Lodge, you Monster

[Sheikheagle]

I thought the same thing so I decided to check the figures. They tell a different story:

Cowboys ran for 2,277m from 46 sets = 49.5m per set
Manly ran for 2,016m from 43 sets = 46.88m per set
Not much difference.

If you base the calculation on completed sets:
Cowboys ran for 2,277m from 35 sets = 65.05m per set
Manly ran for 2,016m from 31 sets = 65.03m per set

Quite surprising.

Wow that is surprising. Did it even up a bit in the last 20 mins when brown came on.

 

[LeonardCohen]

I thought the same thing so I decided to check the figures. They tell a different story:

Cowboys ran for 2,277m from 46 sets = 49.5m per set
Manly ran for 2,016m from 43 sets = 46.88m per set
Not much difference.

If you base the calculation on completed sets:
Cowboys ran for 2,277m from 35 sets = 65.05m per set
Manly ran for 2,016m from 31 sets = 65.03m per set

Quite surprising.

I think the stats are a bit misleading because (a) we started strongly and (b) also made a number of line breaks throughout the game (Saab made a big run down the sideline, Koula set up 100m try, DCE and Hoppa combined for that 50m dash, etc.) that count towards run metres. Also, bizarrely, the 100m try that involving Koula and Saab counts as a completed set?!

There was definitely a period in that game where the Cowboys were marching up field and we were in quicksand.

 

[EagleGT]

I think the stats are a bit misleading because (a) we started strongly and (b) also made a number of line breaks throughout the game (Saab made a big run down the sideline, Koula set up 100m try, DCE and Hoppa combined for that 50m dash, etc.) that count towards run metres. Also, bizarrely, the 100m try that involving Koula and Saab counts as a completed set?!

There was definitely a period in that game where the Cowboys were marching up field and we were in quicksand.

Yes, agree. The long runs can certainly distort the picture.

It's the same reason why fullback run metres can be pretty meaningless as they can gain 100m in a match before they even meet a defender.

 

[double hoops]

Id be happy too keep Lodge. players like Brown and Lodge for every game one stars the other might be out. You almost need both of em to get bye. But I suspect given he's only played about 4 games in 18 months it has to impact some numbers. We should have a good understanding of what shape his body is in. So you have to back the clubs call on this one.

 

[Scorpio]

I have NO idea why we re-signed Brown either - for TWO years no less !

Watch the last set of Saturday's match again. Two quick hit-ups for 10 metres each, the second of which had an offload leading to another 10 metre gain. This is after we'd been on the back foot for much of the second half. Brown ran for more metres with the ball than any of our forwards for the entire night so I don't think he is the issue there. He is also not breaking the bank.

Yeah, we could have a cleanout, get rid of all of our forwards, then replace them with smaller more mobile forwards like the Bulldogs. But they haven't won anything yet, and usually a clean out requires a lot of coaching "capital" that only a new coach, or a coach that has zero chance of being removed, has.

 

[349]

Pakeska, Aloli, Brown and Bullemour are a good starting pack with Sipley as a straight replacement for injuries. We really need to think of the reserve grade and try to pick up 3 developing props with the hope that they can come into the side in a year or two. If you have DCE, Turbo, Jake, Holmoly then you are light on cash for forwards. For me we need a back rower as Ben is a great off the bench and can fill Lawton roll next year but does not offer a big impact hitting the ball up.

 

[KNUCKLES]

no to NAS for me - players don't generally improve when they leave the Melbourne Storm.

And he has seen better days.

The guy is only 28. Has been around forever. May just need a change of environment. We should not be sneezing at the prospect of signing someone like big Nelson. I don't think any club would

 

[Andyvb88]

I think we should sign NAS and a decent edge

 

[Heckenberg]

I think we should sign NAS and a decent edge

Aloiai out nas in thanks

 

[jbb/james]

I had a similar discussion with another poster recently. I think that pack was outstanding and I recall many occasions where we rolled through opposition middles but had trouble scoring points. Other than the year we had Blake Green (2017), we really struggled during those seasons where we had a champion pack. DCE had a few pretty ordinary years himself and battled without a genuine foil in the halves. By the time we got Foran, Api and AFB had left and Taupau was a shadow of his former self. Our pack held us back in 2021 from competing against the likes of Souths and Melbourne. We could score points but couldn't go with the opposition packs.

The answer is probably the most obvious one - you need good forwards and good backs, not one or the other. The Eels have had a great pack in recent years and regularly win the middle but their outside backs have been atrocious in defence and have cost them many many games.

We've got a pretty slick backline but I am adamant our forwards are grossly ineffective. I'd call it one of the least effective packs in the NRL. I also think our outside backs are fast but not the best yardage carriers. They did a great job on the weekend but have not been consistent. I think our yardage sets are the single biggest problem with the team at the moment.

When you look at the Dogs, they have been very effective in the middle this season without marquee middles because they have lean forwards with leg speed. It's the way the game is going. They're particularly effective in defence this year because their mobility is allowing them to scramble and shut down scoring opportunities.

Everything you say makes perfect sense but to acquire the grunt we need, we have to offload salary cap

No one is paying us to purchase jurbo at 950 or tommy at 1.1 currently and oku is a keeper. Brooks has 3 more years.

Not sure but it seems koula looks overpaid and maybe we release him, and little hoppa complicates that

One of our biggest recruiting issues has been offloading 500k worth of talent and needing to replace it with 1.5 million.

Foz was the closest we got on 350 and we sent him packing

We are not winning a comp anytime soon and there is no rebuild without cap space. Its just about taking the emotion out of it

Seibs way of signing players for 3 years and elevating them into the aquad in 1 or 2 years is new to us and may help a bit. Its a strategy

Our forwards have been planks for years , but we have played a style of game that doesnt suit them at all which seems crazy. One of the reasons we went well in 21 was tommy but our try scoring had the forwards resting every 6 minutes while garrick converted and we got the ball back. In 21 in both semis the bad guys took early leads but the pack fought back , we gained momentum , and the score wasnt that bad

On both occasions brain poop from Dce killed it. A blindside play to saab who was on the touch line in our own half .

Then after a big walker break on last it goes to chez 10 m out who double pumps, gets caught throws a desperate ball to oku who is forced to grubber. It goes dead , heads drop and intensity drops. Manly done

Just as halfbacks need the forwards , the forwards need the half to cherish the opportunities they create and not splurge them like a drunken sailor

Not trying to turn it into a dce dump but how the half and forwards go are very cloely linked and not at all seperate

 

[Eagle 1]

Everything you say makes perfect sense but to acquire the grunt we need, we have to offload salary cap

No one is paying us to purchase jurbo at 950 or tommy at 1.1 currently and oku is a keeper. Brooks has 3 more years.

Not sure but it seems koula looks overpaid and maybe we release him, and little hoppa complicates that

One of our biggest recruiting issues has been offloading 500k worth of talent and needing to replace it with 1.5 million.

Foz was the closest we got on 350 and we sent him packing

We are not winning a comp anytime soon and there is no rebuild without cap space. Its just about taking the emotion out of it

Seibs way of signing players for 3 years and elevating them into the aquad in 1 or 2 years is new to us and may help a bit. Its a strategy

Our forwards have been planks for years , but we have played a style of game that doesnt suit them at all which seems crazy. One of the reasons we went well in 21 was tommy but our try scoring had the forwards resting every 6 minutes while garrick converted and we got the ball back. In 21 in both semis the bad guys took early leads but the pack fought back , we gained momentum , and the score wasnt that bad

On both occasions brain poop from Dce killed it. A blindside play to saab who was on the touch line in our own half .

Then after a big walker break on last it goes to chez 10 m out who double pumps, gets caught throws a desperate ball to oku who is forced to grubber. It goes dead , heads drop and intensity drops. Manly done

Just as halfbacks need the forwards , the forwards need the half to cherish the opportunities they create and not splurge them like a drunken sailor

Not trying to turn it into a dce dump but how the half and forwards go are very cloely linked and not at all seperate

Your comments makes a lot of sense jbb, although, our big reset will have to wait till Jake, Tom and DCE retire or leave. In the meantime DCE is still playing champagne footy, Jake is still cranking out the tackles and once 100% fit Tom goes ok for that try or try assist or assists.

 

[Ben]

It was pretty damming last week. The cows were consistently making up to 60 metres a set. Whilst we did well to get 30metres on average. It’s been a huge problem for quite a while. I’m still shaking my head on how we managed to win last last week. Our forwards can do it but not on a regular basis.

It’s a small forwards game now. Fast feet and late change of direction leads to quick play the balls. The game is the fastest it’s ever been and we have way too many big boys in the team.
Bully and Brown are perfect but the game is moving past Toff. Paseka is the only big boy we should have in the team

 

[Eagle 1]

It’s a small forwards game now. Fast feet and late change of direction leads to quick play the balls. The game is the fastest it’s ever been and we have way too many big boys in the team.
Bully and Brown are perfect but the game is moving past Toff. Paseka is the only big boy we should have in the team

It is a faster game, but nothing like a big front rower smashing it up skitling opposition forwards and with a quick play the ball, it's priceless. The days of lurching plodding forwards with no leg speed have now been made redundant. The games changed so much over the last 10yrs, it's all about speed and entertainment these days.

 

[double hoops]

It’s a small forwards game now. Fast feet and late change of direction leads to quick play the balls. The game is the fastest it’s ever been and we have way too many big boys in the team.
Bully and Brown are perfect but the game is moving past Toff. Paseka is the only big boy we should have in the team

Agree the game is changing and the style of prop is changing with it.

We need at least one more quicker nimble prop.

I see AOA as the one in danger. Would be on more coin. He has slow leg speed even for a prop.

 

[Ben]

It is a faster game, but nothing like a big front rower smashing it up skitling opposition forwards and with a quick play the ball, it's priceless. The days of lurching plodding forwards with no leg speed have now been made redundant. The games changed so much over the last 10yrs, it's all about speed and entertainment these days.

You can only carry one of those props and my pick has to be Paseka.
Our other big bodies don’t have the side to side mobility to stay relevant in today’s game.

 

[jbb/james]

Your comments makes a lot of sense jbb, although, our big reset will have to wait till Jake, Tom and DCE retire or leave. In the meantime DCE is still playing champagne footy, Jake is still cranking out the tackles and once 100% fit Tom goes ok for that try or try assist or assists.

Geez 2028 to start again. You may be right though,

DCE is having some of his best moments in the jersey

Our best recruits and juniors have nobbled us somewhat. Its such a shame about Tom. He has it all, skill, power, desire, leadership, and cranky. Teams need cranky

 

[Rocky]

It’s a small forwards game now. Fast feet and late change of direction leads to quick play the balls. The game is the fastest it’s ever been and we have way too many big boys in the team.
Bully and Brown are perfect but the game is moving past Toff. Paseka is the only big boy we should have in the team

Agree - think we need to start Jake and Paseka and let the contracts of Sipley, Lodge, Aloiai roll off.

Find a good 13 and some nimble bench forwards to compliment Brown and Bully

 

[MW66]

I think we need young, bustling, agile, diverse, mobile forwards like Leniu, Leota, Martin, Fainu types. We have way too many of the same type of forward. That's why I think we actually look much better when Lawton slips into that backrow spot.

Woods, Lodge, Sipley, James, Condon, B Trbojevic, J Trbojevic, Aloiai, Paseka, Brown are all the lumbering power types of forward. Some of them look like they are running in quicksand (which absolutely is NOT the way the 2024 NRL game is played). Some are probably a tad long in the tooth, or have been injured so much, they are consistently trying to get back to full match fitness.

Come on Recruitment and Retention. Let both Woods / Lodge go. Add James, Condon. With that money get one MODERN today type of forward. I have NO idea why we re-signed Brown either - for TWO years no less !

Anyways - let Dragons pay to rehab Lodge. We are already paying Tom Trbojevic, and now Schuster for the next three years for permanently sitting on the sidelines (or attempting to come back).

Funny that I thought the same re Brown as well when we signed him. However his leg speed is actually very good. Watching him live you can see the energy he brings. Runs hard, hits hard and has a great offload. He is an "effort player". My only concern is that the way he plays re risks being injured regularly but for me. I have gone from a 'hater' to a 'lover'.

Not much to speak of re "young, mobile forwards" in KOE although Navale probably the pick but I am not 100% convinced yet. In JF there is a guy we signed from Parra, Lenaz who always plays with speed and grunt. He is a hooker/lock. No idea if he will make it but he looks determined. Also we have a couple young second rowers in Hayley and Konz who look handy, and as Smolin Joe has said Minuhuai and Mafoa look like promising props.

 

[Eagle 1]

You can only carry one of those props and my pick has to be Paseka.
Our other big bodies don’t have the side to side mobility to stay relevant in today’s game.

Need at least another one like Paseka to come of the bench to keep the roll on. At last, we've unearthed a gem in Navale, would love to see him get a run this Sunday.

 

[Rocky]

The guy is only 28. Has been around forever. May just need a change of environment. We should not be sneezing at the prospect of signing someone like big Nelson. I don't think any club would

I'm just a bit skeptical because which NAS would we actually be getting?

Peak engaged NAS I would welcome in a heartbeat, and pay good money for - say 700k for 3 seasons?

But it is a red flag that he seems to have been in Bellamy's doghouse for at least a year. Doghouse is probably too strong a term but he is clearly a bit out of favour. If the best coach of the modern era thinks that well - that is a strong signal.

Would coming to Manly solve whatever is going on with NAS? I'm not so sure.