omnipotent beings discussion

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Maybe you should spend less time trawling the dark corners of Reddit to find your "evidence" based posts and instead actually discuss things rationally :)
But, I guess your posts do make one very good point. :p

What did you find irrational about the post?

I thought you were against ad hominem use...except when it suits you to deflect I guess. @:D
 
What did you find irrational about the post?

I thought you were against ad hominem use...except when it suits you to deflect I guess. @:D
I didn't claim anything about the post (other than it's origins).
Ad hominem cannot be extended to ideas I'm afraid. But, yes I'm probably pushing it by suggesting that their origins are questionable. But I am happy do discuss my logic on why I believe it to be so (and why I'm not going to bother on debating them).
I find it irrational to try and prove a point that no one is debating with you. What point/s are you trying to make here? You seem to want to post as much detail outlining why religion is good and true and atheism is evil and the cause of man's problems. How about you give us one belief (I can't recall you offering your own specific religious beliefs here yet) or idea and we discuss it rationally.
 
I don't like to rest assured on the MY own thoughts. MY own feelings. My own ideas. I like to read books on different ideas...then check with actual history to see if these "truths" match up to reality in the real world. If my thoughts add up to reality - great. If not...then I'd be silly to try to bend the truth...or ignore it outright to push my own agenda.

Some people obviously like to hide behind a mask of rationality and common sense thinking...even when history proves they are incorrect.

This isn't the philosophical forum...so historical facts in support of religion...and historical facts that denounce atheism, I would have thought would be entirely fitting.
 
I don't like to rest assured on the MY own thoughts. MY own feelings. My own ideas. I like to read books on different ideas...then check with actual history to see if these "truths" match up to reality in the real world. If my thoughts add up to reality - great. If not...then I'd be silly to try to bend the truth...or ignore it outright to push my own agenda.

Some people obviously like to hide behind a mask of rationality and common sense thinking...even when history proves they are incorrect.

This isn't the philosophical forum...so historical facts in support of religion...and historical facts that denounce atheism, I would have thought would be entirely fitting.
Cool, so you seek to denounce atheism. Can you give me one fact that does so, along with the reasoning why you think it does.
 
OK ... @mozgrame me little beauty ... shed some celestial light on this issue of mine ..... let us for the benefit of discussion agree that God made the Universe and Adam and Eve .....

My biggest wonder is what does he do to keep himself busy during the day ..... is he the all knowing, all powerful Father fiqure answering or rejecting prays, directing lives and events on a daily basis .... keeping his finger on the pulse .... responsible for all that happens in his earthly domain ..?

... Or is he like an absentee landlord that just doesn't sweat the small stuff and pretty much ignores the place for 1000's of years at a time .... only to put his head in the office to rustle up the odd Act of God to entertain us ..... ?
 
Totally vacuous to imply all ‘criticism’ is equally harmless or harmful. How about try a quick google search for ‘gay bashing’, it is a thing.
Say, if a player insisted on brazenly posting Nazi propaganda would you advocate we cheerfully ignore that, too? Hopefully not!
Again with the Nazi bashing....what did they ever do to you or me? :p
But seriously, @Woodsie actually has a point! You are trying to convince people who believe that the "word of god" is a perfectly reasonable and rational reason to believe in an idea. In their minds the criticism is comparable + Christians do suffer discrimination in many parts of the world.
IMO what needs to happen is an honest and thorough discussion about these religious beliefs. Can Izzy really justify this stance? Even giving him the possibility of an Abrahamic God's existence what else would that justify? Slavery? Genocide? ritual sacrifice? Church controlled government? Would he be comfortable with those ideas? Is his God really one of love or some cruel, sadistic and controlling POS?
 
The thing about atheists is that they are quick to tell you that they believe in nothing.
But if you believe then when what you believe in doesn't exist.
Very confusing people...
Would you care to eleborate on this some more? I'm not entirely sure what you are suggesting.

But I would say as an atheist that I don't agree (at least with my interpretation)of what you wrote. I don't think it's possible for anyone to believe in nothing and as an atheist your almost certain to believe in (the use of) logic and skepticism. I definitely believe in things but I require evidence and logic to reach those beliefs.

How did you reach this conclusion about Atheists? Do you speak with many? As with Christians, some Atheists are foolish, but that doesn't make all Atheists fools - that is simply a human trait.
 
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Care to name one?
Here's a couple, I can keep going if you want.

For all the talk of love there is a hell of a lot of violence:
Matthew 5:28-29:
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matthew 13:41-42:
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mark 9:45-46:
And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.
1 Samuel 15:3:
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

Jesus may have preached love and acceptance and all that but he never spoke out about the past teachings of God and the old testament God is one nasty piece of work.
Matthew 5:17-19:
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Who were the gospels written by:
Christian and non Christian scholars agree that Jesus was crucified around 30AD. Yet the best estimates for the gospels are around 40-80 years later. And the people who wrote them were not eyewitnesses to the "miracles" of Jesus.
 
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Here's a couple, I can keep going if you want.

For all the talk of love there is a hell of a lot of violence:
Matthew 5:28-29:
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matthew 13:41-42:
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mark 9:45-46:
And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.
1 Samuel 15:3:
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

Jesus may have preached love and acceptance and all that but he never spoke out about the past teachings of God and the old testament God is one nasty piece of work.
Matthew 5:17-19:
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Who were the gospels written by:
Christian and non Christian scholars agree that Jesus was crucified around 30AD. Yet the best estimates for the gospels are around 40-80 years later. And the people who wrote them were not eyewitnesses to the "miracles" of Jesus.
I'm not seeing any "holes" here, just a lack of understanding of how love and judgement can coexist and a really unsophisticated argument about when the gospels were written.

Feel free to keep going if you like, but if this is the kind of depth of analysis you'll be bringing you might be better off saving your time.
 
I'm not seeing any "holes" here, just a lack of understanding of how love and judgement can coexist and a really unsophisticated argument about when the gospels were written.

Feel free to keep going if you like, but if this is the kind of depth of analysis you'll be bringing you might be better off saving your time.
Love and judgement can coexist? It pretty much says; love me and do as I say or suffer the consequences. That's not love, that's abuse. Can you please explain to me how it isn't?
Can you provide any detail on who wrote the gospels and their credibility?
 
Love and judgement can coexist? It pretty much says; love me and do as I say or suffer the consequences. That's not love, that's abuse. Can you please explain to me how it isn't?
Can you provide any detail on who wrote the gospels and their credibility?
Do you have kids? How would you react if one came home addicted to heroin, or tried to murder one of their siblings, or started a child porn ring? If you don't have kids, can you at least imagine how a parent would react in such circumstances?

The best info from church history are that the gospels were written by the people whose names are on them. Authorship was probably in the range around 60-90 AD. Their content based on oral testimony of the actual witnesses. Speculation by Christian and secular scholars on the questions of authorship is rife, so no single definite account can be conclusive.
 
Do you have kids? How would you react if one came home addicted to heroin, or tried to murder one of their siblings, or started a child porn ring? If you don't have kids, can you at least imagine how a parent would react in such circumstances?
Yes, I have kids and no matter what I did I would not commit violence against them or doom them to eternal damnation. It's like saying: "I only hit you because I love you". It's abuse. As a parent I would be questioning where I went wrong. But then I'm only human, I can't be perfect.
God on the other hand is perfect - but he gives his children the lure of temptation and then punishes them for taking it. There is nothing my son could do that would make me cast him out of our home. I would want to understand what went wrong, I would want to know how we could make things better. Yes I would be upset, but with time comes forgiveness and understanding.
But for God, it's simple you fail to play by my rules (even when they aren't clear) and you will be punished....eternally.
 
In Mathew, it is unclear on who the message of Jesus was meant for. But it doesn't appear to be one of inclusion:

Matthew 28:19
Make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit
Matthew 10:5–6
These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.”
Matthew 15:24–6
[Jesus rejected her plea to heal her daughter, saying] “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
(Bit harsh IMO!!!)
 

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