more COVID discussion

[Eagles4Life]

Just wondering if this thread could be moved from the Rugby League Forum into the General Discussion Forum? Perhaps the Rugby League Forum should remain purely focussed on Rugby League discussion? Just a thought.🧐🤔😎

 

[Technical Coach]

Is there conflict? I would suggest that the far far majority of people have no conflict and are following the health advice.

If anything the freedom of choice is over represented in the media (and definitely on social media)

Following the health advice and getting the jab doesn't mean within that same group there is no conflict in relation to this topic.

 

[wombatgc]

Ok, thought I’d drop this new Netflix special in this thread, as it is relevant. Who thought they could come up with a piss take on 2021. Loved "Gemma" in this, cracked me up. And the fact they got the American actors to actually take the piss in a very British/Aussie way was amazing.
Laughter is always the best medicine, especially in the darkest of times.


Seen “Death to 2021” on Netflix yet?

Watch Death to 2021 | Netflix Official Site

This darkly comedic retrospective mixes real news footage and scripted talking-head interviews as it sends up the year that tried to one-up 2020.

www.netflix.com

 

[Technical Coach]

That is only part of the point, not the whole point. From when the first vaccines were developed the message has been the same - no-one is safe until we are all safe. The vaccines must be available to the whole world's population.
Until that happens the virus has more opportunity to spread and mutate. Which obviously is continuing to occur.



For those who don't want to be part of the global effort to beat the virus, that's fine by me, but they can't expect to be able to carry on with all their stupid illusory 'freedoms' while continuing to put others at risk.

How about this question TC - should employers not have 'freedom' to choose who to employ? Or who to allow to fly on their plane, or sit in their stuffy cinema?
Here's an imperfect analogy for you. Suppose someone refuses to wash, and stinks! Is it unfair to fire them or bar their attendance?

All individuals in my book should have freedom to choose, my gripe is that Govt in this instance shouldn't have any influence or power to force people by various means to stick something into their own body, in the same way Govt doesn't dictate my daily food and drink consumption(other than maybe through a sugar tax in the future)

No idea why you are bringing personal freedoms from another angle to the discussion when it falls right in line with my belief system.

The people who are vaccinated shouldn't really be even bothered by the unvaccinated, is that not one of the reasons to be vaccinated in the first place.

The choice is simple "improve your protection levels or not" that is it, no influence from Govt is necessary, no mandate is required, no mandate for compulsory use of QR codes either.

"You wont beat the virus" with the effectiveness of current vaccines on the market that is for sure like we don't ever beat the Flu.(or maybe you will argue that not enough people get the Flu vaccine to beat it right)

The issue is not about the pros and cons of vaccination, the issue is the over reach of Govt in the personal freedoms of individuals.

The more we give up individual freedoms the more chance of creating a dictator like leadership in the future----learn from the past not repeat it.

Also natural immunity from my limited knowledge also tries to stop the virus in the airways before it can proceed further, vaccines don't.

The risk is we could all be prolonging the opportunity for the virus to mutate by vaccination due to less effective immunity over natural immunity and our bodies not responding to vaccines from over-use, but yes these are not facts yet but well educated people in this field have their worries.

Rushed decision making is creating kneejerk reactions, we need a little push back from conservative thought processes to get things in balance, i'm not against vaccination as i am vaccinated but totally against the way it has progressed so far.

 

[Technical Coach]

OK OK I did say it was an imperfect analogy!
How about this angle? Why are those (such as @Technical Coach) who worry about 'freedom' not worried about the 'freedom' or rights of the 'usual' unemployed?
"Hey I'm not one of that riff-raff 10-20% of the workforce who have to remain unemployed at any given time in order for our economic system to function! I'm supposed to be one of the privileged who have a secure job! Don't lump me in with that useless lot, the worthless refuse of society! Waaa! unfair discrimination!"

If the demands for fair treatment of workers facing difficulty due to the pandemic were linked with demands for the right to work for everyone - real jobs at award wages not work-for-the-dole BS - i'd probably be down there joining the protest!

No idea what you are on about in this reply, looks like you had a little too much to drink.(the reply is all over the place and hard to follow)

 

[Technical Coach]

Covid is a real disease that does, occasionally, kill someone who wasn't already dying of something else

That is a misleading comment, there are perfectly healthy people "not dying of something else" who pass away from Covid, the research at the moment(not conclusive yet) is leaning to genetic factors in some individuals.

Gene linked to doubling risk of COVID-19 death found by UK scientists

British scientists have identified a version of a gene that may be associated with double the risk of lung failure from COVID-19, a finding that provides new insights into why some people are more susceptible than othersto severe illness and which opens possibilities for targeted medicine.

www.reuters.com

 

[Eagles4Life]

Or perhaps this thread could be used for its originally intended purpose? To discuss season 2022 and how covid will affect it?

Seems like a reasonable idea to me. At this stage the dominant themes in the thread (as nonsensical as many of them appear to be) are far removed from that original intended purpose.

 

[Spartan Eagle]

In 2021 Pfizer - by their own estimate - made 36 billion dollars from the sale of Covid vaccine which was about 75% of the total company profit from all production in 2020. Their share price increased from a high of $37.58 on 28 December 2020 to $59.38 on 27 December this year. Unsurprisingly it was Pfizer who advised the US government that the best defences against Omacron was another shot of their vaccine.

I can't be bothered to look up the data on Moderna and Astrazeneca but I strongly suspect the story would be the same. Why else would Pfizer and Moderna be spending a fortune on lawyers and court cases trying to get an exclusive patent for the vaccine technology (of which the government funded the development)

Covid is a real disease that does, occasionally, kill someone who wasn't already dying of something else but that's not why it stays in the news. It stays in the news because there is an obscene amount of public money to be had. It also makes a very effective smoke screen for a government determined to scuttle action on climate change, destroy any independent oversight of government ministers, and sign us up as an arm of the American military.

I've buried two associates in the past 12 months (don't fuss I've just reached that stage in life) but neither of them were national tragedies because neither tested positive for Covid.

I'd like to make a deal with SE8 and the other people living in terror of Covid. Please explain to me what "life" is. Not the "moves", "consumes", "reproduces" malarkey but what life actually is, and what a "human" actually is. If you can convince me that these things are significant and must be protected at all cost I'll join you hiding under the bed.

As is my habit I'll throw in some random numbers at this point. In the time that 5 million people died with Covid around the world 18 million people STARVED TO DEATH around the world. One little baby dies of starvation every 10 seconds. Chances are it expires in the arms of its weeping mother. In the time that 5 million people died with Covid 14 million people dies just from air pollution. These things, of course, aren't tragedies because they don't present a threat to you and your loved ones.

If any politician would commit to spending $100 billion on funding our hospitals and saving the lives of children in the 3rd world - rather than on buying new subs for the Americans, destroying the environment, and stationing more foreign troops and missiles on Australian soil - I'd vote for the bustard.

Profits are unparalleled if you take into consideration that $0 went into development (this was all funded by governments / tax payers) and $0 into advertising. The 3-4 main companies have a monopoly on world market. This is unheard of. Normally with any drug millions and years go into research and development and even then there is no guarantee the product will hit the shelves depending on safety/efficacy from trials. We are in the hands of the 'science' of big pharma. No independant studies on safety or efficacy is being carried out by our government/ body. And our government has also indemnified Pfizer, Moderna and Astra of any liability for potential harm. So those that do legitimitaly get injuries from vaccines have no recourse. The green light run is on for big pharma for the forceable future.

 

[Smokin Joe]

All individuals in my book should have freedom to choose, my gripe is that Govt in this instance shouldn't have any influence or power to force people by various means to stick something into their own body, in the same way Govt doesn't dictate my daily food and drink consumption(other than maybe through a sugar tax in the future)

No idea why you are bringing personal freedoms from another angle to the discussion when it falls right in line with my belief system.

The people who are vaccinated shouldn't really be even bothered by the unvaccinated, is that not one of the reasons to be vaccinated in the first place.

The choice is simple "improve your protection levels or not" that is it, no influence from Govt is necessary, no mandate is required, no mandate for compulsory use of QR codes either.

"You wont beat the virus" with the effectiveness of current vaccines on the market that is for sure like we don't ever beat the Flu.(or maybe you will argue that not enough people get the Flu vaccine to beat it right)

The issue is not about the pros and cons of vaccination, the issue is the over reach of Govt in the personal freedoms of individuals.

The more we give up individual freedoms the more chance of creating a dictator like leadership in the future----learn from the past not repeat it.

Also natural immunity from my limited knowledge also tries to stop the virus in the airways before it can proceed further, vaccines don't.

The risk is we could all be prolonging the opportunity for the virus to mutate by vaccination due to less effective immunity over natural immunity and our bodies not responding to vaccines from over-use, but yes these are not facts yet but well educated people in this field have their worries.

Rushed decision making is creating kneejerk reactions, we need a little push back from conservative thought processes to get things in balance, i'm not against vaccination as i am vaccinated but totally against the way it has progressed so far.

I personally am fine if people choose to be unvaxed,I however would hope that if any who do and then fall sick show the courage of their convictions and stay home and ride it out without burdening the healthcare system(essentially you made your bed,now lie in it,if you live then so be it,if you die then so be it)
Unfortunately that is not the case.......

 

[Woodsie]

It's q bit more than a couple of extreme cases. Let's turn to an independent source. The Harvard Law School Forum on Corporate Governance published estimates that the median salary of CEOs of large US companies increased - in real terms - by over 500% between 1990 and 2020. There were some pretty big tech developments in that time that accounted for some of the growth but remember we're talking median salary not average salary. 50% of CEO positions increased by more than 500% adjusted for inflation. In the same period the GDP (adjusted for inflation) increased by around 8% while the average wage (in real terms) stayed about the same.

Greed drives growth in corporate salaries not productivity or social values.

And companies that didn't make a profit went broke .. and their CEO's and stock holders got nothing ..

Anyway ... by your own data .. you comprehensively prove .. and no doubt agree ... that executives having their remuneration tied to stock prices is neither unusual or illegal.

So again I ask ... don't you think your stating that Pfizer executives have their income tied to stock prices was an ingenious attempt to muddy the waters in a covid discussion? ..

 

[Kevinward777]

Pfizer raises Covid vaccine sales forecast to $36 billion for 2021

PUBLISHED TUE, NOV 2 2021 6:52 AM EDTUPDATED TUE, NOV 2 2021 7:52 AM EDT

KEY POINTS

Pfizer on Tuesday raised the full-year sales forecast for its Covid-19 vaccine by 7.5% to $36 billion, as it signs deals with countries for booster doses and receives clearances for using its shots in children.The company said it is also on track to deliver 2.3 billion doses of the vaccine, out of the roughly 3 billion it plans to make this year.The vaccine brought in sales of $13 billion in the third quarter. Analysts had expected $10.88 billion on average, according to seven analysts polled by Refinitiv.

In this article

PFE

Pfizer on Tuesday raised the full-year sales forecast for its Covid-19 vaccine by 7.5% to $36 billion, as it signs deals with countries for booster doses and receives clearances for using its shots in children.

The company said it is also on track to deliver 2.3 billion doses of the vaccine, out of the roughly 3 billion it plans to make this year.

Driven by an unprecedented vaccination drive against the Covid-19 pandemic globally, Pfizer's shot has quickly become one of the best-selling products in the company's roughly 172-year history. The company equally splits expenses and profit from the vaccine with its German partner BioNTech.

Other rivals such as Moderna and Johnson & Johnson have faced production snags, helping Pfizer extend its lead in signing supply deals with countries.

Pfizer is also rolling out booster doses of the vaccine, while waiting for the outcome of a U.S. regulatory meeting later in the day on using its shots in children aged five to 11.

The vaccine brought in sales of $13 billion in the third quarter. Analysts had expected $10.88 billion on average, according to seven analysts polled by Refinitiv.

 

[Kevinward777]

GENEVA/NEW YORK, NOVEMBER 4 2021—As Moderna released its 2021 third quarter sales figures today showing astronomical profits from the COVID-19 vaccine, the international medical humanitarian organization

 

[Kevinward777]

Live TV

Covid vaccine profits mint 9 new pharma billionaires

By Hanna Ziady, CNN Business

Updated 4:03 PM EDT, Fri May 21, 2021

London(CNN Business)Covid-19 vaccines have created at least nine new billionaires after shares in companies producing the shots soared.

Topping the list of new billionaires are Moderna (MRNA) CEO Stéphane Bancel and Ugur Sahin, the CEO of BioNTech (BNTX), which has produced a vaccine with Pfizer (PFE). Both CEOs are now worth around $4 billion, according to an analysis by the People's Vaccine Alliance, a campaign group that includes Oxfam, UNAIDS, Global Justice Now and Amnesty International.

Senior executives from China's CanSino Biologics and early investors in Moderna have also become billionaires on paper as shares skyrocketed, partly in expectation of profits earned from Covid vaccines, which also bode well for the companies' future prospects. The analysis was compiled using data from the Forbes Rich List.

Moderna's share price has gained more than 700% since February 2020, while BioNTech has surged 600%. CanSino Biologics' stock is up about 440% over the same period. The company's single-dose Covid-19 vaccine was approved for use in China in February.

 

[Kevinward777]

Some astronomical sums of money are being made.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I personally am fine if people choose to be unvaxed,I however would hope that if any who do and then fall sick show the courage of their convictions and stay home and ride it out without burdening the healthcare system(essentially you made your bed,now lie in it,if you live then so be it,if you die then so be it)
Unfortunately that is not the case.......

No they’ll go cap in hand , in the foetal position , screaming for their mummies too!!

It’s just fine screaming , shouting and protesting UNTIL you get sick !!

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Some astronomical sums of money are being made.

That’s the world we live in , even in places such as Russia & China where communism thrives.

 

[Woodsie]

The choice is simple "improve your protection levels or not" that is it, no influence from Govt is necessary, no mandate is required, no mandate for compulsory use of QR codes either.

Except .. if allowed to run it's course unfettered .. and the hospitals, ambulances and health care workers are overloaded ... good luck getting an ambulance to your fatal car crash, or getting into a hospital, or getting an ICU bed .. good luck to all the selective surgery patients waiting .. or people with sick children ...

This is no exaggeration .. where I live has a pop of 25,000 and 2 ambulances .. the nearest hospital is a 25-30 min drive .. taking one covid patient to hospital including time at the home and time at the hospital would be an hour and a half round trip .. so one ambulance could service 5 patients in a shift .. if only 1% of people in the area get covid and need treatment we are going to struggle ..

Any discussion of peoples rights without a corresponding acknowlegment of what their civic and social responsibilities are is just adolescent dummy spitting ..

The only sane response was to keep the numbers as low as possible until an overwhelming % of people had been vaccinated to reduce the number that would require hospitalisation .. this has been largely achieved. .. at least as well as could be ..

And like the flu virus, and every other virus known .. the covid virus will mutate .. and as it does so to will the boosters, maybe forever ...

That companies make money for producing and delivering vaccines .. so what .. that in no way changes the nature of the virus or what a nations response to it is .. or should be ..

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

No idea what you are on about in this reply, looks like you had a little too much to drink.(the reply is all over the place and hard to follow)

Really? Sorry about that.
You posted that keeping our nation great is about keeping "freedom of choice". The context being, we should be free to refuse the vaccine without risking losing our jobs.

My point was, many people don't even have a job. And of those, many may never have a job.

So how does the concept of 'freedom' even have any relevance to employment in Australia? Don't you think the issue is really job security, and the right to work?

 

[simon64]

i started this thread for thoughts on the 22 season and how it will be affected. Being based in London we are further down the road in relation to infection rates and sporting comps being affected at this very moment.

I admit I've been sucked down the rabbit hole on the discussion as well so from now on its all info directly related to facts and effects on our great game.

Off topic....There is no reason to be unvaccinated. To be ineligible, you would have to be in the tiniest slither of the population. Trotting out the old chestnut that it's the vaccinated who are spreading the virus is really clutching at straws. We have 60 or so people in ICU most of whom are unvaccinated. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this would have been significantly higher with a lower vaccination rate. So for the sake of the people working in hospitals, just do it. I'm unashamedly anti-choice when your crappy choice increases the likelihood that some poor health care worker is going to have to nurse your sorry arse.

I literally just got off the phone with my 59 year old cousin who is Covid positive and isolating. She's pretty sick, which I know is not everyone's experience, but why would you take the chance ? Her 83 year old mother, who is also Covid positive, was discharged from hospital yesterday and is thankfully doing pretty well.

Now on topic....It seems that we can almost be assured that the NRL season is going to be massively affected by the increase in cases. The number of A-League matches being postponed is bordering on ridiculous. There are already 3 matches in this weekend's round pushed back to who knows when and they just add to an ever expanding list of games that need to be made up.

Even if crowds are not limited, there are people who will simply choose not to attend because they deem it an unreasonable risk. This will hit the bottom line of every team.

The only way this can be avoided is to literally treat Covid like the flu. The only person that "isolates" is the person who's sick. Everyone else just carries on. I can't see it happening though.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Covid vaccine profits mint 9 new pharma billionaires

Interesting indeed, but I'm not entirely sure what point you and Cioran are getting at here.
It sounds like you think that is excessive.

If so - what would you say is the appropriate number of new pharma billionaires? Only one or two?

And if you are worried about the executives getting so much, do you have any concerns about the shareholders? I mean, the CEO and executives only do the bidding of the board, who are appointed to represent the shareholders. (Democracy!)

Do you think we should limit how many shares a person can hold in Pfizer (for example)?

If so, how can we come up with the right number? And how could it ever be regulated? Seeing how the richer they get the more they hire specialists to bury their assets deep in elaborate corporate hiding places so no-one can even work out what they own!!

Stone the crows, you might have opened a big can of worms here. Well done!