Morale

[ManEagle]

Even peats from the titans is a better option at 9 that foran or croker once levi leaves on sunday.

We we sign foran we are in deeper trouble than I thought

Chin up its the morale thread. Pretty low at the moment but we can only go up

 

[Wombat64]

To improve our morale I reckon we have to stop thinking about this **** house team for a few months. Get back to easier topics like religion, politics and conspiracy theories. I'm so done with these clowns for 2020. They don't deserve anymore attention. The people that get paid the BIG $$$$ at the club need to fix the mess that is currently the not so mighty Manly Sea Eagles and get some fire in the belly and come out firing in 2021.

I wish I could just forget what I have seen on the field this year.

 

[StuBoot]

Fainu cant have helped. But if we look at the season we were attitude A + for about the first 10 weeks. Somewher around there after losing turbo we had maybe 2 good weeks in them

Then free fall

The team looks gassed in attitude as opposed to fitness. What thats about , im not sure. From a fans view it had a familiar feel. The players must understand the teams ability. They seem to need to start well, try and score a hundred points , if that fails its here we go again,

My feel is the team doesnt believe it has many points in them

This is my take on it also to a certain extent.

More like mentally shot which then affects attitude and intensity and ultimately decision making.
We often hear that the biggest challenge is "getting up" mentally every week and then again and again.
Start the year off with no Fainu, okay, we have the talent and tools to work around that but...
add in the Covid bubble, Turbo out, Walker out, AFB suspensions and injuries ( attitude??) , Marty injuries, Jorge's loss of form and a few others it's got to take it's toll.

The only real constants have been DCE, Jake and Parker (and he's had his share of problems too).
DCE and Jake whilst playing consistent footy have felt the need to take it on themselves (to do) too much, that's their competitive nature, with that they can't be faulted but with mental fatigue comes problems in decision making.

Off the top of my head we've had
Four different fullbacks - all of differing quality and experience
Six different wingers
Lost count of how many centres - even Thommo, Jetski and Waddell have played there
5/8's - at least four, maybe five ( and Schuster looked the best )
Second rowers - six, maybe seven
Hookers - three, again of differing quality and experience
Props - Paseka has finally come good but without AFB and Marty, Keppie and Boyle haven't really set the world on fire.

As you say @jbb/james, the team must understand it's ability so they know things have to go right to get the job done - the frustration at the forward pass call v Parra, the no penalty v the Knights, getting run over by the Knights and the Tigers etc.

Don't want to relive the weekend too much but it seemed that whatever error we made was compounded and once it started it was hard to stop, mentally fatigued as well as physically.
I was saying to my daughter Miski is our 5th choice winger ( at best), Harper and Hoppa got found out and add in Funa they've played less than 20 games between them.
Funa is finding his feet in first grade but in a dozen games he's played three different positions so again mentally, it's a tough ask.

I know there are plenty here calling for more accountability for DCE but he's in the top 5 in the NRL for Try Assists, Line Break Assists, Kicks, Kick metres and Support Play because he has to be.
We've had 12/13 players playing in the other three spine positions but it's easy to blame the halfback and captain apparently for not doing HIS job.

Jake is in the top 10 for Line Engagements ( DCE is 12th ) and the only forward - apart from hooker - in the Top 30 probably again because he has to.

I know stats don't tell us everything but they tell us a lot, they tell me that these two players are having to carry the can for the rest.
No wonder they are mentally shot.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

This is my take on it also to a certain extent.

More like mentally shot which then affects attitude and intensity and ultimately decision making.
We often hear that the biggest challenge is "getting up" mentally every week and then again and again.
Start the year off with no Fainu, okay, we have the talent and tools to work around that but...
add in the Covid bubble, Turbo out, Walker out, AFB suspensions and injuries ( attitude??) , Marty injuries, Jorge's loss of form and a few others it's got to take it's toll.

The only real constants have been DCE, Jake and Parker (and he's had his share of problems too).
DCE and Jake whilst playing consistent footy have felt the need to take it on themselves (to do) too much, that's their competitive nature, with that they can't be faulted but with mental fatigue comes problems in decision making.

Off the top of my head we've had
Four different fullbacks - all of differing quality and experience
Six different wingers
Lost count of how many centres - even Thommo, Jetski and Waddell have played there
5/8's - at least four, maybe five ( and Schuster looked the best )
Second rowers - six, maybe seven
Hookers - three, again of differing quality and experience
Props - Paseka has finally come good but without AFB and Marty, Keppie and Boyle haven't really set the world on fire.

As you say @jbb/james, the team must understand it's ability so they know things have to go right to get the job done - the frustration at the forward pass call v Parra, the no penalty v the Knights, getting run over by the Knights and the Tigers etc.

Don't want to relive the weekend too much but it seemed that whatever error we made was compounded and once it started it was hard to stop, mentally fatigued as well as physically.
I was saying to my daughter Miski is our 5th choice winger ( at best), Harper and Hoppa got found out and add in Funa they've played less than 20 games between them.
Funa is finding his feet in first grade but in a dozen games he's played three different positions so again mentally, it's a tough ask.

I know there are plenty here calling for more accountability for DCE but he's in the top 5 in the NRL for Try Assists, Line Break Assists, Kicks, Kick metres and Support Play because he has to be.
We've had 12/13 players playing in the other three spine positions but it's easy to blame the halfback and captain apparently for not doing HIS job.

Jake is in the top 10 for Line Engagements ( DCE is 12th ) and the only forward - apart from hooker - in the Top 30 probably again because he has to.

I know stats don't tell us everything but they tell us a lot, they tell me that these two players are having to carry the can for the rest.
No wonder they are mentally shot.

Very sensible and thought out post BUT we can’t have that on Silvertails so you must be losing your marbles ... ( just kidding agree 110%).

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Been saying it for a while, this team lacks leadership. DCE might be Captain by name but he is no leader. We need some strong characters who are prepared to set a standard and hold others to that standard. Running around like a blue arsed fly, all frantic and panicky, trying to get involved in every play isn't leadership. Watmough used to do that, they never made him Captain, but you would never fault Choc's effort.

It seems pretty clear that the first 5 years of our 5 year plan haven't worked, so now we are into the second 5 years of our 5 year plan. Looks like we will be going down the youth path next year, Schuster, Funa, Hoppa, Fainu, Guaca, Cust, Harper, Suli....maybe some others. What this squad really needs is a BK signing - Kennedy or Kite type, doesn't matter. Just someone who will lay down a culture, set a standard, meet that standard and hold others to that standard.

Have thought about the Foran signing and whether that ticks that box ?? Foz could be inspirational, a follow me type leader. He definitely has links to the past core group that was responsible for the culture that gave us a decade of success. Maybe he can resurrect that ??

Otherwise we need to buy someone who can fill that leadership role.

Totally agree

 

[The Right Edge]

Our last premiership 2017 NYC that team contained at various stages in the season, Tevita Funa, Brad Parker, Cade Cust, Taneli Paskea, Haumale Olakau'ate who have played NRL this season. They played against Garrick, Harper and Keppie. Add to that 8 Hopoate and Schuster, Suli Crocker you have a group that were destined to feel the pinch especially in a stop / start season. But remember when we last had a solid group coming through the ranks together, Menzies, Gartner, Kosef, Hopoate et el. must provide hope for a future season.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

And neither would being led by a 1.3 million dollar cat that panicks in attack like an under 12 and rushes in in defence yet still runs these stupid team huddles with him in the centre trying to "set an example" as this great (myth) leader he is!

(sorry this is a rant)

I don't quite understand why this post is receiving any dislikes. What has dce done since the end of 2014 that places him as the protected species he is today? Other than his occasional left-footed field goals. What Choc Watmough mentioned about dce has stuck with me and rings true.

If I squirreled my way into a 1.3 million dollar contract to be a dominant halfback I'd make sure I put in as much effort as he does, no **** sherlock. I hate when people use the effort card to defend dce. But while there's effort of course I wouldn't call it passion, because he wouldn't have signed this contract and had this whole fiasco if he was. He sold his house and was already on the plane to the Gold Coast - before finding out he could hold us to ransom and gain a contract closer to Jonathan Thurston and Andrew Johns combined. He deserves no loyalty or support for what he has done and how he has performed. Yet he will remain here until his contract expires, no one will do anything about it. And when that day comes where he rides off into the sunset we will continue to get dragged through the mud.
______
“I said to him ‘mate, you know what we’ve (the senior playing group) sacrificed to stay together, to be successful.
“Your time will come’ and he just looked me straight in the eye and went ‘nah, not turning up’. So I just went ‘f*** you’.”

Watmough’s falling out with Cherry-Evans began in 2012 the year after the pair won a premiership together.

“He just signed a four-year deal and he didn’t turn up to training,” Watmough explained.
“He said his manager told him not to.
“His idiot manager signed him for five years on no money because nobody thought he was good.
“In the end Geoff Toovey succumbed to the board and he was put on $500,000 after being on $50,000.
“Toovey chose the board and one player over the rest of the players and that’s where he lost me.”
_______

Then dce signed his 1.3 or whatever million dollar contract to be our Jonathan Thurston/Andrew Johns. No matter what 5/8 works with him he has never organised our attack like any other 900K-$1 million halfback does (Cleary, Keary, Thurston, Cronk, or even cheaper options like D. Brown and S. Johnson), yet sells to the media that he is the second coming of ****ing christ. I love the contrast of his little team huddles with his constant whinging to refs and slow play the balls while milking for penalties, his increasingly misjudged defencive reads, his bog-average kicking game and his under-12's attack. People can not be defend dce's performances with his 'effort' or 'heart', he is a selfish, insensitive 5/8 (a halfback's bitch).

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I don't quite understand why this post is receiving any dislikes. What has dce done since the end of 2014 that places him as the protected species he is today? Other than his occasional left-footed field goals. What Choc Watmough mentioned about dce has stuck with me and rings true.

If I squirreled my way into a 1.3 million dollar contract to be a dominant halfback I'd make sure I put in as much effort as he does, no **** sherlock. That's why I hate when people say that dce is one of our most consistent and passionate players. He's not passionate, because he wouldn't have signed this contract and had this whole fiasco if he was. He sold his house and was already on the plane to the Gold Coast. He deserves no loyalty or support for what he has done and how he has performed. Yet he will remain here until his contract expires, no one will do anything about it. And when that day comes where he rides off into the sunset we will continue to get dragged through the mud.
______
“I said to him ‘mate, you know what we’ve (the senior playing group) sacrificed to stay together, to be successful.
“Your time will come’ and he just looked me straight in the eye and went ‘nah, not turning up’. So I just went ‘f*** you’.”

Watmough’s falling out with Cherry-Evans began in 2012 the year after the pair won a premiership together.

“He just signed a four-year deal and he didn’t turn up to training,” Watmough explained.
“He said his manager told him not to.
“His idiot manager signed him for five years on no money because nobody thought he was good.
“In the end Geoff Toovey succumbed to the board and he was put on $500,000 after being on $50,000.
“Toovey chose the board and one player over the rest of the players and that’s where he lost me.”
_______

Then dce signed his 1.3 or whatever million dollar contract to be our Jonathan Thurston/Andrew Johns. No matter what 5/8 works with him he has never organised our attack like any other 900K-$1 million halfback does (Thurston, Cronk, Cleary), yet sells to the media that he is a son of god. I love the contrast his little team huddles with his constant whinging to refs and slow play the balls while milking for a penalty, his increasingly poor defence, his bog-average kicking game and his under-12's attack. People can not be defend dce's performances with his 'effort' or 'heart', he is a selfish, insensitive 5/8 (a halfback's bitch).

Harry a question!

If DCE was on say $750k a year would you have the same thoughts ??

The fact that he’s on 1.3 million was a result of your club backing the wrong horse ( Foran) and then having to pay many overs to retain him.

Don’t let that situation cloud your opinion.

 

[47MVEagle]

I'd take anything Watmough says about the situation with a pinch of salt.

Great player for us but not the sharpest tool in the shed & very obviously dislikes DCE so his opinion can't be taken as objective nor rational.

 

[47MVEagle]

PS - when-a the moon hits-a your eye like a-da big pizza pie, that's MORAL-AY...

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Harry a question!

If DCE was on say $750k a year would you have the same thoughts ??

The fact that he’s on 1.3 million was a result of your club backing the wrong horse ( Foran) and then having to pay many overs to retain him.

Don’t let that situation cloud your opinion.

I think if dce was on 750K it'd be fair and I wouldn't have come down to this perspective (and disrespect) of him.

It's the fact that he is paid nearly double 750K that ****s me off. Looking back, I can't believe the way he held the club to ransom. Compared to what other halfbacks do now and have done in the past he is killing our team. Cleary, Keary, Cronk, Thurston, Foran, D. Brown, Shaun Johnson are genuine halfbacks that, when on the field earn their wages not just in effort, but also in quality (and direction). DCE manipulated the club, assumed leadership and these poor young backline players either look up to him and think it's ok to grab for money or look at him with a bit of disgust like I would and struggle to want to play beside him.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

I'd take anything Watmough says about the situation with a pinch of salt.

Great player for us but not the sharpest tool in the shed & very obviously dislikes DCE so his opinion can't be taken as objective nor rational.

I agree but even Brett Stewart was pissed off with dce, same as toovey who had to bow before dce and let dce drive a dagger into his career and history with the club.

Im not even going to keep talking about dce today it annoys me so much, I ****ing hate greed and hypocrisy and dce is the epitome of both.

 

[StuBoot]

Very sensible and thought out post BUT we can’t have that on Silvertails so you must be losing your marbles ... ( just kidding agree 110%).

@Mark from Brisbane Thanks mate, it annoys me that most look at things so simplistically when it comes to the fabric and performance of a football team and players' performances and expectations..

We've all got our favourites and whipping boys so subjectivity comes second a lot of the time.

I've been around long enough to know that a season can unravel like this one has but next year we all start on zero points again with optimism - hopefully young Schuster in the 6 and a fit Turbo is a good start.

 

[47MVEagle]

I agree but even Brett Stewart was pissed off with dce, same as toovey who had to bow before dce and let dce drive a dagger into his career and history with the club.

Im not even going to keep talking about dce today it annoys me so much, I ****ing hate greed and hypocrisy and dce is the epitome of both.

My understanding of the situation was when DCE was upgraded from his original contract (something like $70k I think), he was pressured by the likes of Watmough to take a haircut on his upgrade so they could keep Gift at the club.

Not sure what the terms of his upgrade were, but having helped win a GF in 2011, I'd expect any young player to look for a contract he believed was his worth.

I can't imagine Watmough would have been particularly reasonable in his approach to DCE & it was apparent DCE was on the outer with the senior playing group at the time.

As history showed us, the NRL refused our $300k contract for Gift as they deemed his market value to be double that so off he went to Souths but broke down through injury soon after.

This all happened before the fiasco with DCE's next contract, which was caused by Foran deliberately screwing the club over. Instrumental in influencing Foran to go to the Eels was Watmough, so anything he claims DCE said about his contract upgrade is pure hypocrisy IMO.

If anyone manipulated the club, it was Foran & by proxy, Watmough.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

My understanding of the situation was when DCE was upgraded from his original contract (something like $70k I think), he was pressured by the likes of Watmough to take a haircut on his upgrade so they could keep Gift at the club.

Not sure what the terms of his upgrade were, but having helped win a GF in 2011, I'd expect any young player to look for a contract he believed was his worth.

I can't imagine Watmough would have been particularly reasonable in his approach to DCE & it was apparent DCE was on the outer with the senior playing group at the time.

As history showed us, the NRL refused our $300k contract for Gift as they deemed his market value to be double that so off he went to Souths but broke down through injury soon after.

This all happened before the fiasco with DCE's next contract, which was caused by Foran deliberately screwing the club over. Instrumental in influencing Foran to go to the Eels was Watmough, so anything he claims DCE said about his contract upgrade is pure hypocrisy IMO.

If anyone manipulated the club, it was Foran & by proxy, Watmough.

It's dce's next contract dilema (titans saga) that I am mostly annoyed about. Even today it is crazy money and we have since found out he is not even a dominant, organising halfback and was living off the direction of foz, stewart and co for years. Foran ****ed us over as well but he was probably angry about the treatment of senior players which I think is fair enough

 

[47MVEagle]

It's dce's next contract dilema (titans saga) that I am mostly annoyed about. Even today it is crazy money and we have since found out he is not even a dominant, organising halfback and was living off the direction of foz, stewart and co for years. Foran ****ed us over as well but he was probably angry about the treatment of senior players which I think is fair enough

But you have to agree that the reason DCE is on the contract he's on is because Foran deliberately screwed over the club?

Regardless of his reason for doing so, he's the reason why we signed DCE on what he's on.

 

[StuBoot]

I think if dce was on 750K it'd be fair and I wouldn't have come down to this perspective (and disrespect) of him.

It's the fact that he is paid nearly double 750K that ****s me off. Looking back, I can't believe the way he held the club to ransom. Compared to what other halfbacks do now and have done in the past he is killing our team. Cleary, Keary, Cronk, Thurston, Foran, D. Brown, Shaun Johnson are genuine halfbacks that, when on the field earn their wages not just in effort, but also in quality (and direction). DCE manipulated the club, assumed leadership and these poor young backline players either look up to him and think it's ok to grab for money or look at him with a bit of disgust like I would and struggle to want to play beside him.

Um?
I get your disdain for DCE but of the examples you quoted...

Shaun Johnson is one of my favourite players but consistency hasn't been his strong suit.
I'm happy with the season he's had, he's had his best season imo, he's carried the Sharks this year.

Thurston was awesome but only led his team to one Premiership in 13 seasons and hasn't really left a legacy there.
Brown has done nothing yet ( and I hope he doesn't)

I'll give you Cleary & Keary - both are on a $1m apparently and they are both worth more to their sides.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

I wonder what the date is where he has to activate his option.

If that is the case, standby for his manager, Mr Warren Orr, to commence the ‘scoping and framing‘ process during the upcoming off season..

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I think if dce was on 750K it'd be fair and I wouldn't have come down to this perspective (and disrespect) of him.

It's the fact that he is paid nearly double 750K that ****s me off. Looking back, I can't believe the way he held the club to ransom. Compared to what other halfbacks do now and have done in the past he is killing our team. Cleary, Keary, Cronk, Thurston, Foran, D. Brown, Shaun Johnson are genuine halfbacks that, when on the field earn their wages not just in effort, but also in quality (and direction). DCE manipulated the club, assumed leadership and these poor young backline players either look up to him and think it's ok to grab for money or look at him with a bit of disgust like I would and struggle to want to play beside him.

No Harry he was signed and had agreed to a contract worth almost that by the Titans , Manly ****ed up and had to offer more to keep him.

Not the players fault, you’d do the same thing.

 

[The Who]

It's dce's next contract dilema (titans saga) that I am mostly annoyed about. Even today it is crazy money and we have since found out he is not even a dominant, organising halfback and was living off the direction of foz, stewart and co for years. Foran ****ed us over as well but he was probably angry about the treatment of senior players which I think is fair enough

Put the blame on whoever negotiated the deal on the club's behalf. Not DCE.
Who wouldn't accept such a generous package?