New Winger - Jason Saab

[eagleron]

Stranger things have happened feathered friend 🙂

I'd love to see him back at home but it's a bit difficult to see it under the Penns, although Hasler and Foz are back so I guess it's not an impossibility

 

[BOZO]

Sadly I've toned my image down somewhat, you could say I'm a dull colour of beige, I drive a Ford Mondeo these days when I'm not in my motorhome ;=)

Be happy that you were able to drive a great convertible . Nothing sad about the Ford Mondeo as they are a good reliable and economical vehicle . The motorhomes are awesome as you are not stuck at one location . Variety is truly the spice of life feathered friend . Enjoy 🙂

 

[BOZO]

I'd love to see him back at home but it's a bit difficult to see it under the Penns, although Hasler and Foz are back so I guess it's not an impossibility

Its not impossible because every one has a price even though my feathered friend @SeaEagleRock8 does not believe me

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Made planes originally I recall

This is the Saab Gripen. Ironically it’s powered by a Volvo engine:

 

[Waz13]

Whats the big love affair With Saab can’t even make St Merges team?

He’s not Jorge or Reubs? But I take ur point and actually don’t disagree.. There’s every chance this thread will turn into one that’s bagging him this time next year. If he comes I guess we’ll find out.

 

[Mataiforever]

We need a tall winger who can defuse bombs. Garrick again had a shocker last weekend spilling a catch which directly led to a try. He is ok when he is spoon fed a ball and just has to finish it off, but does nothing extra ordinary like some of the other freak wingers out there. Saab is quicker than Garrick too.

I would like Saab and George Jennings on the wings for 2021. Hoppa is a long way off first grade and doesn't look comfortable of the wing. Cannot defend and is a lot weaker than i thought, his trade mark fend does nothing and is slower than i thought. We need competent wingers for next year. Ones that have some speed to finish off a try, safe under the bomb, and be able to have a strong kick return

Saab and Funa is more realistic and I’d be happy with that combo.

Funa didn’t look like a winger but I’m sure given a full preseason he can train to become one and get better at reading the defense.

Funa sure looked like a first grader at centre.

 

[Mataiforever]

What is this obsession with "tall wingers that can defuse bombs"?

Sure, being tall helps but there's so many other things they need in their arsenal.

Give me a Robbo over a Fergo any day.

JAC, Nofoaluma, Katoa aren't what you'd call tall, but I'd like to see how many they'd had scored against them from kicks?

Its more the fact that we scored something like 2 tries from kicks this year. A tall winger completely changes that and adds another dynamic to our attack.

I bet if one of those named came to Manly we wouldn’t score that many more tries from kicks. Whereas if a Tupou-like winger came there would be more awareness to use the aerial threat.

 

[double hoops]

Its more the fact that we scored something like 2 tries from kicks this year. A tall winger completely changes that and adds another dynamic to our attack.

I bet if one of those named came to Manly we wouldn’t score that many more tries from kicks. Whereas if a Tupou-like winger came there would be more awareness to use the aerial threat.

Only problem is DCE would also need to hit a short range target via his foot. Don't forget there is a reason MAN just get tackled on the last when in great field position.

 

[ManlyTragic]

I had a Saab 9-3 convertible, it was a great little car, if he's half as good I'll be happy

One of the most expensive cars to insure!

just sayin’

 

[Peter C]

This is the Saab Gripen. Ironically it’s powered by a Volvo engine:
View attachment 15659

If it's powered by a Volvo engine, does the pilot wear a hat?

 

[eagleron]

If it's powered by a Volvo engine, does the pilot wear a hat?

Yes a bowls hat I believe

 

[Technical Coach]

I know Reuben Garrick gets a bad wrap on here, especially for his defence. And I get that, his defence does kinda suck. Occasionally he can be good, that can't be denied and only would be by those who refuse to see it. But yes for the most part his defence shows why he is a winger and not in the middle tackling like Jake.

However.....however.....

I also think that a lot of it stems from our up and in style of defence and its something every single one of those who play wing for us including Garrick, Jorge, Funa, Hopoate, Miski and even Parker at times, suffer from. Up and in has a tendency to leave huge gaps out wide that unfortunately exploits the lack of pace in our outside backs. If we actually used a sliding defence, those gaps could be shut down before they even exist.

I'm not completely sold on the idea of getting rid of Garrick for Saab. I think Reubs could be seen as a lot better if we started to use a sliding instead of up and in defence. And I think people wouldn't be against him so much if we exploited his pace out wide a lot more than we currently do. It worked for the try he scored against the Warriors, but that type of play from us was a rare thing in 2020.

As for his goal kicking ... unfortunately we have struggled on that front since the day Matthew Ridge's contract ended. Other than the one year we had Ben Walker, and occasionally with Killer, we have struggled to find a consistently good kicker for the past 25 years. Reubs isn't the best kicker, even I will acknowledge that. He's nowhere near being up with the best, let along being the best. But as far as first grade kickers at Manly go he's actually the best we've got right now.

If Reubs is at Manly in 2021 I'd still fully expect to see him in the #5 jumper over anyone else we currently have in the squad.

Slide defence should only be used when the up and in can't snuff out the play in time or overly stretched for numbers and trying to hold off decision making. If the slide becomes the permanent style too many metres will be gained off each set.(in a general go forward set)

In the red zone the risk is your defence keeps backing off and doesn't commit to the tackle until they are basically falling over the tryline themselves, also straight running between the slide defenders can lead to very weak arm grabbing tackles that are easily sliced through.(go back to i think 1996 at Brookie against the Roosters for an example---- Fittler tearing apart our defensive line with some beautiful flat passes to straight runners in the first half)

In saying that most teams use a variety of defensive styles dependent on the situation and field position, it is not like the slide can't co-exist with the up and in.

I don't really pay as much attention to defensive structures as i do attack but i do recall Manly's numbering scheme in the past allowed more space between defenders and requiring a "1/2" defender to make spur of the moment decisions. This can lead to one side appearing outnumbered(technically not outnumbered just more space between defenders), but if you get it right you snuff out a lot of plays really early before they unfold to something dangerous. For example instead of a traditional 60/40 split you are really a 55/45 in some instances.

I would prefer coaches analyze the passing strengths and weaknesses of teams and have defensive numbers and spacing that reflect the strength and weaknesses of how efficiently a team passes or moves the ball across the field. Another more simple option is to work on just flooding the 10mtrs either side of the ball carrier with numbers---similar to how St George did so well earlier this decade under Bennett and Manly struggled to score points against the Dragons during this period.

At the moment i think our defensive structures are too confusing for a team that lacks stability or is having a major run on injuries----but i guess if you have a philosophy you stick with it through all grades and circumstances so everyone knows their job.

I think the modern games high skill level from passing to pin point attacking kicks to more technically correct and varied running lines can really expose the space behind and around the up and in more efficiently compared to a decade or so ago. Faster play the balls and less latitude allowed in slowing down the ruck is also going to make it harder for an overly aggressive up and in to make the right decisions also.

 

[HoldenV8]

Slide defence should only be used when the up and in can't snuff out the play in time or overly stretched for numbers and trying to hold off decision making. If the slide becomes the permanent style too many metres will be gained off each set.(in a general go forward set)

In the red zone the risk is your defence keeps backing off and doesn't commit to the tackle until they are basically falling over the tryline themselves, also straight running between the slide defenders can lead to very weak arm grabbing tackles that are easily sliced through.(go back to i think 1996 at Brookie against the Roosters for an example---- Fittler tearing apart our defensive line with some beautiful flat passes to straight runners in the first half)

In saying that most teams use a variety of defensive styles dependent on the situation and field position, it is not like the slide can't co-exist with the up and in.

I don't really pay as much attention to defensive structures as i do attack but i do recall Manly's numbering scheme in the past allowed more space between defenders and requiring a "1/2" defender to make spur of the moment decisions. This can lead to one side appearing outnumbered(technically not outnumbered just more space between defenders), but if you get it right you snuff out a lot of plays really early before they unfold to something dangerous. For example instead of a traditional 60/40 split you are really a 55/45 in some instances.

I would prefer coaches analyze the passing strengths and weaknesses of teams and have defensive numbers and spacing that reflect the strength and weaknesses of how efficiently a team passes or moves the ball across the field. Another more simple option is to work on just flooding the 10mtrs either side of the ball carrier with numbers---similar to how St George did so well earlier this decade under Bennett and Manly struggled to score points against the Dragons during this period.

At the moment i think our defensive structures are too confusing for a team that lacks stability or is having a major run on injuries----but i guess if you have a philosophy you stick with it through all grades and circumstances so everyone knows their job.

I think the modern games high skill level from passing to pin point attacking kicks to more technically correct and varied running lines can really expose the space behind and around the up and in more efficiently compared to a decade or so ago. Faster play the balls and less latitude allowed in slowing down the ruck is also going to make it harder for an overly aggressive up and in to make the right decisions also.

I do agree that sliding defence can also have its problems, especially as you point out that teams in defence, including ours, do have a tendency to back off when sliding which just invites metres. However, I do think that with a team that lacks pace out wide (and lets be honest, if Garrick isn't there we lose a lot of pace on the flanks because Funa, Hopoate, Miski and Jorge aren't exactly the Usain Bolt's of rugby league), sliding is better than up and in.

I do agree that in a perfect world, your defensive structure should be tailored to suit who the opposition is. Its weird really. Top level rugby league must be one of the few team ball sports where there seems to be a one size fits all as far as defence goes. Teams either slide or go up and in. Rarely will you see an NRL team constantly adjusting one way or the other regardless who they are playing. They manage to do it in baseball, basketball, grid iron, soccer, even Aussie rules, but not so much in league.

 

[40 years an eagle]

I do agree that in a perfect world, your defensive structure should be tailored to suit who the opposition is.

I am of the thought that outside back defensive structure should be tailored to the strengths and weaknesses of the players you have filling those positions.
Slow, fast, less agile, short, tall, strong defender/weaker defender.

Is there a reason why both sides have to defend in the same way? Is it possible to have a half, a 5/8, 2 centres and 2 wingers that all have the same strengths thus enabling one defensive structure style that suits them all without having a limitless budget?
Load one side defending one structure depending on strengths and the other defending a different way on theirs. Recruit/fill positions with players that fit on one side's structure or the other.

Surely million dollar coaches can work that out?

 

[HoldenV8]

I am of the thought that outside back defensive structure should be tailored to the strengths and weaknesses of the players you have filling those positions.
Slow, fast, less agile, short, tall, strong defender/weaker defender.

Is there a reason why both sides have to defend in the same way? Is it possible to have a half, a 5/8, 2 centres and 2 wingers that all have the same strengths thus enabling one defensive structure style that suits them all without having a limitless budget?
Load one side defending one structure depending on strengths and the other defending a different way on theirs. Recruit/fill positions with players that fit on one side's structure or the other.

Surely million dollar coaches can work that out?

You'd like to think so. But for some reason it doesn't happen that much in the NRL. Take us for example. All year we were a team who played up and in defence no matter who the opposition was or who was in our side. It really was a one size fits all defensive structure. And even when we were getting killed out wide, there was almost never a change to anything like a sliding defence, it was always up and in (I think it was once called an umbrella defence when Warren Ryan used it at the Dogs in the mid-80s).

Are the players and coaches these days that much robotic that they aren't capable of changing to suit the needs at the time?

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

If it's powered by a Volvo engine, does the pilot wear a hat?

Yes, reinforced and with comms, visors plus an oxygen mask attached.

But that’s not important right now.

 

[Stuey Davis’s Socks]

Yes, reinforced and with comms, visors plus an oxygen mask attached.

But that’s not important right now.

Surely you can’t be serious?

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Surely you can’t be serious?

I am serious and don’t call me Shirley.

 

[Technical Coach]

I am of the thought that outside back defensive structure should be tailored to the strengths and weaknesses of the players you have filling those positions.
Slow, fast, less agile, short, tall, strong defender/weaker defender.

Is there a reason why both sides have to defend in the same way? Is it possible to have a half, a 5/8, 2 centres and 2 wingers that all have the same strengths thus enabling one defensive structure style that suits them all without having a limitless budget?
Load one side defending one structure depending on strengths and the other defending a different way on theirs. Recruit/fill positions with players that fit on one side's structure or the other.

Surely million dollar coaches can work that out?

There really isn't a large enough difference(in general) between players in the outside backs to warrant tailoring a defensive structure based around the differences in players abilities and size. On top of that unlike most other sports where one on one defence is more noticeable(and your positive and negative attributes better highlighted) with League it is more working as a unit and numbers in a tackle.

I don't mind spacing changes for different teams, or even for slower players to not allow too much space on their outside to cover but you don't want structure changes all the time based on opposition teams and players in your own line up that could change through injuries and suspensions.

 

[Mataiforever]

Only problem is DCE would also need to hit a short range target via his foot. Don't forget there is a reason MAN just get tackled on the last when in great field position.

hit a fair few first year. also hit a fair few when wolfman was out there... but agreed needs to take the bomb option. its tough when youve had jorge on one wing since 2012 who hasnt been able to catch & compete in the air since 2015