lack of a running game at hooker concerns

[Eagle 1]

This is playing out like a broken record....
Yes it would be great to have Harry Grant or Cook....but we got Croker and for now - need to live with it.
There are explosive options off the bench being considered as we again....come back to the same old story.
As for Croker, long as he tackles well, provides accurate swift service to key men and can increase his own threat from the ruck...a little more (which the coaching staff have already addressed)....we have the team to compete against ANY other in 2022.
The ONLY aspect I would like to see improve in 2022 is more direct plays, which does start through the middle, as this is needed to break down those Top sides in the crucial games.

Isn't this already happening Maxta, with DCE, Jake and Tommy probing down the middle looking for runners or going themselves.

 

[maxta]

Isn't this already happening Maxta, with DCE, Jake and Tommy probing down the middle looking for runners or going themselves.

Turbo is arguably the biggest threat in the NRL right through that very ruck mate.
Jake attacks wider between the A and B defenders and more plays the inside ball to attack the ruck....DCE is here, there and everywhere making him unpredictable which can be good when going forward, but often, especially under pressure, plays more lateral imo - too sideways.
The option of a dummy half runner through the middle is seen as essential in the modern game by many and I get the reasoning....but if we can simply win more momentum with direct forward running and quick play the balls, rather than players shuffling into the defence and trying to promote an offload will have a similar effect across the park including softening the middle third....I mean this helter skelter tactic works against the inept sides and we look pretty adding 50+ points with these tactics on many occassions.....but essentially, against the torrid ugly defences, this style produces pressure leading to errors and low percentage plays and often, we look lost and that's when the "where's Tom" comes into it.
In total - Croker with an "improved" running threat will be good enough and the need to compare him to flashy 9's will vanish...

 

[Woodsie]

Froggy doesn't need to be this mythical dynamic hooker I am hearing about .. how many or the 16 1st grade hookers meet that definition..

Apart from good service and excellent defense.. all he needs to be able to do is ask the opposing defense questions.. if he puts the markers in two minds he will have succeeded..

I am 100% convinced all the positive attributes of a hookers game.. kicking, running, service, defense etc will continue to evolve..

In froggy I trust..

 

[Eagle 1]

Turbo is arguably the biggest threat in the NRL right through that very ruck mate.
Jake attacks wider between the A and B defenders and more plays the inside ball to attack the ruck....DCE is here, there and everywhere making him unpredictable which can be good when going forward, but often, especially under pressure, plays more lateral imo - too sideways.
The option of a dummy half runner through the middle is seen as essential in the modern game by many and I get the reasoning....but if we can simply win more momentum with direct forward running and quick play the balls, rather than players shuffling into the defence and trying to promote an offload will have a similar effect across the park including softening the middle third....I mean this helter skelter tactic works against the inept sides and we look pretty adding 50+ points with these tactics on many occassions.....but essentially, against the torrid ugly defences, this style produces pressure leading to errors and low percentage plays and often, we look lost and that's when the "where's Tom" comes into it.
In total - Croker with an "improved" running threat will be good enough and the need to compare him to flashy 9's will vanish...

I take your point on direct plays, aka, dummy half darts putting the defence line in two minds. Should hopefully see a lot more of this from Crocker as the season develops.

 

[Pittwater Legend]

Croker was not a problem for us last season. The big issue was how we consistently folded against the tougher top sides.

Deadset, how quickly did we concede that first try against the Storm in week 1 of the finals…

 

[Eagle 1]

Croker was not a problem for us last season. The big issue was how we consistently folded against the tougher top sides.

Deadset, how quickly did we concede that first try against the Storm in week 1 of the finals…

And how quickly we started making mistakes, constantly shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

[Pittwater Legend]

And how quickly we started making mistakes, constantly shooting ourselves in the foot.

Agree. Completely choked against the Storm then blew away a heavily weakened Roosters outfit. Then went soft again against the Rabbitohs.

Look at last year’s grand final. Literally 2 tough teams belting each other the whole game and by full time, there was little between them

 

[XV-1]

This is playing out like a broken record....
Yes it would be great to have Harry Grant or Cook....but we got Croker and for now - need to live with it.
There are explosive options off the bench being considered as we again....come back to the same old story.
As for Croker, long as he tackles well, provides accurate swift service to key men and can increase his own threat from the ruck...a little more (which the coaching staff have already addressed)....we have the team to compete against ANY other in 2022.
The ONLY aspect I would like to see improve in 2022 is more direct plays, which does start through the middle, as this is needed to break down those Top sides in the crucial games.

Spot on. Croker was not our problem last year, nor was he a game changer.

IMO we need to look at was successful for Des in the past and adapt it to 2022.

Croker needs speed up his ruck passing and have forwards catching it on the adventure line for max go forward. He can run every now and then to keep the markers honest.

We need a Choc like powerhouse runner with really fast leg speed. Although similar size, that is not Lawton.
Haumole or Bullymore need to step up.

If Schuster is going to play in the forwards, he needs to turn into an attacking weapon - ball playing aka Glen Stewart. This makes our team so much more an attacking machine, that doesn't rely on Tommy for everything. We saw some of this mid season b4 Schuster got grassed being a tackling crash dummy.

The forward attacking genuis is Schuster, not Walker with his silky ball skills.

Forwards lose matches, backs win them.

 

[maxta]

Spot on. Croker was not our problem last year, nor was he a game changer.

IMO we need to look at was successful for Des in the past and adapt it to 2022.

Croker needs speed up his ruck passing and have forwards catching it on the adventure line for max go forward. He can run every now and then to keep the markers honest.

We need a Choc like powerhouse runner with really fast leg speed. Although similar size, that is not Lawton.
Haumole or Bullymore need to step up.

If Schuster is going to play in the forwards, he needs to turn into an attacking weapon - ball playing aka Glen Stewart. This makes our team so much more an attacking machine, that doesn't rely on Tommy for everything. We saw some of this mid season b4 Schuster got grassed being a tackling crash dummy.

The forward attacking genuis is Schuster, not Walker with his silky ball skills.

Forwards lose matches, backs win them.

Really well summed up mate

 

[Brookie Bob]

Agree. Completely choked against the Storm then blew away a heavily weakened Roosters outfit. Then went soft again against the Rabbitohs.

Look at last year’s grand final. Literally 2 tough teams belting each other the whole game and by full time, there was little between them

Mental discipline was the difference.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Going against @BOZO's logic i think frog still has a lot of development left in him if required.

Last year was his first year as a the first choice 80 min hooker and he went really well. Of course he will never be a Harry Grant or the like but I still see some major development in his game.

As @maxsaid above Tom is most dangerous around the ruck against slowing forwards so unless you do have a top 2 hooker in the squad let Tommy do his thing and life will be sweet.

 

[NZEaglesFan]

After Friday trial, even if all the players are available, I think we will struggle without a specialist hooker. I know we do not have any other option so I am wondering if James Segeyaro may be in the mix if things do not improve with the current options.

 

[Damien2812]

After Friday trial, even if all the players are available, I think we will struggle without a specialist hooker. I know we do not have any other option so I am wondering if James Segeyaro may be in the mix if things do not improve with the current options.

Depends on how Segeyaro goes at Blacktown but he would add that running game that Manly really need to get to that next level.

 

[Heckenberg]

After Friday trial, even if all the players are available, I think we will struggle without a specialist hooker. I know we do not have any other option so I am wondering if James Segeyaro may be in the mix if things do not improve with the current options.

Croker was obviously trying to run the ball a bit more on Friday but it looked almost forced. we really need a natural 9. Should give gkt a crack

 

[The Who]

Let me pose this question: Was Matt Ballin, one of the club's finest hookers, known for his runs?
I think not.
As long as a hooker is a staunch defender and provides swift service then he fulfils the position's primary duties. Yes, if such a hooker also had a running game it would be a bonus. Ballin, like Froggy, was super fit, tough, always in position and fed his maroon-clad colleagues with enough good ball to contribute to a highly successful team.
Froggy is not our weak link.

 

[Shoe1]

Segeyaro wasn’t even in the dugout at either trial. He would be a million miles away from consideration.

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

Let me pose this question: Was Matt Ballin, one of the club's finest hookers, known for his runs?
I think not.
As long as a hooker is a staunch defender and provides swift service then he fulfils the position's primary duties. Yes, if such a hooker also had a running game it would be a bonus. Ballin, like Froggy, was super fit, tough, always in position and fed his maroon-clad colleagues with enough good ball to contribute to a highly successful team.
Froggy is not our weak link.

Take your point, Who, but Ballin's service from dummy half - both his selection and passing - was usually impeccable. Croker is a long way from that kind of quality. If he gets there, great, but right now he still has a long way to go.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Let me pose this question: Was Matt Ballin, one of the club's finest hookers, known for his runs?
I think not.
As long as a hooker is a staunch defender and provides swift service then he fulfils the position's primary duties. Yes, if such a hooker also had a running game it would be a bonus. Ballin, like Froggy, was super fit, tough, always in position and fed his maroon-clad colleagues with enough good ball to contribute to a highly successful team.
Froggy is not our weak link.

Agreed - he wont let us down

 

[Eagle 1]

Take your point, Who, but Ballin's service from dummy half - both his selection and passing - was usually impeccable. Croker is a long way from that kind of quality. If he gets there, great, but right now he still has a long way to go.

It's his first hit out, so, gota give him a bit of leeway. rd 1 isn't till Thurs week, and he'll know what he needs to work on, it's going to be a big first up challenge for him against the Penrith fwds, but got a feeling froggy will be up to it.