Penrith are not bigger, faster, stronger ...

[Woodsie]

They are just a much better coached and drilled football team ... they all know what they are expected to do ... and all do it with confidence and enthusiasm ...

It starts with attitude and belief ... and is instilled in sweat, hard work, fitness and drills ..

Their plan is simple ... 1) run hard, run straight, win the ruck, quick play the ball .. repeat .. 2) Tackle hard, win the ruck ..

Penrith by player are not bigger, faster or better .... they are just really well coached ...

We are a rabble by comparison ..

 

[Red Pill]

They are just a much better coached and drilled football team ... they all know what they are expected to do ... and all do it with confidence and enthusiasm ...

It starts with attitude and belief ... and is instilled in sweat, hard work, fitness and drills ..

Their plan is simple ... 1) run hard, run straight, win the ruck, quick play the ball .. repeat .. 2) Tackle hard, win the ruck ..

Penrith by player are not bigger, faster or better .... they are just really well coached ...

We are a rabble by comparison ..

Do you think Ivan could achieve similar results with the tigers?

 

[Woodsie]

Do you think Ivan could achieve similar results with the tigers?

Don't know ... but as a good coach he would have more chance than most ...

 

[Pete W]

Interestingly, Bullemor has actually been tracked as the fasted recorded forward in the NRL. Paseka (and to a lesser extent Aloiai) isn't too much slower than any other decent middle either. Tuitavake has a little toe too

(Although we can all see that poor Jake is a lot slower than Yeo (and pretty much most 13s these days), and Keppie, Sipley not that quick.)

Despite this, spot on 100% it's the way Panthers are coached at the end of the day. Their play the ball speed is unbelievable, and that is what gets them on top of their opposition every week. That has nothing to do with running speed. Their set plays are done deep, so space offers them the ability to hit their individual top speeds, and even when hit ups and/or broken play ensues, runners and options everywhere. In comparison, we do the opposite of all the above. So lame. Also defensively, Manly only commit two in the tackle so another coaching flaw that leads to our forwards being dominated in the ruck.

 

[Red Pill]

Don't know ... but as a good coach he would have more chance than most ...

Fair enough I think Des is still a good coach.

 

[Nordburg]

Part of the problem for Manly if you want them to play in a similar regimented way to the Panthers,is DCE.Not a criticism but he doesn’t play a methodical type of game like Cleary,he’s more off the cuff,for better or worse

 

[Technical Coach]

They are just a much better coached and drilled football team ... they all know what they are expected to do ... and all do it with confidence and enthusiasm ...

It starts with attitude and belief ... and is instilled in sweat, hard work, fitness and drills ..

Their plan is simple ... 1) run hard, run straight, win the ruck, quick play the ball .. repeat .. 2) Tackle hard, win the ruck ..

Penrith by player are not bigger, faster or better .... they are just really well coached ...

We are a rabble by comparison ..

They are more fit and able to deliver high intensity with sustained power that either exhausts teams due to the tempo,suffocates teams into mistakes and more often than not win field position from defence and go forward along with a great kicking game from Cleary.

Parra has too many players that have the old school semi professional belly, same with Manly, we can't sustain the intensity or tempo of the modern game or play in a fast direct effective manner for long enough periods to be a danger.

It is one of the reasons why teams like Melbourne,Roosters,Penrith have been successful, Cowboys trying to instill that same level of prolonged intensity and effort also.

Yes they are well coached and drilled-----you can coach and drill all teams but to have the ability to apply it in the game at effective speed and intensity over prolonged periods separates the great teams and the ones just making up the numbers.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Do you think Ivan could achieve similar results with the tigers?

Don't know ... but as a good coach he would have more chance than most ...

There's so much more going on than just the coach. Chuck Ivan in at Manly after Toovey or Barrett and I imagine it wouldn't be too different from where we are now. The Tigers will be a shambles regardless of who coaches the team...unless that coach can fix everything else that's wrong at the club. Which IMO is not their job.

The Panthers have spent years building the club in so many areas - not just the first team's roster. They won Jersey Flegg, SG Ball, NSW Cup and the state championship. They're not just chasing the best players, they are creating the best teams with what they have.
They invest in their players and look after them:

Panthers reveal the price of success

Penrith Panthers have revealed the price of success – $17 million the club spends on football teams each year.

www.penrithpanthers.com.au

They've lobbied governments to get money, they do plenty of work to help their community and fans and they built an actual plan on how they would build it all.

We have; shut down community services, whinged about a lack of government money and council support (even after seeing progress), outsourced NSW cup to Blacktown and created a playing group that appears fractured and focused on the individual....and then sits back and watches as the inevitable (& metaphorical) bus slowly rolls over them (Walker, Manase, Rainbow 7 etc.)....and then, after all that, we say it was coaches fault and think new one will fix it.

*** or maybe we will just find out that they had a very advanced and successful doping culture in 5 years ;p

 

[manlyfan76]

Bigger hearts
Faster execution
Stronger systems

Plainly obvious to me.

 

[Woodsie]

There's so much more going on than just the coach. Chuck Ivan in at Manly after Toovey or Barrett and I imagine it wouldn't be too different from where we are now. The Tigers will be a shambles regardless of who coaches the team...unless that coach can fix everything else that's wrong at the club. Which IMO is not their job.

The Panthers have spent years building the club in so many areas - not just the first team's roster. They won Jersey Flegg, SG Ball, NSW Cup and the state championship. They're not just chasing the best players, they are creating the best teams with what they have.
They invest in their players and look after them:

Panthers reveal the price of success

Penrith Panthers have revealed the price of success – $17 million the club spends on football teams each year.

www.penrithpanthers.com.au

They've lobbied governments to get money, they do plenty of work to help their community and fans and they built an actual plan on how they would build it all.

We have; shut down community services, whinged about a lack of government money and council support (even after seeing progress), outsourced NSW cup to Blacktown and created a playing group that appears fractured and focused on the individual....and then sits back and watches as the inevitable (& metaphorical) bus slowly rolls over them (Walker, Manase, Rainbow 7 etc.)....and then, after all that, we say it was coaches fault and think new one will fix it.

*** or maybe we will just find out that they had a very advanced and successful doping culture in 5 years ;p

Thanks ... but what I said was ... penrith are a really well coached football team ...

 

[MuzztheEagle]

I know you did (in your original post ) but I was responding to the exchange with RP. And, as well coached as they are, I think it's bigger than that. It's not just that Ivan gave them the right instructions and training.

 

[Wombat64]

They are just a much better coached and drilled football team ... they all know what they are expected to do ... and all do it with confidence and enthusiasm ...

It starts with attitude and belief ... and is instilled in sweat, hard work, fitness and drills ..

Their plan is simple ... 1) run hard, run straight, win the ruck, quick play the ball .. repeat .. 2) Tackle hard, win the ruck ..

Penrith by player are not bigger, faster or better .... they are just really well coached ...

We are a rabble by comparison ..

Agree but comparing us to a rabble is unkind to a rabble.

 

[Woodsie]

@MuzztheEagle .. sorry if I sounded flippant ... and yes, the front office is instrumental in setting up success ..

But, getting the players you have motivated, confident, fit and drilled in patterns and structure is a function of coaching ..

And imo, we are a very poorly coached team.

 

[Woodsie]

Part of the problem for Manly if you want them to play in a similar regimented way to the Panthers,is DCE.Not a criticism but he doesn’t play a methodical type of game like Cleary,he’s more off the cuff,for better or worse

What 100% of the style of play of the Panthers is designed to do is get Cleary into an attacking position with a couple of tackles in hand so he can utilize his talents ...

If Manly ate up field position the same way ... DCE's off the cuff style becomes an advantage ..

It is only a nightmare now because he is forced to try it in our own half because we have no structure.

 

[Seagles68]

There's so much more going on than just the coach. Chuck Ivan in at Manly after Toovey or Barrett and I imagine it wouldn't be too different from where we are now. The Tigers will be a shambles regardless of who coaches the team...unless that coach can fix everything else that's wrong at the club. Which IMO is not their job.

The Panthers have spent years building the club in so many areas - not just the first team's roster. They won Jersey Flegg, SG Ball, NSW Cup and the state championship. They're not just chasing the best players, they are creating the best teams with what they have.
They invest in their players and look after them:

Panthers reveal the price of success

Penrith Panthers have revealed the price of success – $17 million the club spends on football teams each year.

www.penrithpanthers.com.au

They've lobbied governments to get money, they do plenty of work to help their community and fans and they built an actual plan on how they would build it all.

We have; shut down community services, whinged about a lack of government money and council support (even after seeing progress), outsourced NSW cup to Blacktown and created a playing group that appears fractured and focused on the individual....and then sits back and watches as the inevitable (& metaphorical) bus slowly rolls over them (Walker, Manase, Rainbow 7 etc.)....and then, after all that, we say it was coaches fault and think new one will fix it.

*** or maybe we will just find out that they had a very advanced and successful doping culture in 5 years ;p

Whilst I don't disagree with what you're saying, am I going off track my suggesting that Manly will never be able to compete with the sort of resources (money) Penrith has given the income that is generated from the pokies in their Club ownership structure. They also have a local member in a marginal seat that likes to throw money their way.

In contrast, we have a mostly absent owner with, I'm assuming, limited funding capacity and questionable interest in developing the Club further.

We also have a limited junior competition in which to develop players even if we had the resources. Unlike the Western Suburbs that seem to have a limitless pool on which to draw. I get why we tried the Blacktown connection but clearly it has not worked. Whether that's because of a disconnect due to distance and lifestyle (and I'm not saying that in any negative way as I grew up in the west and now live on north shore - one is not better than the other) or that Blacktown simply gets what's left over after Penrith have attracted the cream.

Whatever it is, the Club needs a management team working on the same page and an owner demonstrating that he's in it for the long haul.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

@MuzztheEagle .. sorry if I sounded flippant ... and yes, the front office is instrumental in setting up success ..

But, getting the players you have motivated, confident, fit and drilled in patterns and structure is a function of coaching ..

And imo, we are a very poorly coached team.

A Chicken or Egg type question then;
If there are motivational issues at the club, do you think the right coach would (and should) be able to resolve them?
Personally, I don't think we could play as hard or as well structured with the team and culture that we currently have, regardless of who the coach and their assistants are....unless they can somehow fix the problems from the top down.

 

[Woodsie]

Whilst I don't disagree with what you're saying, am I going off track my suggesting that Manly will never be able to compete with the sort of resources (money) Penrith has given the income that is generated from the pokies in their Club ownership structure. They also have a local member in a marginal seat that likes to throw money their way.

In contrast, we have a mostly absent owner with, I'm assuming, limited funding capacity and questionable interest in developing the Club further.

We also have a limited junior competition in which to develop players even if we had the resources. Unlike the Western Suburbs that seem to have a limitless pool on which to draw. I get why we tried the Blacktown connection but clearly it has not worked. Whether that's because of a disconnect due to distance and lifestyle (and I'm not saying that in any negative way as I grew up in the west and now live on north shore - one is not better than the other) or that Blacktown simply gets what's left over after Penrith have attracted the cream.

Whatever it is, the Club needs a management team working on the same page and an owner demonstrating that he's in it for the long haul.

We also need a well coached football team ..

 

[mave]

Every time Penrith recieve a deep kick, not one of their forwards touch the ball until tackle 5,if at all.

Their back 3/5 eat up the early rucks, and make quality metres doing it.

Everything for the Panthers starts with the back 3/5.

They are extraordinarily well drilled, and fit as fk

 

[Woodsie]

A Chicken or Egg type question then;
If there are motivational issues at the club, do you think the right coach would (and should) be able to resolve them?
Personally, I don't think we could play as hard or as well structured with the team and culture that we currently have, regardless of who the coach and their assistants are....unless they can somehow fix the problems from the top down.

The front office creates the environment that leads to successful recruitment, retension and pathways that build a strong squad ... and ensures lasting strength ..

However, a team largely exist in an enclosed environment outside of the halls of power ... especially at narrabeen... one that is created by the coach and his staff.

I would bet you a lobster that 9/10 players couldn't even name 2 club directors ...

Regardless of the fact of the bitch fighting .. the team hasn't got the look, smell, feel or swagger of a well coached group.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Everything for the Panthers starts with the back 3/5.

They are extraordinarily well drilled, and fit as fk

That is part of the package but I think it begins with the rushing gang-style defence. Their forwards don't wait for an attacker they rush at them in numbers, and if you spin the ball wider they follow out so no-one is ever left posted (or very rarely).
This means your kicker is kicking on the back foot and that is when their strong backs come into it.