Manase Fainu

[Brisbane Tragic]

Well reading Ryan’s post and mulling over Manse’s character and off field antics, should have raised questions, if you want to build a club with those sort of people, you will no doubt end up with problems, would Melbourne sign him? smith Aside (cam) and they were in need of a 9? I doubt it. They didn’t tolerate Curtis Scott‘s trash either, they let him go and Pete W has it right in his post above, 9 is so important you can’t just have one, you need backup, which is obvious to all (well almost all) we had an awesome one in API and you may say he is better suited to the panthers style of play, 2019 is history and letting api go, yes in hindsight has failed, but I was shattered at the time and still hate thinking about it, still believe it was a bad call and while Manase was playing well in 2019, he was still to prove his worth long term and it would have been far wiser to keep api on until that was well established. Anyway I guess it’s another case of the proof is in the pudding and finally was api to blame for his form and fitness at our club or was it more a symptom our system? He is so much fitter than I ever saw him in our colours, playing greater mins and feeding the black cats huge amounts of energy, the type of energy RM brings to Parra, I‘m not convinced Manase has it or that our club can achieve that type of game speed and consistency with him, it is also to be seen if he can come back and pick up where he left off. I’m not writing him off or putting him down, I hope he comes back and kills it, I also hope someone can get in his head and straighten him up, life dishes up some hard lesson at times, some learn, some don’t, hope he is one of the earlier kind, time will tell, if hasn‘t already thrown it all away.

I am not sure we will see him in Manly colours. Time will tell. Hopefully his version of mistaken identity is correct and they have proof to back that up.

 

[Peter7]

Well reading Ryan’s post and mulling over Manse’s character and off field antics, should have raised questions, if you want to build a club with those sort of people, you will no doubt end up with problems, would Melbourne sign him? smith Aside (cam) and they were in need of a 9? I doubt it. They didn’t tolerate Curtis Scott‘s trash either, they let him go and Pete W has it right in his post above, 9 is so important you can’t just have one, you need backup, which is obvious to all (well almost all) we had an awesome one in API and you may say he is better suited to the panthers style of play, 2019 is history and letting api go, yes in hindsight has failed, but I was shattered at the time and still hate thinking about it, still believe it was a bad call and while Manase was playing well in 2019, he was still to prove his worth long term and it would have been far wiser to keep api on until that was well established. Anyway I guess it’s another case of the proof is in the pudding and finally was api to blame for his form and fitness at our club or was it more a symptom our system? He is so much fitter than I ever saw him in our colours, playing greater mins and feeding the black cats huge amounts of energy, the type of energy RM brings to Parra, I‘m not convinced Manase has it or that our club can achieve that type of game speed and consistency with him, it is also to be seen if he can come back and pick up where he left off. I’m not writing him off or putting him down, I hope he comes back and kills it, I also hope someone can get in his head and straighten him up, life dishes up some hard lesson at times, some learn, some don’t, hope he is one of the earlier kind, time will tell, if hasn‘t already thrown it all away.

I was also upset Api was let go and liked the option of having both guys but I actually thought the club were trying to free up some cap space and sign other players which included a cheaper backup hooker. Just sums up the current management. No plans.
I agree about the fitness. I don't know what is up with our fitness but we look so unfit compared to other sides and it's been like this for a long time.
Even in the last season when Donny was in charge before he left to the Bulldogs we were looking unfit and it looked even worse when Dan Ferris came. Donny has returned once again but it's still looking the same.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Melbourne's ongoing success and ability to keep competing is that they haven't allowed themselves to be locked in a time warp. Their recruitment in really quite modest but their development and retention is first class. Bellamy doesn't put up with poor performance after poor performance he has shown in the past he will drop players who don't perform. Whilst our junior development is looking good at the moment it will mean nada if they all go elsewhere looking for a start in first grade.

 

[Scorpio]

Fainu was outplaying API every week.
He was the main reason we made our run in 2019 as without Tom he was the only spark. He totally revitalised our attack that year. Api had three years where we had one ok year with green at 5/8 and two shockers( 13th and 15th), the main reason being our red zone attack was totally disjointed. Api suits the Penrith side because they have playmakers and strike everywhere and he can relax and do his tackling and individual thing. At Manly more a lot more was required of him and other than great defence he was not really creating like Fainu. We rarely scored a point when he was on the field.

Hindsight is a great thing. Sure it would have been great to keep both but the club had to choose and they chose the player who was in better form and the most upside. The club has made plenty of bad moves but this wasnt one of them.

Agreed. Also Api has been out injured since Round 1 this year, and the Panthers are still at the top of the table, having won every match with the best points differential of any team this season.

The Panthers will be (and are) winning a lot of matches with or without him there. That's no slight on Api but that's how good the Panthers are right now.

 

[Bearfax]

I don't agree with this policy. Never have.

Not that I am condoning any of the acts with which any of which these guys have been charged. My problem is that this circumvents the legal process and assumes guilt rather than innocence.

The personal impact on their lives is disproportionate for unproven charges. It's not like if they're proven guilty they won't pay a heavy price. But that is the job of a legal system; not the governing body of a sport.

I can accept a period of suspension for tarnishing the reputation of the NRL, but you could easily argue that ship has pretty much sailed. Regardless, by the time the legal process plays out, the player has been out of the game for years. What sort of genius came up with this idea ? Oh yeah, Greensnot. Nuff said.

If de Belin is proven innocent, the NRL should be subject to legal action. They just torpedoed the guy's career in a knee jerk reaction. If he's guilty, he can tell his story from jail.

I have maintained, despite the decision by a single High Court judge, that like you, it makes a presumption of guilt before trial, which from my readings is actually constitutionally against the intent of the Act.

Mind you, I can well understand an accusation that relates to something that directly threatens or places a threat against a company or person, but it must be balanced by consideration of restraint of trade or normal lifestyle living that does not threaten directly.

In this case it presents absolutely no threat to on the field play. Its only threat is to the image of the game and sponsorship and unfortunately there are too many in society who prejudge a case without significant knowledge of the events and without the right to make such judgements.

The League and sponsors are running scared of those groups, many using the media to push their ill-founded beliefs. It is a flaw in human nature too well exemplified by the ill-informed populous in the USA over the recent elections and the use of media to promote that misinformation.

Personally I disagree with the no fault policy, but I do understand it.

 

[Sheikheagle]

I had a good chat with AFB down at the gym today he actually comes across as a pretty good bloke and feels bad about our current predicament. Despite the obvious holes in our side he reckons with Tom and a decent hooker we would be winning more than we are losing.

I asked him about Manase and he reckons he is definitely innocent and someone had recently come forward and made a statement to the police that clears Manase. The Cops are stilling looking to take it to trial. With this new development the club went to the NRL to get him cleared to play however they won’t do anything until he has gone to court.

I thanked him for getting injured so he didn’t have to play against us and given he will be out for 10 weeks at least we won’t face him in second round either.

 

[Kevinward777]

I had a good chat with AFB down at the gym today. He actually comes across as a pretty good bloke and feels bad about our current predicament. Despite the obvious holes in our side he reckons with Tom and a decent hooker we would be winning more than we are losing.

I asked him about Manase and he reckons he is definitely innocent and someone had recently come forward and made a statement to the police that clears Manase. The Cops are stilling looking to take it to trial. With this new development the club went to the NRL to get him cleared to play however they won’t do anything until he has gone to court.

I thanked him for getting injured so he didn’t have to play against us and given he will be out for 10 weeks at least we won’t face him in second round either.

Very interesting. Imagine if the club sacked him, and he does get off. They'd be waving bye-bye to Manase's brothers and any other young players who are close to him. The same people who are presently calling for his head would be out of control, screaming about the incompetence of making such a rash decision.

I believe the club acted very wisely in extending the kid when they did. It would appear they also believe Manase's version of the event. The proof is in the fact that they relocated his entire family to the Northern Beaches.

 

[Sheikheagle]

Very interesting. Imagine if the club sacked him, and he does get off. They'd be waving bye-bye to Manase's brothers and any other young players who are close to him. The same people who are presently calling for his head would be out of control, screaming about the incompetence of making such a rash decision.

I believe the club acted very wisely in extending the kid when they did. It would appear they also believe Manase's version of the event. The proof is in the fact that they relocated his entire family to the Northern Beaches.

Despite what the Technical Coach says, AFB feels that Manase will be the best hooker in the game under the new rules. He said that above all Manase has footy smarts and can read the game so well.

 

[Kevinward777]

Despite what the Technical Coach says, AFB feels that Manase will be the best hooker in the game under the new rules. He said that above all Manase has footy smarts and can read the game so well.

Couldn't agree more. We were robbed in 2019 and should have been playing a preliminary final. That was without Turbo and a recognised 5/8. Fainu was huge for us in that run.

 

[frank stokes]

Agreed. Also Api has been out injured since Round 1 this year, and the Panthers are still at the top of the table, having won every match with the best points differential of any team this season.

The Panthers will be (and are) winning a lot of matches with or without him there. That's no slight on Api but that's how good the Panthers are right now.

I mentioned in another thread that I am amazed with how big they are across the park... I mean Suli is supposed to be a big guy but he was dwarfed by Burton and 1-17 they are lean, fast monsters.... with the exception of To'o who is a short, lean, fast monster that goes harder than anyone...

Api would probably be the only other small player, even Luai and Cleary are bloody 6 foot....

Edit: Wikipedia has Burton at 6'3'' and 88kg with Suli at 6'2" and 103kg but Burton looked more than an inch taller when they were side-by-side a couple of weeks ago. Young Matt must carry about 50 of those kgs in his shoulders too cause he is a big wide unit

 

[simon64]

No-one is proved innocent in a case like this. The prosecution can successfully prove their case beyond reasonable doubt, or fail to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Any reasonable doubt, and the jury must find you not guilty. That is not the same as being ‘proven innocent’.

Well assuming that "beyond a reasonable doubt" is a lesser determination than "proven", the decision that that is good enough in such cases was obviously made by members of the legal profession. No ? I'm not a lawyer.

I'm happy to go with their ruling that this is good enough.

 

[frank stokes]

Well assuming that "beyond a reasonable doubt" is a lesser determination than "proven", the decision that that is good enough in such cases was obviously made by members of the legal profession. No ? I'm not a lawyer.

I'm happy to go with their ruling that this is good enough.

He may correct me but I think what SER8 was saying is that you are either "proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" or you are found "not guilty due to reasonable doubt"...

the court does not "prove you innocent beyond a reasonable doubt"...

that's how I read it anyways... and I agree...

 

[The better Robbo]

I had a good chat with AFB down at the gym today he actually comes across as a pretty good bloke and feels bad about our current predicament. Despite the obvious holes in our side he reckons with Tom and a decent hooker we would be winning more than we are losing.

I asked him about Manase and he reckons he is definitely innocent and someone had recently come forward and made a statement to the police that clears Manase. The Cops are stilling looking to take it to trial. With this new development the club went to the NRL to get him cleared to play however they won’t do anything until he has gone to court.

I thanked him for getting injured so he didn’t have to play against us and given he will be out for 10 weeks at least we won’t face him in second round either.

That's very interesting. Hopefully its true! This year is a write off but wouldn't it be nice to start next season with Fainu and Turbo both playing.

 

[Supreme Leader]

I pick Silverwater.

If he is guilty he'd end up at Parklea...serious offence, serious prison.

 

[Supreme Leader]

anyways guys experience tells me it not about the evidence, it about who spins the more believable story, it's like this place.

 

[Loobs]

He may correct me but I think what SER8 was saying is that you are either "proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" or you are found "not guilty due to reasonable doubt"...

the court does not "prove you innocent beyond a reasonable doubt"...

that's how I read it anyways... and I agree...

A good example is Milat's defence. His team was not trying to prove he was innocent, rather that a sibling was also involved, i.e creating enough doubt as to who did what that it couldn't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Ivan committed the murders. Then Ivan got on the stand, made a Freudian slip and ****ed that whole argument up haha

 

[frank stokes]

A good example is Milat's defence. His team was not trying to prove he was innocent, rather that a sibling was also involved, i.e creating enough doubt as to who did what that it couldn't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Ivan committed the murders. Then Ivan got on the stand, made a Freudian slip and ****ed that whole argument up haha

The defence should have given him one instruction... then again, they probably did and old Ivan just thought he was smarter...

 

[HoldenV8]

I had a good chat with AFB down at the gym today he actually comes across as a pretty good bloke and feels bad about our current predicament. Despite the obvious holes in our side he reckons with Tom and a decent hooker we would be winning more than we are losing.

I asked him about Manase and he reckons he is definitely innocent and someone had recently come forward and made a statement to the police that clears Manase. The Cops are stilling looking to take it to trial. With this new development the club went to the NRL to get him cleared to play however they won’t do anything until he has gone to court.

I thanked him for getting injured so he didn’t have to play against us and given he will be out for 10 weeks at least we won’t face him in second round either.

Interesting that players from other clubs, even former Sea Eagles, can see that Croker is no hooker and that not having an actual dummy half in the team each week is hurting us.

Why can't Des see it?

 

[Loobs]

The defence should have given him one instruction... then again, they probably did and old Ivan just thought he was smarter...

There is a good book on Mark Tedeschi's cross that shows how he just hammered poor Ivan into that slip. Good read but its essentially a legal textbook and LexisNexis charges like a wounded bull...

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Well assuming that "beyond a reasonable doubt" is a lesser determination than "proven", the decision that that is good enough in such cases was obviously made by members of the legal profession. No ? I'm not a lawyer.

I'm happy to go with their ruling that this is good enough.

@frank stokes explained it better than me, thanks. It is actually possible to be proven innocent, but that would typically be a case where the only evidence against you is forensic evidence and it turns out it was someone else's DNA 🙂
In this case, from memory, Debelin and his mate admit intercourse but claim consent. It's all about whether some jurors think he might be telling the truth. Doesn't mean any of them have to be convinced he's innocent. This in a nutshell is our time-honoured notion of beyond reasonable doubt.

If he is guilty he'd end up at Parklea...serious offence, serious prison.

Its a prick of a place, privately owned, but in fact Dept of Corrective Services will send you anywhere it suits them in NSW, they have a number of suitable hell-holes, all of them over crowded to the extent of 2 out in a one person cell, 3 out n a 2 person cell, etc.
Don't drink and drive folks 🙂