Matt John's 2008 Melb excuse...

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Well said feathered friend . They cheated and got caught .

Signing two contracts, paper bag deals, hidden sponsorship deals, cash in hand etc etc what difference does it make ?

This is what difference the Storm made ....
The news was referred to by The Age newspaper as "The biggest scandal in Australian sports history as the club was left with "dishonour and shame". No club had ever been stripped of a competition title in 102 years of professional rugby league in Australia. One fan dumped his jerseys and other memorabilia at the team's Carlton headquarters on hearing about the incident, while others simply broke into tears



The Hall of Shame list and the Storm top the lot

1. The Melbourne Storm (NRL 2010)
Unquestionably the king of salary cap penalties, the Melbourne Storm were heavily penalised after the National Rugby League uncovered breaches estimated to be in excess of $1.7million over five years, around $400,000 in 2009 and with a projected breach of $700,000 in 2010. The League also found that the Storm had kept a dual contract system, as well as secret side letters detailing extra payments that were apparently found in the safe of the clubs chief executive.
The Club was stripped of its 2008 and 2009 premierships (these were not awarded to the opposition clubs either), prevented from earning any competition points in 2010, forced to repay 1.1 million in prize money and fined another $500,000.
2. Parramatta Eels (NRL 2016)
In March 2016, it was revealed that the Eels had openly been discussing ways to avoid to subvert the salary cap at board level, prompting a full investigation by the National Rugby League, which later found the club had engaged in systematic cheating of the cap by offering additional payments totaling hundreds of thousands of dollars to players and securing secret third party payments.
The Club was penalised the maximum fine of $1,000,000 (the NRL had earlier offered to suspend $250,000 of the fine, but that changed when it was revealed that planning to undermine the cap had continued up until February this year), stripped of 12 competition points, stripped of its Auckland Nines win at the start of the year, and five officials were deregistered by the league. In addition, the clubs favourable points for and against differential was removed.
3. The Carlton Blues (AFL 2002)
Having had relatively minor breaches of the salary cap in 1994, 1999 and 2001 resulting in varying penalties ranging from $40,000 to $120,000 (and exclusion from the 2000 preseason draft), it was something of a surprise to no one when the Blues were caught red handed in 2002 having paid at least 4 players (Craig Bradley, Stephen O’Reilly, Stephen Silvagni and Fraser Brown), and up to 7 players under the table in previous years.
The AFL commission fined the Carlton football Club $930,000 including $872,424 for current breaches and a further $57,526 remaining from suspended sentences from breaches in 1999. In addition, the club was denied its first two selections in the 2002 National draft, as well as their second and third draft picks – their first pick would be at 45. Further the Blues were penalised the first and second round picks in the 2003 draft, and the 2002 Preseason draft
4. Canterbury Bulldogs (NRL 2002)
The Bulldogs were stripped of points and fined after the National Rugby League found them guilty of systematic breaches of the salary cap totally more than $1 million of the 2001-2002 period.
In response, the league hit back hard, fining the club $500,000 and stripping them of the 37 competition points they’d earned in 2002, relegating them to the bottom of the league ladder with 3 rounds to go, effectively ending the clubs season.
5. The Melbourne Demons (AFL 1999)
In 1999, Melbourne President Joseph Gutnick volunteered information to the Australian Football league that showed salary cap breaches totalling $810,000 between 1995 and 1998.
The League proceeded to fine the club $600,000 (of which $250,000 was suspended), and the club lost its 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks at the national draft for two years.
6. The Adelaide Crows (AFL 2012)
Allegations surfaced in 2012 that Kurt Tippett and the Adelaide Football Club had a secret arrangement that may have involved an extra $200,000 payment and the promise to trade him wherever he wanted to go.
An AFL investigation allegedly found draft tampering, salary cap breaches and implicated the club, senior officials and Kurt Tippet, as well as club sponsor, Balfours.
Adelaide was fined $300,000 and prohibited from the first two rounds of the 2013 draft – something they offered voluntarily early on – and from gaining father-son picks at that draft, however the club could trade back in to the early rounds. Steven Trigg was fined $50,000 and given 12 months suspension, John Reid was given a similar 12 months suspension, and Phil Harper was suspended for 2 months. Kurt Tippertt recieved an 11 match suspension and was not permitted to play in the preseason.
7. The Essendon Bombers (AFL 1996)
In 1996, a joint investigation between the Australian Football League and the Australian Tax Office into Essendons finances found that the club had breached the salary cap by more than $514,000 between 1991 and 1996. The investigation started when the AFL was notified of the existence of a document showing that Mark Harvey had received more than $30,000 in incentives outside of his official contract in 1997.
The Bombers were fined $388,000 for both salary cap breaches and draft tampering and hit with a further $250,000 in back taxes by the ATO. The AFL also stripped Essendon of their first two picks in the 1999 national draft and froze them out of the pre-season and rookie drafts entirely.
First of all that is a shortlist, second don't limit your views based on who has been caught, what you read is nothing compared to the reality.

I would love to go through the "real" financials of Sydney clubs in particular during 2006-2010 would be fun viewing.
 
Melb went to another level because of the pressure applied in terms of fighting off other clubs willing to do the same to purchase their talent, on top of having to pay a premium to players to stick with a club so far away from home.

Maybe from the start (1998), Melbourne should have been working on pathways for Victorian juniors to make it into the local side. Yet in 23 and a half seasons now the Storm have only produced about one local junior for every 5-6 years of their existence.

No other club in the league is afforded that luxury. Hell, even the buy anyone Chooks have local juniors who grew up around Bondi and the eastern suburbs.
 
First of all that is a shortlist, second don't limit your views based on who has been caught, what you read is nothing compared to the reality.

I would love to go through the "real" financials of Sydney clubs in particular during 2006-2010 would be fun viewing.
And the evidence you base this on is...what, the vibe?

I have to say it is irritating to put it mildly to have you, here on the Manly fans site, regularly discounting what may be Manly's greatest ever triumph in 2008, and defending our arch enemy who were proved to be cheating when they beat us 2007.

So can we settle this once and for all?

Have a look at the 2008 GF sides. Not a perfect measure of quality by any means, but nevertheless consider this. Players who either had represented, or were currently, or would go on to do so. As I say not a perfect measure of quality by any means, but quite a valid and reasonable one.

Storm: games for Australia 147 (all figures using my best adding efforts)
Manly: games for Aus 86
Storm: Origin 131
Manly: Origin 76

Storm: Tonga 17
Manly: Tonga 6

Storm: Samoa 2, Manly 0

Storm: 3 x Dally Ms, 3 x Golden Boots (plus Folau who went on to play 73 Tests for the Wallabies)
Manly: 1 x Dally M

Storm: of their GF 17, only 2 never played either Origin or for Australia or NZ

Manly: of ‘our’ GF 17, 4 never played Origin or for Aus or NZ

Poles apart, that's not even close. And that does NOT include Cam Smith, one of the greatest players in history, or Hoffman (6 for Aus, 14 NSW) who both missed that game.

Which shows just how meritorious Manly's record 40-0 victory was, and how fanciful the suggestion it was in some way hollow due to the absence of said Immortal.

Furthermore, your argument that Melbourne's cheating is kind of fine (because everyone was doing it) is shown to be laughable. Because even if that were so (and there is no evidence, merely you detect the vibe), then judging by the quality of the stock they put together it is clear they were doing it on a totally different level.

Which is exactly what the evidence to date shows! And why Storm is reviled for its cheating during those years.

Which is why your attitude to these things is inclined to offend some Manly fans. Just so you can understand.
 
And the evidence you base this on is...what, the vibe?

I have to say it is irritating to put it mildly to have you, here on the Manly fans site, regularly discounting what may be Manly's greatest ever triumph in 2008, and defending our arch enemy who were proved to be cheating when they beat us 2007.

So can we settle this once and for all?

Have a look at the 2008 GF sides. Not a perfect measure of quality by any means, but nevertheless consider this. Players who either had represented, or were currently, or would go on to do so. As I say not a perfect measure of quality by any means, but quite a valid and reasonable one.

Storm: games for Australia 147 (all figures using my best adding efforts)
Manly: games for Aus 86
Storm: Origin 131
Manly: Origin 76

Storm: Tonga 17
Manly: Tonga 6

Storm: Samoa 2, Manly 0

Storm: 3 x Dally Ms, 3 x Golden Boots (plus Folau who went on to play 73 Tests for the Wallabies)
Manly: 1 x Dally M

Storm: of their GF 17, only 2 never played either Origin or for Australia or NZ

Manly: of ‘our’ GF 17, 4 never played Origin or for Aus or NZ

Poles apart, that's not even close. And that does NOT include Cam Smith, one of the greatest players in history, or Hoffman (6 for Aus, 14 NSW) who both missed that game.

Which shows just how meritorious Manly's record 40-0 victory was, and how fanciful the suggestion it was in some way hollow due to the absence of said Immortal.

Furthermore, your argument that Melbourne's cheating is kind of fine (because everyone was doing it) is shown to be laughable. Because even if that were so (and there is no evidence, merely you detect the vibe), then judging by the quality of the stock they put together it is clear they were doing it on a totally different level.

Which is exactly what the evidence to date shows! And why Storm is reviled for its cheating during those years.

Which is why your attitude to these things is inclined to offend some Manly fans. Just so you can understand.
This is a very good summation of how so many of us feel about the events of 2007 an 2008 and the knowledge that our teams win in 2008 is meritorious even more that we beat an illegal team. You cannot re-write history and the stain and legacy of the Drizzle from that era is permanent! They can will a million premierships but they will be for ever tainted for doing what they did and after they were caught showing no remorse for their crimes against the game, that is their history!
 
And the evidence you base this on is...what, the vibe?

I have to say it is irritating to put it mildly to have you, here on the Manly fans site, regularly discounting what may be Manly's greatest ever triumph in 2008, and defending our arch enemy who were proved to be cheating when they beat us 2007.

So can we settle this once and for all?

Have a look at the 2008 GF sides. Not a perfect measure of quality by any means, but nevertheless consider this. Players who either had represented, or were currently, or would go on to do so. As I say not a perfect measure of quality by any means, but quite a valid and reasonable one.

Storm: games for Australia 147 (all figures using my best adding efforts)
Manly: games for Aus 86
Storm: Origin 131
Manly: Origin 76

Storm: Tonga 17
Manly: Tonga 6

Storm: Samoa 2, Manly 0

Storm: 3 x Dally Ms, 3 x Golden Boots (plus Folau who went on to play 73 Tests for the Wallabies)
Manly: 1 x Dally M

Storm: of their GF 17, only 2 never played either Origin or for Australia or NZ

Manly: of ‘our’ GF 17, 4 never played Origin or for Aus or NZ

Poles apart, that's not even close. And that does NOT include Cam Smith, one of the greatest players in history, or Hoffman (6 for Aus, 14 NSW) who both missed that game.

Which shows just how meritorious Manly's record 40-0 victory was, and how fanciful the suggestion it was in some way hollow due to the absence of said Immortal.

Furthermore, your argument that Melbourne's cheating is kind of fine (because everyone was doing it) is shown to be laughable. Because even if that were so (and there is no evidence, merely you detect the vibe), then judging by the quality of the stock they put together it is clear they were doing it on a totally different level.

Which is exactly what the evidence to date shows! And why Storm is reviled for its cheating during those years.

Which is why your attitude to these things is inclined to offend some Manly fans. Just so you can understand.
When our teams winning mate people try and agitate in other ways. I find it hilarious how many of our “fans” on this site disappear when we win. I truly believe there are people on this site that barely support the team and find enjoyment in bagging us when we lose. The responses in this thread are laughable in defence of Melb. I’ve chosen to not even respond. It’s not worth the energy. Well put in your thread tho and to others that have put forward valid responses to the utter tripe sprouted by a certain poster above.
 
And the evidence you base this on is...what, the vibe?

I have to say it is irritating to put it mildly to have you, here on the Manly fans site, regularly discounting what may be Manly's greatest ever triumph in 2008, and defending our arch enemy who were proved to be cheating when they beat us 2007.

So can we settle this once and for all?

Have a look at the 2008 GF sides. Not a perfect measure of quality by any means, but nevertheless consider this. Players who either had represented, or were currently, or would go on to do so. As I say not a perfect measure of quality by any means, but quite a valid and reasonable one.

Storm: games for Australia 147 (all figures using my best adding efforts)
Manly: games for Aus 86
Storm: Origin 131
Manly: Origin 76

Storm: Tonga 17
Manly: Tonga 6

Storm: Samoa 2, Manly 0

Storm: 3 x Dally Ms, 3 x Golden Boots (plus Folau who went on to play 73 Tests for the Wallabies)
Manly: 1 x Dally M

Storm: of their GF 17, only 2 never played either Origin or for Australia or NZ

Manly: of ‘our’ GF 17, 4 never played Origin or for Aus or NZ

Poles apart, that's not even close. And that does NOT include Cam Smith, one of the greatest players in history, or Hoffman (6 for Aus, 14 NSW) who both missed that game.

Which shows just how meritorious Manly's record 40-0 victory was, and how fanciful the suggestion it was in some way hollow due to the absence of said Immortal.

Furthermore, your argument that Melbourne's cheating is kind of fine (because everyone was doing it) is shown to be laughable. Because even if that were so (and there is no evidence, merely you detect the vibe), then judging by the quality of the stock they put together it is clear they were doing it on a totally different level.

Which is exactly what the evidence to date shows! And why Storm is reviled for its cheating during those years.

Which is why your attitude to these things is inclined to offend some Manly fans. Just so you can understand.
Whoa , major post. Big effort mate.
I just hate then because they are arseholes but thanks for giving me more reasons
 
And the evidence you base this on is...what, the vibe?

I have to say it is irritating to put it mildly to have you, here on the Manly fans site, regularly discounting what may be Manly's greatest ever triumph in 2008, and defending our arch enemy who were proved to be cheating when they beat us 2007.

So can we settle this once and for all?

Have a look at the 2008 GF sides. Not a perfect measure of quality by any means, but nevertheless consider this. Players who either had represented, or were currently, or would go on to do so. As I say not a perfect measure of quality by any means, but quite a valid and reasonable one.

Storm: games for Australia 147 (all figures using my best adding efforts)
Manly: games for Aus 86
Storm: Origin 131
Manly: Origin 76

Storm: Tonga 17
Manly: Tonga 6

Storm: Samoa 2, Manly 0

Storm: 3 x Dally Ms, 3 x Golden Boots (plus Folau who went on to play 73 Tests for the Wallabies)
Manly: 1 x Dally M

Storm: of their GF 17, only 2 never played either Origin or for Australia or NZ

Manly: of ‘our’ GF 17, 4 never played Origin or for Aus or NZ

Poles apart, that's not even close. And that does NOT include Cam Smith, one of the greatest players in history, or Hoffman (6 for Aus, 14 NSW) who both missed that game.

Which shows just how meritorious Manly's record 40-0 victory was, and how fanciful the suggestion it was in some way hollow due to the absence of said Immortal.

Furthermore, your argument that Melbourne's cheating is kind of fine (because everyone was doing it) is shown to be laughable. Because even if that were so (and there is no evidence, merely you detect the vibe), then judging by the quality of the stock they put together it is clear they were doing it on a totally different level.

Which is exactly what the evidence to date shows! And why Storm is reviled for its cheating during those years.

Which is why your attitude to these things is inclined to offend some Manly fans. Just so you can understand.
1) You are "almost" just as likely to exceed the cap with less international and rep players due to paying overs to attract the few that are on the market.(many poor performing clubs with seemingly average rosters caught exceeding)
2)Not a vibe at all---mentioned at the time how i felt and there are many clubs since who have exceeded the cap (so that is facts backing up my opinions of the time if you care to read up)
3) All this talk about Melb getting a huge leg up with young talent----give me a break. Maybe Folau and Inglis were guaranteed performers but with most young players it is a gamble(Cronk,Smith,Slater for example) were unwanted for the most part. Also "if" the Storm got a leg up on Folau and Inglis there was no stopping other clubs paying more for either to entice them over if they were "guaranteed future prospects", there is no draft system locking them in as far as i know.
4) Nearly every player in their squad became a household name from within the Melb system---Melb rarely purchased the complete or almost complete product)
5)Manly purchased pretty much developed players during this period Orford,Bell,Kite,Kennedy(at a cheaper price due to age),Lyon,Perry(at a bargain price due to out of form and mostly unwanted) but also developed well through our own systems. Orford, Bell and Kite didn't come cheaply that is for sure.
6) Storm continue to be in the top 4 pretty much every year and still winning GF's, i harped on over and over 12yrs ago that this will continue to be the case---pretty much the Storm can be in the same situation as 2009 again in the future if they said FU to the NRL and didn't want to release their developed talent.
7)I would feel the same way if Manly were forced to let go the Stewarts,Watmough, Matai, DCE,Foran,Menzies,King and Ballin(but we never let go any really other than Watmough when his time was up, G.Stewart when his time was up and only Foran with years left in his career)

To me the Storm are to be admired for the most part, yeah not into the grubby tactics like most here but they just keep pushing on and succeeding no matter what.

Give Melb a break also on "not developing from Vic stocks" that is a long ass haul----AFL in NSW was way more prevalent than League in Victoria with more funds behind it to succeed. It will take a long time but Melb remaining successful in some ways is them doing their part of the job by creating a profile for the game---the NRL needs to help fund the grassroots more but lack the finances to do so at the moment to make a large impact.(well i should say the NRL have mismanaged the finances they have had over the years and could have funded the grass roots in Vic easily from the 90's onwards)
 
1) You are "almost" just as likely to exceed the cap with less international and rep players due to paying overs to attract the few that are on the market.(many poor performing clubs with seemingly average rosters caught exceeding)
2)Not a vibe at all---mentioned at the time how i felt and there are many clubs since who have exceeded the cap (so that is facts backing up my opinions of the time if you care to read up)
3) All this talk about Melb getting a huge leg up with young talent----give me a break. Maybe Folau and Inglis were guaranteed performers but with most young players it is a gamble(Cronk,Smith,Slater for example) were unwanted for the most part. Also "if" the Storm got a leg up on Folau and Inglis there was no stopping other clubs paying more for either to entice them over if they were "guaranteed future prospects", there is no draft system locking them in as far as i know.
4) Nearly every player in their squad became a household name from within the Melb system---Melb rarely purchased the complete or almost complete product)
5)Manly purchased pretty much developed players during this period Orford,Bell,Kite,Kennedy(at a cheaper price due to age),Lyon,Perry(at a bargain price due to out of form and mostly unwanted) but also developed well through our own systems. Orford, Bell and Kite didn't come cheaply that is for sure.
6) Storm continue to be in the top 4 pretty much every year and still winning GF's, i harped on over and over 12yrs ago that this will continue to be the case---pretty much the Storm can be in the same situation as 2009 again in the future if they said FU to the NRL and didn't want to release their developed talent.
7)I would feel the same way if Manly were forced to let go the Stewarts,Watmough, Matai, DCE,Foran,Menzies,King and Ballin(but we never let go any really other than Watmough when his time was up, G.Stewart when his time was up and only Foran with years left in his career)

To me the Storm are to be admired for the most part, yeah not into the grubby tactics like most here but they just keep pushing on and succeeding no matter what.

Give Melb a break also on "not developing from Vic stocks" that is a long ass haul----AFL in NSW was way more prevalent than League in Victoria with more funds behind it to succeed. It will take a long time but Melb remaining successful in some ways is them doing their part of the job by creating a profile for the game---the NRL needs to help fund the grassroots more but lack the finances to do so at the moment to make a large impact.(well i should say the NRL have mismanaged the finances they have had over the years and could have funded the grass roots in Vic easily from the 90's onwards)
Melbourne are in this competition for one reason, and one reason only, and that is, in the hope that with all the success that Melbourne has had over the years, that maybe somewhere down the track ,Victorians may eventually stop referring to our game as "Rugby"
 
Team P W L PD Pts
6 5 1 59 12
6 5 1 20 12
6 4 2 53 10
6 4 2 30 10
7 4 2 25 9
7 4 3 40 8
7 4 3 24 8
7 4 3 -8 8
7 4 3 -18 8
7 3 3 20 7
7 3 4 31 6
7 3 4 17 6
6 2 4 -31 6
7 3 4 -41 6
7 2 5 -29 4
6 1 5 -102 4
6 0 6 -90 2
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