Negative play results

[maxta]

Have seen many games the past year where a teams gets an early penalty & opts for 2 points....so often well beaten after this decision.
I think as an example....NSW done this in game 3 in 2015 & the game was not pretty from that point.
The modern game is built on momentum & taking the shot for goal is a sign the attacking team lacks confidence & gives the defending team time out plus in a way...some ascendency.
Another form of negative play which Brisbane have displayed against Cowboys in recent times is protecting a lead...rather than play the footy that got them there....safety first, kick for the sidelines....not professing to tell Benett right from wrong, but apart from a negative boring spectacle...teams doing this look likely to get run down.
Hopefully if Manly get the luxury of this option through 2016 - will opt to apply the blowtorch & continue to destroy the opposition as the Cows do well....

 

[manlyfan76]

Have seen many games the past year where a teams gets an early penalty & opts for 2 points....so often well beaten after this decision.
I think as an example....NSW done this in game 3 in 2015 & the game was not pretty from that point.
The modern game is built on momentum & taking the shot for goal is a sign the attacking team lacks confidence & gives the defending team time out plus in a way...some ascendency.
Another form of negative play which Brisbane have displayed against Cowboys in recent times is protecting a lead...rather than play the footy that got them there....safety first, kick for the sidelines....not professing to tell Benett right from wrong, but apart from a negative boring spectacle...teams doing this look likely to get run down.
Hopefully if Manly get the luxury of this option through 2016 - will opt to apply the blowtorch & continue to destroy the opposition as the Cows do well....

There is a David Middleton stat that teams that take the two are the next to score a try more often than not.

 

[maxta]

There is a David Middleton stat that teams that take the two are the next to score a try more often than not.

Maybe there is...not a fan of stats though they do have a place in the game....
That stat however could also be accompanied by scoring a try, the same team will score the next more often than not, with 4-6 points the result rather than 2.
Just feel often defending teams on the ropes are happy to see the Captain indicate 2 points & in some cases...there's even certain teams who are willing to give away penalties when under the pump to indicate this.
Also in general...have seen many teams who put the cue in the rack when leading , get run down...just a believer that teams should play what got them in front, rather than change to pure defence mode offering the opposition to "catch us if you can"

 

[Haliaeetus]

disagree
take the two points every time, unless a quick tap is on the cards

 

[Bradza]

Taking the two points for a few wins should be our first goal before we start worrying about the manner in which we get those wins.

 

[HoldenV8]

For mine, whether to take a penalty goal would really depend on the state of the game. If you're pushing a lead out to beyond 1 or 2 converted tries then fine, go for the goal unless you're confident enough that you can score a try. Same as if you can lock the scores up or take the lead. Taking a penalty goal is also a good way of giving your team a small rest if needed, kinda like kicking for the corner used to be before the scrum clock (another wonderful TV innovation taking over the rulings in rugby league). But if the team is say, 10 points down I wouldn't be kicking penalty goals like they do in yawnion, I'd be busting my butt for a try.

As for negative play, this is the trap Brisbane fell into in last years GF. They got a lead but rather than try and build on it and make sure of the win (see Manly 2008), they tried to merely protect the lead. That kept the Cows in the game and eventually it backfired on the Broncos in the biggest possible way, the loss of a GF.

 

[maxta]

disagree
take the two points every time, unless a quick tap is on the cards

Yep - a good mate of mine is always of that belief.....I probably more focus on the mentality side of the game & its importance, in comparison to the 2 extra's on the scoreboard....there's no doubt an argument both ways.
My point was more based on that early 2 inside the first 5-10 minutes ....as H8 rightly points out - the situation can determine the decision & in other situations - the 2 is a must...just early on not a fan.

 

[Fluffy]

Have seen many games the past year where a teams gets an early penalty & opts for 2 points....so often well beaten after this decision.
I think as an example....NSW done this in game 3 in 2015 & the game was not pretty from that point.
The modern game is built on momentum & taking the shot for goal is a sign the attacking team lacks confidence & gives the defending team time out plus in a way...some ascendency.
Another form of negative play which Brisbane have displayed against Cowboys in recent times is protecting a lead...rather than play the footy that got them there....safety first, kick for the sidelines....not professing to tell Benett right from wrong, but apart from a negative boring spectacle...teams doing this look likely to get run down.
Hopefully if Manly get the luxury of this option through 2016 - will opt to apply the blowtorch & continue to destroy the opposition as the Cows do well....

Counter this with the team who gets a few sets in the first 15 minutes but fails to score more often than not the opposition scores soon after with ease and goes on to win the game built on the confidence that their defense cannot be penetrated.

 

[maxta]

Counter this with the team who gets a few sets in the first 15 minutes but fails to score more often than not the opposition scores soon after with ease and goes on to win the game built on the confidence that their defense cannot be penetrated.

Fair argument & new most would be of this belief - its a healthy debate Fluffy....defence can alter the result but for mine, defending your line in general - not just against penalties.
That repeat set - no try theory is 100% accurate, but this can happen with repeat sets from opposition dropped ball or a penalty from your own red zone giving repeat sets...if the attack is not going to score tries - its doubtful a game will be won by kicking penalties in the modern game...
I think old school footy where the defence was only 5 metres back & the game more hearty, penalty goals were of more importance - especially tries were only 3 points.....

 

[Fluffy]

The thinking is a penalty puts you ahead. Some game are won by 1 point.

 

[Woodsie]

A modern day tactic is for the defending team to give away a penalty rather than let a quick play the ball result in a try.

Taking the two points early is also a tactic to say to the defending team, if you deliberately give away holding down penalties on your line, we will take the 2 points.

It can put a defense in two minds.

 

[NYEagle]

The bulldogs used the two points gained early in the second half to stop the roosters momentum gained at the end of the first half where they scored the last 10 points.
Sometimes, and you can see it with teams, is that when you deny the two points and keep attacking and are turned away by the defence, that can work negatively against that team psychologically too.
NYEagle

 

[Shaka1eye]

In the first 5 - 10 minutes fatigue isn't a factor (you would hope not anyway) so maybe it's better to bag some points while the defensive side is still fresh.

 

[Rodo]

The game of rugby league has changed in recent years and the game is much more defensive oriented. It is much harder for teams now to get through the defensive line and more often than not tries are scored either from kicks or passes wide to wingers to catch out the compressed defense. And there is also the recently introduced 7 tackle set if the ball goes dead in goal (which is now classed as an error) from a kick. So tries are harder to score and hence the reason for going for 2 points instead of pressing for a try.

 

[maxta]

Given we seem to be behind 12-0 early on in most of our games, I think this is rather moot. I also like saying moot.

Not such about us TR....more just a general opinion on what mentality going for 2 gives both the attacking & defending sides in general.
Personally feel 90% of games the team that scores more tries wins....though the Sharks game- kicking proved costly....not penalties....think it was 6 - 1 penalties till he realised Cronulla was not all angels.

 

[MissKate]

If the refs stopped their obsession with giving bs penalties within kicking distance we wouldn't need to be having this discussion. I cannot tell you how over a hand on the ball penalty inside the 20 I am. It is purely a ref's ego trip and is a blight on the game

 

[maxta]

If the refs stopped their obsession with giving bs penalties within kicking distance we wouldn't need to be having this discussion. I cannot tell you how over a hand on the ball penalty inside the 20 I am. It is purely a ref's ego trip and is a blight on the game

I know right...
But these refs are c**p & will keep it up till the next Brisbane/Cowboys game.....just thinking back those 6 points....maybe I'm greedy & lack patience - have been told this before.....

 

[Enigma]

Some interesting points raised here. I am constantly amazed at the comments made by the ch 9 commentry team on this issue. From memory they were suprised at the dogs taking an early two points ( fair enough point to debate ) but when they took another two to extend the lead from 8 to 10 they could see no point to this. The points gathered by two penalties equaled a try but this link seemed lost on them. According to my simple maths this means the opposition can score two unconverted tries and still be behind or score two tries and convert one and still not lead. It is obviously a debatable issue what you do but to declare no difference between an 8 and 10 point lead is wrong. While I am at it , and at least ten years too late , I was even more amazed when they used to crap on about a 10 point breeze blowing in someones favour in each half. I started taking notice of the outcomes and most often it was the reverse effect. Probably why they don't refer to it now

 

[Killer03]

Some interesting points raised here. I am constantly amazed at the comments made by the ch 9 commentry team on this issue. From memory they were suprised at the dogs taking an early two points ( fair enough point to debate ) but when they took another two to extend the lead from 8 to 10 they could see no point to this. The points gathered by two penalties equaled a try but this link seemed lost on them. According to my simple maths this means the opposition can score two unconverted tries and still be behind or score two tries and convert one and still not lead. It is obviously a debatable issue what you do but to declare no difference between an 8 and 10 point lead is wrong. While I am at it , and at least ten years too late , I was even more amazed when they used to crap on about a 10 point breeze blowing in someones favour in each half. I started taking notice of the outcomes and most often it was the reverse effect. Probably why they don't refer to it now

I don't get when the commentators say a team is 2 points ahead or 8 or whatever and they say 2 points wont help them. If you are 2 clear, 5 to play, and get a penalty, it then takes away the other team shooting a penalty to tie it up. Which means you could reasonably do a lot of holding down and giving away penalties on your try line and not be worried.

And alternatively with the 8 pt lead, another 2 and they say say 10pts is a useless lead to get. As you say it means if they score 2 tries and both are outwide you are a better chance.

 

[Shoe1]

I don't get when the commentators say a team is 2 points ahead or 8 or whatever and they say 2 points wont help them. If you are 2 clear, 5 to play, and get a penalty, it then takes away the other team shooting a penalty to tie it up. Which means you could reasonably do a lot of holding down and giving away penalties on your try line and not be worried.

And alternatively with the 8 pt lead, another 2 and they say say 10pts is a useless lead to get. As you say it means if they score 2 tries and both are outwide you are a better chance.

Yeah you get points and possession. It counts.