Major sporting codes [including NRL] to back Voice to parliament

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manlyfan76

There is no A.I. Just better computers
I believe the referendum is in October, and as yet and typical of the Labor Party no detail of what we are signing up to. Would love to vote yes, but something inside me says, it'll be another big waste of tax payer money.
Bigger or smaller than the monies paid to France for no submarines?
 

simon64

It's not a lie, if you believe it.
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Solid no from me.

There are a lot of issues to address. The shortlist for me being:
1. Very little detail from the government. We don't even know what we are really voting for. My concern is that if we change a small but crucial part of legislation, especially at the constitutional level, then there is a flow on effect of unintended constitutional arguments over law in the high court. What is the government, who is trying to sell this, really afraid of telling us?
2. I have a firm belief that every individual should have equal rights. If a person from one ethnicity or another has more access to influencing law making than another person, then this flies against the idea of democracy. One person = one vote.
3. The idea that any legislation is based on race is appalling, and regardless of it's best intentions is inherently racist.
4. With regard to point 3, indigenous communities want to advise the government on creating law for their people. So is it the case that any changes could lead to one law for some, and a different law for others?
5. How do we prove a person's heritage? The bar according to the Mabo decision is pretty low. I'm not really fussed about who would be a representative, but it would matter which constituents whom any laws and motions would affect.
6. How will this voice to parliament actually address the problems which really affect indigenous people? Such as homelessness & poverty? Will the voice magically effect the levels of violence, rape, and child abuse committed on indigenous persons, which are predominantly committed by other indigenous persons? Deaths in custody anyone? They aren't being killed by police or corrections. They are committing suicide. So what do we do? Do we say gaol for some and good behavior bonds for others dependent upon their cultural backgrounds? After all, if we don't imprison them then they can't kill themselves. Is this problem solved?

A voice to parliament will be a great PR exercise, and all of the inner city late drinking people who are about 1/20th of indigenous heritage will feel good. But in reality not one child will be spared being raped, and not one person will be spared domestic violence which runs rampant in our communities.

I just feel that we need to get in and help the problem properly and cut out the PC garbage. The statistics are there to be seen. My view is the quickest most efficient way to help the problem is through getting these people out of poverty. They need jobs and purpose. But we've missed the opportunity with the current generation. We really need to get the kids into school and educated. Set up the next generation for success.

Excellent post Electric Eagle. Well said champion.
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Solid no from me.

There are a lot of issues to address. The shortlist for me being:
1. Very little detail from the government. We don't even know what we are really voting for. My concern is that if we change a small but crucial part of legislation, especially at the constitutional level, then there is a flow on effect of unintended constitutional arguments over law in the high court. What is the government, who is trying to sell this, really afraid of telling us?
2. I have a firm belief that every individual should have equal rights. If a person from one ethnicity or another has more access to influencing law making than another person, then this flies against the idea of democracy. One person = one vote.
3. The idea that any legislation is based on race is appalling, and regardless of it's best intentions is inherently racist.
4. With regard to point 3, indigenous communities want to advise the government on creating law for their people. So is it the case that any changes could lead to one law for some, and a different law for others?
5. How do we prove a person's heritage? The bar according to the Mabo decision is pretty low. I'm not really fussed about who would be a representative, but it would matter which constituents whom any laws and motions would affect.
6. How will this voice to parliament actually address the problems which really affect indigenous people? Such as homelessness & poverty? Will the voice magically effect the levels of violence, rape, and child abuse committed on indigenous persons, which are predominantly committed by other indigenous persons? Deaths in custody anyone? They aren't being killed by police or corrections. They are committing suicide. So what do we do? Do we say gaol for some and good behavior bonds for others dependent upon their cultural backgrounds? After all, if we don't imprison them then they can't kill themselves. Is this problem solved?

A voice to parliament will be a great PR exercise, and all of the inner city late drinking people who are about 1/20th of indigenous heritage will feel good. But in reality not one child will be spared being raped, and not one person will be spared domestic violence which runs rampant in our communities.

I just feel that we need to get in and help the problem properly and cut out the PC garbage. The statistics are there to be seen. My view is the quickest most efficient way to help the problem is through getting these people out of poverty. They need jobs and purpose. But we've missed the opportunity with the current generation. We really need to get the kids into school and educated. Set up the next generation for success.
Exceptionally well put !!
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
Re the voice and info

There is a heap of it around



 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Re the voice and info

There is a heap of it around



Agree heaps, but not much on the ramifications , the cost , who gets chosen and what powers they have.

Labor have been deathly quiet on all this.

Funny that.
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
Agree heaps, but not much on the ramifications , the cost , who gets chosen and what powers they have.

Labor have been deathly quiet on all this.

Funny that.
Mark not worth debating the politics here. I appreciate and understand your view point which is very different to mine.

Good thing about a referendum is that we both get to vote and the majority will rule (also this and the jersey conversations have shown me how difficult it is to discuss topics like them on a place like this)
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Good thing about a referendum is that we both get to vote and the majority will rule (also this and the jersey conversations have shown me how difficult it is to discuss topics like them on a place like this)
Funny how many who say 'keep politics out of sport' are nevertheless keen to give their political views here on a footy site. @:D
 

AlxFromNthNarra

Rarely does big posts worth reading....maybe
Would agree if the question or issue was ..

"do you support the indigenous community "

But the issue here is far more complex than that .. starting with do you want a change to our constitution ...

I don't think decisions should be made based on how many indigenous players you have ..
Thanks Woodsie, as mentioned, staying far away from this one and respect everyone's position on this.

My post talked of 'considerations', nothing more.

I will punctuate that with a postulation: Manly Pride response 2022, but league-wide with a more highly representative demographic.

Hope I made my point.

That is all. Go Manly!
 

Scorpio

Armchair Expert
Funny how many who say 'keep politics out of sport' are nevertheless keen to give their political views here on a footy site. @:D

Out of curiosity... if the NRL used its position and its sphere of influence to, let's say, promote fringe theories... you'd have no problem with that?
 

manlyfan76

There is no A.I. Just better computers
Agree heaps, but not much on the ramifications , the cost , who gets chosen and what powers they have.

Labor have been deathly quiet on all this.

Funny that.
Sports rorts 100's of millions
Car park rorts 100 million
Robot debt billions
French submarines half a billion
Water purchased from a shelf company Angus Taylor owned 80 million.
Scomo making himself minister for everything.
Barnaby's water envoy job $600000 for a couple of text messages.

But yes yes albo is secretive.
 

Budgie

In for the long haul.
2016 Tipping Competitor
Tipping Member
Agree heaps, but not much on the ramifications , the cost , who gets chosen and what powers they have.

Labor have been deathly quiet on all this.

Funny that.
The problem is people don't read. They want to be spoon fed.

The information is there in publicly released documents. Links have even been put on this site a number of times. There are actual source documents but most people prefer to wait for the Tele or Ray Hadley or Sky News to tell them what to (not) think.

Our education system has failed on a massive scale.
 

The Who

Journey Man
Everybody already has a voice; it's called Parliament and there is already an overrepresentation of indigenous members (as a percentage of our population). Plus, I understand there is already 51 organisations/bodies that represent Aborigines.
Isn't it racist to ban all non-aboriginals from eligibility to the so-called Voice?
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
The problem is people don't read. They want to be spoon fed.

The information is there in publicly released documents. Links have even been put on this site a number of times. There are actual source documents but most people prefer to wait for the Tele or Ray Hadley or Sky News to tell them what to (not) think.

Our education system has failed on a massive scale.
Look I disagree a little , I have a fair bit of time ( being retired ) so have read heaps and heaps on it.

Loads of fluff , loads of “ the vibe “ , lots of reasons why we should vote yes but very very little on the really important items.

How’s it exactly going to work.

Who chooses who represents.

And after chosen what are their powers

And what’s the cost , and the aim to reach.

ATSIC was an abject failure and cost billions ( most of it misappropriated and pissed up the wall ).

You know me @Budgie I’m far from a racist , in fact I’ve had 50 of my 68 years living in an aboriginal community and you won’t find a greater supporter of them doing better than me.

But I’m just a huge sceptic of this doing anything other than causing more racial division.

And sorry , but as I’ve said , whilst there loads of information out there , there’s bugger all on the real guts of how it will work and how much the cost is, and I reckon if they keep that hidden it’ll fail.
 

manly al

First Grader
Maybe better to just wait until the final version of any referenda proposal . Not too sure of the merits of major sporting bodies offering public support for general agenda issues . But then all state premiers [ including liberal ] have voiced [ couldn "t resist it ] or canvassed support for at least constitutional recognition at a minimum, plus any number of corporate and business and church organizations as well . Bit of differing views from some indigenous representatives or advocates as well , Then now becoming quite political with this Advance Australia , very conservative organization already pushing for a no vote and again despite the voice being originally a coalition proposal and initiative , Pretty much crab walking back from that position now . Any talk of then progressing to a federal treaty will sink the proposal entirely . Again probably best to just wait and see what the actual and final referendum question and proposal will consist of .
 
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