Penrith are not bigger, faster, stronger ...

[Scorpio]

They are just a much better coached and drilled football team ... they all know what they are expected to do ... and all do it with confidence and enthusiasm ...

It starts with attitude and belief ... and is instilled in sweat, hard work, fitness and drills ..

Their plan is simple ... 1) run hard, run straight, win the ruck, quick play the ball .. repeat .. 2) Tackle hard, win the ruck ..

Penrith by player are not bigger, faster or better .... they are just really well coached ...

We are a rabble by comparison ..

But it can't be that simple, can it? If it was, the Roosters and Storm and other (demonstrably) extremely well-resourced clubs would be doing the same thing. Penrith have lost only 11 games in the last 3 years, that's pretty much at the same level of our mid-1990s squad.

Ivan Cleary had a win/loss record of 47% over 295 games before he started at the Panthers in his second stint, now over the past 4 years has won 76% of matches. The results speak for themself but I'm not sure it's supreme coaching alone that is doing the job for them.

 

[Rocky]

The narrative about Des was that he is/was the mad professor. A workaholic that tried new things and didn't miss a beat.

But we have seen through his tactics, team selections and recruitment that he hasn't embraced what works in today's game. @Woodsie described the blueprint in his OP. But Des has been caught with his pants down.

I wonder why? Short term pressures? Living in the past and being dogmatic about it?

 

[Woodsie]

But it can't be that simple, can it? If it was, the Roosters and Storm and other (demonstrably) extremely well-resourced clubs would be doing the same thing. Penrith have lost only 11 games in the last 3 years, that's pretty much at the same level of our mid-1990s squad.

Ivan Cleary had a win/loss record of 47% over 295 games before he started at the Panthers in his second stint, now over the past 4 years has won 76% of matches. The results speak for themself but I'm not sure it's supreme coaching alone that is doing the job for them.

What you say is 100% correct if the discussion was about what are the factors that build a good squad ...

But regardless of how penrith got to where they are ... the 30 players they have still required coaching and drilling ... Cleary has done that to perfection..

 

[mave]

That is part of the package but I think it begins with the rushing gang-style defence. Their forwards don't wait for an attacker they rush at them in numbers, and if you spin the ball wider they follow out so no-one is ever left posted (or very rarely).
This means your kicker is kicking on the back foot and that is when their strong backs come into it.

It's chicken and egg, I guess....and I suppose if the forwards aren't trudging back to the 20m line after every opposition kick, it leaves them fresher to attack with their defence.

But watching the GF last night, Parra were in the game for exactly 3 sets, after that, they started every set closer and closer to their own tryline....and it compounded from there.

 

[mave]

The narrative about Des was that he is/was the mad professor. A workaholic that tried new things and didn't miss a beat.

But we have seen through his tactics, team selections and recruitment that he hasn't embraced what works in today's game. @Woodsie described the blueprint in his OP. But Des has been caught with his pants down.

I wonder why? Short term pressures? Living in the past and being dogmatic about it?

Short term KPIs is my assumption......and that comes down to Penn....yet again.

 

[robbiea]

Yep ,agree @Woodsie .
Every guy on that team knows his job and sticks to his script.
Well coached team that plays as a whole and each guy is there to cover for the next.
Penrith play as a whole team ,we play as individuals.
It's all about the GEL.
Miles apart we are.

 

[frank stokes]

Do you think Ivan could achieve similar results with the tigers?

Dunno but they sure did not improve when he left...

 

[danny-boy]

They’re not bigger, but they’re definitely faster and stronger. There’s nothing fancy about them. If a team can match their speed and physical intensity for 80 minutes they’ll have a good chance at beating them in an arm wrestle. It’s a tough task.

 

[frank stokes]

What you say is 100% correct if the discussion was about what are the factors that build a good squad ...

But regardless of how penrith got to where they are ... the 30 players they have still required coaching and drilling ... Cleary has done that to perfection..

I agree Ivan is great... he got the warriors to a GF ffs... say no more...

But I reckon that this Riff squad has been together so long that they have an elevated sense of trust and commitment to each other... they never quit because they are addicted to winning and they just consistently maintain pressure, they are constantly pulling each other off the tackle before a penalty/6again is given and trust each other to make the 1-on-1 or to pop the offload or to put the grubber through if they make the run...
They are a bloody good unit to watch and last night was next level - particularly in defence...

 

[mave]

And to answer the OP.
Penrith are not bigger, faster, or stronger......


But they are most definitely fitter.
And in an up tempo game, that is King.

 

[Woodsie]

And to answer the OP.
Penrith are not bigger, faster, or stronger......


But they are most definitely fitter.
And in an up tempo game, that is King.

And ... that gets back to coaching ..

 

[Rafferty]

But they are way fitter, play for each other and far more committed than any of the other sides in the comp, its almost embarrassing just how superior they are to us in every facet of the code.

 

[mickqld]

Every time Penrith recieve a deep kick, not one of their forwards touch the ball until tackle 5,if at all.

Their back 3/5 eat up the early rucks, and make quality metres doing it.

Everything for the Panthers starts with the back 3/5.

They are extraordinarily well drilled, and fit as fk

Surely Tom, Garrick, Saab, Tuipolutu are more than capable of filling an exact same roll. Put some kgs on Saab then our sets should start off the same high intensity. No excuses.

 

[NREagle]

Penrith are a team that others should aspire to be. I don't mean necessarily their style of play, but the way they go about it. They take pride in the job they do and in the jersey they wear. They are extremely fit. They know if someone is out (injured etc) it will not weaken the team as their replacements are ready to step up. It was obvious during the finals they were focused on the big picture (look at the difference in the celebrations with the eels and the Panthers in the semis) with the GF the only one that mattered.
There is such a belief in that team (yes,winning helps).
It is good coaching. And surrounding yourself with the right support to do that job properly.
It is also helps however that such a big chunk of their team have played together for so long. They know each other's games so well and each player can build on their own game knowing what they player next to you can do.
Manly won't ever get there unless we have stability in our spine, players that trust each other's game and work bloody hard to better their own each week, want to play for Manly (not looking for the next bigger better deal), and a coach that surrounds himself with the right support (and uses it).

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

They are just a much better coached and drilled football team ... they all know what they are expected to do ... and all do it with confidence and enthusiasm ...

It starts with attitude and belief ... and is instilled in sweat, hard work, fitness and drills ..

Their plan is simple ... 1) run hard, run straight, win the ruck, quick play the ball .. repeat .. 2) Tackle hard, win the ruck ..

Penrith by player are not bigger, faster or better .... they are just really well coached ...

We are a rabble by comparison ..

Oh please....

Woodys world...

Plan A.... bash the coach. Plan B.... nada....

 

[QueefRichards]

I agree Ivan is great... he got the warriors to a GF ffs... say no more...

Eh, Stuart got Canberra to a grand final and noones arguing that he's a great coach.

The narrative about Des was that he is/was the mad professor. A workaholic that tried new things and didn't miss a beat.

But we have seen through his tactics, team selections and recruitment that he hasn't embraced what works in today's game. @Woodsie described the blueprint in his OP. But Des has been caught with his pants down.

I wonder why? Short term pressures? Living in the past and being dogmatic about it?

Team selections are okay but giving so much time for underperforming incumbents to prove themselves before he cuts them loose while other talents wait on the extended squad doesn't work as well when we don't have an upward trajectory + conditioning isnt bearing fruit. Who's going to stick around for that when they look at players like Suli who get more game time and look much fitter after they leave.

I've read multiple times that Lyon and Gifty did their fair share of creating attacking shapes in training.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Gee there are some Des disciples on this forum. I admire Des for his achievements but l live in the present and at present we are in serious trouble being left far behind the game and and the other teams.

Our problems are numerous but the biggest issues that affect the playing squad that I can see are Des, DEC and the absence of a solid structure and system. Heads up football is simply the icing on the cake the substance is in the systems, composure and being clinical and methodical. When you have a sound stable system the players believe in it and embrace it. Penrith is proof of that and often during interviews players and coach talk of their belief in the systems.

It looks like Des has become distracted with club politics and the friction with those that have invested years in developing players is absurd and counter productive. I have said many times DES needs to rein in DCE and getting him playing patient methodical football not the low percentage glory stuff and kicking away possession early in the tackle count. From the outside it looks like the players have absolutely no idea what he is going to do at times and they don't believe in what our team game is built around. DCE excels in origin because frankly he is not Queensland's go to man it is usually Munster. Yes DCE plays behind a dominant pack but his game in origin is focussed on giving quick service to those outside of him, backing up the middle and his long kicking game late in the tackle count. That's what we need and a good systems of play.

 

[manlyfan76]

Yep ,agree @Woodsie .
Every guy on that team knows his job and sticks to his script.
Well coached team that plays as a whole and each guy is there to cover for the next.
Penrith play as a whole team ,we play as individuals.
It's all about the GEL.
Miles apart we are.

Even bigger than this is the whole club does everything the same. You could plug and play and grade player into another and it works.

 

[Woodsie]

Oh please....

Woodys world...

Plan A.... bash the coach. Plan B.... nada....

Well, I was going to blame the janitor for our poor coaching ... but said to myself, "bugger it, you've got a pair Woodsie" ... and decided to blame the Coach instead ...

 

[manlyfan76]

What is Manly's 5 year plan?

Just joking.