it on his own'? There are probably one or two, but he has been blessed more than any other player in history by always being surrounded by stacks of talent. Notably C Smith, and in his final years, the Chooks including such no-names as Luke Keary.
Better argument than that is required!

(Edit - not that I think DCE is an immortal or even as good as Cronk, but just for the sake of balanced discussion) 🙂

Yeah that was a bad example, thurston/James Maloney wouldve been better. But what I mean is that even when dce has a strong hooker and fullback, he still seems very clunky when working with 'fill-in' styled 5/8's (Cust, Croker, Walker). If I were to persist with Cronk as an example, it doesn't really matter who filled in at 5/8 (eg. Ryley Jacks), Cronk played a dominant, controlling role. At the strorm the 5/8 didn't have to be a star and seemed to change each year because they were expendable next to a quality half.

Not that I like Cronk (although I am thankful he stopped the storm winning back to back in 2018!), but dce isn't the type of half that can make the 5/8 role expendable, hence why his contract is very limiting for manly. I feel it's a little bit the other way around, where a poor 5/8 makes dce expendable.

 

[Simonmyers11]

Hilarious! Can you provide examples of Cronk 'doing it on his own'? There are probably one or two, but he has been blessed more than any other player in history by always being surrounded by stacks of talent. Notably C Smith, and in his final years, the Chooks including such no-names as Luke Keary.
Better argument than that is required!

(Edit - not that I think DCE is an immortal or even as good as Cronk, but just for the sake of balanced discussion) 🙂

Yep, suggesting cronk does it himself... yeah right. At Melbourne he had slater, smith, munster and a star studded pack. At Roosters he had keary, teddy and an unbelievable pack.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Yep, suggesting cronk does it himself... yeah right. At Melbourne he had slater, smith, munster and a star studded pack. At Roosters he had keary, teddy and an unbelievable pack.

He just pulled the strings , they were all firing the arrows

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Yep, suggesting cronk does it himself... yeah right. At Melbourne he had slater, smith, munster and a star studded pack. At Roosters he had keary, teddy and an unbelievable pack.

Yeah, not the best example! However seeing as we are trying to replicate their strategy of investing in a select few playmakers to build the club around I think it shows we might not have the right player at the centre of it.

Excited for dce to throw an egg on my face against the warriors!

 

[Simonmyers11]

Yeah, not the best example! However seeing as we are trying to replicate their strategy of investing in a select few playmakers to build the club around I think it shows we might not have the right player at the centre of it.

Excited for dce to throw an egg on my face against the warriors!

How about this, if next year we some how manage to get through a season without all our stars injured and we have Tom, DCE, Walker, Faniu, Shuster, foran, Marty, Siro etc playing and DCE cannot deliver than he has NO EXCUSES! From what i saw last year when we did field a full strength side (rarely) we looked pretty good. Example was the game against Parra at home. Unstoppable. That's what we need to do consistently to be contenders (does help with your best players on the park) I just dont want to see crocker go around again.

Anyway, if he cannot perform with manlys full strength Roster i will be the first to say he needs to change, but quietly confident he will prove a lot of doubters wrong

 

[The Who]

One thing DCE possesses that most of our players don't is the ability to remain on the field. I don't think he's missed a match this season.
How angry would the anti-DCE crowd be if he played as infrequently as Turbo or Walker?