keep politics out of the game

[SeaEagleRock8]

Shaq, Mark Wahlberg, the Inspired Unemployed: Why are these familiar faces appearing in sports betting ads?

Online sports betting is growing rapidly in Australia, but new research suggests this could be linked to a concerning rise in youth gambling.

www.abc.net.au

"We know from our research that young people have a very, very high recall of gambling brands. So for example, they're able to name multiple gambling companies from a very young age. And sometimes we're talking eight, nine, 10 years old," says Samantha Thomas, a public health professor at Deakin University who focuses on gambling.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I am All for inclusiveness, I don't consider that to be a "political" value

I don't doubt you are for it. And I don't think it matters whether we use the word 'political'. Personally I find it helpful to think about who benefits and who loses in any situation, hence why I referred to a broad definitions of 'politics' at the start of the original post.

Definitions of politics usually include ideas such as, the set of activities associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms of power relations among individuals.

My post (immediately above) about gambling advertising in sports - maybe you also don't consider that to be 'political'? Again the word doesn't really matter, but I consider it 'political' just because (like all sponsorships and advertising) it aims to influence people's thoughts and behaviours in some way, and to the relative benefit of some group or other.

 

[BOZO]

The Marketers are not responsible for peoples actions, people have to take personal responsibility over their actions.

The Marketers job is to promote brand awareness and stmulate thought in ones mind increasing the likelihood of consumption or use or purchase of said product.

The fact is
Our clubs marketing strategy was also responsible for the division of our club
No other club took on our clubs exclusive marketing strategy and no other club was divided
OUr clubs marketing strategy stimulated brand awareness and also stimulated division and amongst players and fans

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

The fact is
Our clubs marketing strategy was also responsible for the division of our club
No other club took on our clubs exclusive marketing strategy and no other club was divided
OUr clubs marketing strategy stimulated brand awareness and also stimulated division and amongst players and fans

Not to defend the way this was done at Manly - but you're forgetting the other side of the coin.

At no other club have the players had to think more about their different beliefs and values.
At no other club have they begun understanding each other better as a result.

I've no doubt they all respect each other as players, and now there is potential for a deeper bond than was there before. May not work that way but its definitely possible.

Surely hiding our differences or pretending there aren't any is rarely the best way to go when your aim is a truly cohesive group (as opposed to getting through Xmas lunch without a fight, lol).

 

[Technical Coach]

Do you think men should still be allowed to beat their wives & own slaves?

Should the law still punish adulterers with stoning?

And what does that have to do with how a company or organization discriminated based on ones religion, does that not go against "inclusivity" and "acceptance" and what the promotion is all about.

 

[Technical Coach]

You’re still stuck at the stage of trying to justify what happened with the use of verbal technicalities & whataboutism.

You also once again display your inability to understand a clearly explained point with your comparison of religious beliefs to sexuality.

NEXT.

I fully understand your tokenism and trying to place yourself on the intellectual moral high ground side while describing or viewing the likes of myself as on the "backward, outdated"(which is all relative and how it applies to the individual) please move on side.

I don't believe you really want to "get to the root of the issue so compromise can be reached" because what compromises would you make to the jersey to make it acceptable or more acceptable to the other side. Your viewpoint seems pretty plain and clear, if one doesn't wear the jersey he or she is against inclusivity.

Re Marketing the colours to be about "inclusivity" shows how deceptive the club was and doing a deep google picture search to find more "inclusivity" based logos incorporating a similar colour scheme is really a new pathetic low to see. Ask random people on the streets what the rainbow colour logo signifies/represents and less than 10-15% will reply "its about inclusivity".

Many from the religious or faith side view the colours represent more than just a pride in sexuality standpoint but pride in the culture and lifestyle, supporting people who define themselves as non binary along with promoting sexuality and sex in a too forward lacking modesty and respect for others way like the Mardi Gras.

When the LGTBQ+ plus population didn't have the same rights as others do you not think many progressive religious types who made the ranks to make laws or rule over people made compromises and were flexible with their beliefs for a more equitable society, isn't that already a form of acceptance and inclusivity for the greater good.

What more do you want from a society where everyone has the same rights and is treated equally under the law and is protected by the law.

How about a promotion around a general inclusivity appreciating diversity in society be the focus with it's own colour scheme and logo. In the promotion you can include sexuality as one element and not the focus, have it inclusive of religion, people of colour and other groups who feel alienated or not understood in society.

You could even promote record or even at half time on the field show religious types say Muslims and Jews embracing and getting along, or Christians and people of the LGTBQ+ hugging and showing respect to one another, or players going into schools or the general public to promote awareness and appreciation along with respect for all types.

I'm also against an organization or business pushing it's ideals onto it's employees, one doesn't sign a form on accepting employment stating "whatever views we support you "must" promote".

There is a bigger picture at play here than just sexuality in the eyes of many, to limit this about sexuality is all too convenient for some. I would be taking the exact same stand if religion was being promoted on a jersey or support for Ukraine or Russia was being promoted.

 

[Technical Coach]

Not to defend the way this was done at Manly - but you're forgetting the other side of the coin.

At no other club have the players had to think more about their different beliefs and values.
At no other club have they begun understanding each other better as a result.

I've no doubt they all respect each other as players, and now there is potential for a deeper bond than was there before. May not work that way but its definitely possible.

Surely hiding our differences or pretending there aren't any is rarely the best way to go when your aim is a truly cohesive group (as opposed to getting through Xmas lunch without a fight, lol).

There is no hiding of differences or pretending there aren't any, both sides know the beliefs and views of the other even before the promotion. Out of respect both sides don't push their views or beliefs on each other for the greater good of "getting along" which creates an open free and safe society where we don't have to think the same but appreciate we are different.

 

[Andrew..]

I fully understand your tokenism and trying to place yourself on the intellectual moral high ground side while describing or viewing the likes of myself as on the "backward, outdated"(which is all relative and how it applies to the individual) please move on side.

I don't believe you really want to "get to the root of the issue so compromise can be reached" because what compromises would you make to the jersey to make it acceptable or more acceptable to the other side. Your viewpoint seems pretty plain and clear, if one doesn't wear the jersey he or she is against inclusivity.

Re Marketing the colours to be about "inclusivity" shows how deceptive the club was and doing a deep google picture search to find more "inclusivity" based logos incorporating a similar colour scheme is really a new pathetic low to see. Ask random people on the streets what the rainbow colour logo signifies/represents and less than 10-15% will reply "its about inclusivity".

Many from the religious or faith side view the colours represent more than just a pride in sexuality standpoint but pride in the culture and lifestyle, supporting people who define themselves as non binary along with promoting sexuality and sex in a too forward lacking modesty and respect for others way like the Mardi Gras.

When the LGTBQ+ plus population didn't have the same rights as others do you not think many progressive religious types who made the ranks to make laws or rule over people made compromises and were flexible with their beliefs for a more equitable society, isn't that already a form of acceptance and inclusivity for the greater good.

What more do you want from a society where everyone has the same rights and is treated equally under the law and is protected by the law.

How about a promotion around a general inclusivity appreciating diversity in society be the focus with it's own colour scheme and logo. In the promotion you can include sexuality as one element and not the focus, have it inclusive of religion, people of colour and other groups who feel alienated or not understood in society.

You could even promote record or even at half time on the field show religious types say Muslims and Jews embracing and getting along, or Christians and people of the LGTBQ+ hugging and showing respect to one another, or players going into schools or the general public to promote awareness and appreciation along with respect for all types.

I'm also against an organization or business pushing it's ideals onto it's employees, one doesn't sign a form on accepting employment stating "whatever views we support you "must" promote".

There is a bigger picture at play here than just sexuality in the eyes of many, to limit this about sexuality is all too convenient for some. I would be taking the exact same stand if religion was being promoted on a jersey or support for Ukraine or Russia was being promoted.

I will be interested to see if you and Bozo are so staunch in your denounciation of our indigenous jumper next year.
For the record, Im in favour of the indigenous jumper but I will be awaiting your fervent response. Anything less will certainly tell a story of its own.

 

[Technical Coach]

It has been proven to have been horrendously dangerous to encourage people to smoke cigarettes. Yet for a long time, it was legal.
It's not illegal to say gays are unnatural sinful and disgusting. But it is against NRL policy of inclusiveness (and against rationality when one considers sexuality is not a choice not to mention what consenting adults do in private should be no-one's business).

Is your argument that inclusiveness should not be promoted by sport, because that is unfair on those who don't want everyone welcome?
This discussion has been going on for months but still comes down to this, doesn't it?

Yes inclusiveness should not be promoted by sport along with any ideals or belief systems. The law is used to create a more inclusive society.

Individuals alone or as a group can come together "by choice" to promote what they believe in not your employer pushing you into a corner to promote in what should be a neutral environment for all.

 

[Technical Coach]

I will be interested to see if you and Bozo are so staunch in your denounciation of our indigenous jumper next year.
For the record, Im in favour of the indigenous jumper but I will be awaiting your your fervent response. Anything less will certainly tell a story of its own.

First of all i have never supported such a jumper along with multicultural day but there is no conflict with religion in this instance so what is your point.

Everyone has the right to have a line in the sand moment, where they are flexible up to a point, you make it out as if "you are a hypocrite" if that line exists.

What next are you going to go down the path of "gambling or alcohol sponsorship" to try and corner me into a "got you" moment. Maybe read the bible verses in relation to both for a better understanding.

 

[Andrew..]

Furthermore, if sexuality and skin colour are both inate, then the lack of protestation re the indigenous jumper (by those that don't support the inclusive jumper) can only lead us to one conclusion.

First of all i have never supported such a jumper along with multicultural day but there is no conflict with religion in this instance so what is your point.

Everyone has the right to have a line in the sand moment, where they are flexible up to a point, you make it out as if "you are a hypocrite" if that line exists.

What next are you going to go down the path of "gambling or alcohol sponsorship" to try and corner me into a "got you" moment. Maybe read the bible verses in relation to both for a better understanding.

I'm certainly not trying to corner you, I just think it is insightful that you chose to draw your line in the sand on this particular jumper when we've had 12 indigenous jumpers already and I can't recall you ever having made comment on any of them.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

What more do you want from a society where everyone has the same rights and is treated equally under the law and is protected by the law.

Homophobia is an issue in the game, just as attitudes to women have been for a long time. In recent years the game is trying hard to change the attitudes to women.
TC it is rather lazy arguing to say the law protects everyone so what's the problem. You may be aware of the horrendous DV stats in this country - even though domestic violence is against the law, it's still a huge issue.

Yes inclusiveness should not be promoted by sport along with any ideals or belief systems.

Yes sport should only promote betting with mates and drinking alcohol.

The law is used to create a more inclusive society.

Ok now I am all but speechless. If you think social change is ever driven by members of parliament passing laws - then one of us has things totally upside down!

 

[Technical Coach]

Furthermore, if sexuality and skin colour are both inate, then the lack of protestation re the indigenous jumper (by those that don't support the inclusive jumper) can only lead us to one conclusion.

I'm certainly not trying to corner you, I just think it is insightful that you chose to draw your line in the sand on this particular jumper when we've had 12 indigenous jumpers already and I can't recall you ever having made comment on any of them.

While i don't agree with promoting Multiculturalism or Indigenous rounds it's more a case of feeling indifferent towards the promotions, you make people feel different by highlighting the differences and it is more about tokenism "we understand what you are going through for one day" promotions.

Also there is no clash with religious beliefs in any way shape or form so there is nothing really to mull over and consider other than my own general opinions that such promotions are pathetic and pretty much pointless.

And lets be clear before another poster makes up crap saying i made racist remarks (from two posters) that can't provide one link that shows this other than some clutching at straws comments i made about tattoos in general or the genetic benefits of Mauris over whites, my background would come under the "in favour of multiculturalism" banner so i am not "antimulticulturalism" or however people here would prefer to phrase it.

The gay pride jersey is not just about the sexuality clash with religious beliefs that people of faith have to wrestle with(and shouldn't have to even think about while supporting a club or working for a company or organization) it's about the culture, lifestyle and belief system in terms of the binary movement, along with the overt sexual ways it is promoted like Mardi Gras.

Religion to many is about modesty and not overly promoting sexuality or sex, making it a focus goes against this mindset.

Religious beliefs are not pushed on supporters or players to promote or to consider when part of a sports club or working for a company so why should sexuality be pushed on the players or supporter base, we just want to escape the differences in society and enjoy the entertaiment of following a club with all types Gay,Straight,White,Black,Religion or Nation one comes from.

 

[Technical Coach]

Homophobia is an issue in the game, just as attitudes to women have been for a long time. In recent years the game is trying hard to change the attitudes to women.
TC it is rather lazy arguing to say the law protects everyone so what's the problem. You may be aware of the horrendous DV stats in this country - even though domestic violence is against the law, it's still a huge issue.


Yes sport should only promote betting with mates and drinking alcohol.


Ok now I am all but speechless. If you think social change is ever driven by members of parliament passing laws - then one of us has things totally upside down!

So what do you think this promotion is going to achieve for whatever undisclosed "issue" that still exists. If the club feels so strongly about this why be deceptive in the marketing of gay pride under the general "inclusivity" banner, you don't create positive change through deceptive practices/wordplay or warrant respect or consideration for your views when you don't even have the balls to say what the promotion is all about.

If Aussie culture and it's high domestic violence and alcohol abuse rates require "promotions" to turn the tide it says a lot about our weak us family culture. Are the rates even improving at all i wonder with the heavy promotion.

Depression and help lines are promoted like crazy in Western Countries and all it does is glamourize the condition and gives people something to be defined by instead of taking responsibility for their actions and happiness.

I never said social change is "driven by members of parliament" i said that in the past when the LGTBQ community didn't have the same rights i'm sure there were people of a religious background in law making positions or of influence who embraced acceptance and progressive thoughts which shows people of religion make "compromises" for the greater good.

To me the greater good in this instance is not pushing ideals and agendas onto people to share the same views, we should all act respectfully towards one another while retaining our own views and belief systems.

Ones views, beliefs, sexuality or religion etc should not be pushed out of people in the workplace or sports club or organization, we keep our differences to ourselves and work together for a common goal.

 

[Eagles4Life]

While i don't agree with promoting Multiculturalism or Indigenous rounds it's more a case of feeling indifferent towards the promotions, you make people feel different by highlighting the differences and it is more about tokenism "we understand what you are going through for one day" promotions.

Also there is no clash with religious beliefs in any way shape or form so there is nothing really to mull over and consider other than my own general opinions that such promotions are pathetic and pretty much pointless.

And lets be clear before another poster makes up crap saying i made racist remarks (from two posters) that can't provide one link that shows this other than some clutching at straws comments i made about tattoos in general or the genetic benefits of Mauris over whites, my background would come under the "in favour of multiculturalism" banner so i am not "antimulticulturalism" or however people here would prefer to phrase it.

The gay pride jersey is not just about the sexuality clash with religious beliefs that people of faith have to wrestle with(and shouldn't have to even think about while supporting a club or working for a company or organization) it's about the culture, lifestyle and belief system in terms of the binary movement, along with the overt sexual ways it is promoted like Mardi Gras.

Religion to many is about modesty and not overly promoting sexuality or sex, making it a focus goes against this mindset.

Religious beliefs are not pushed on supporters or players to promote or to consider when part of a sports club or working for a company so why should sexuality be pushed on the players or supporter base, we just want to escape the differences in society and enjoy the entertaiment of following a club with all types Gay,Straight,White,Black,Religion or Nation one comes from.

Let's be clear @Technical Coach, about what was said by me about the "recurring underlying themes in your posts which are clearly bigoted, misogynistic, antifeminist, homophobic and racist. Multiple posters have called you out many times over many years about these recurring themes. I go on to say that "there are so many examples of the above that it's unnecessary to post examples". However, a quick study of your posts will bear that out. Please also attempt to process what a "recurring UNDERLYING theme actually means.

It's apparent that you struggle with modern-day progressive ideas emphasising sexual and racial equality and minority rights. Please let us know what modern-day progressive ideas you embrace, if any? Honestly, I don't expect an answer to this question, as your pattern is to skate around topics that don't suit your personal narrative. (Please see below)

On another note (completely unrelated), did you attempt to pass yourself off as an assistant NRL coach on Silvertails? @Top End Eagle et al. reference this. That tells me much more about you than any further dribble-speak you might come up with in rebuttal.

So this response demonstrates your capacity to ignore the core elements of a post, because they do not suit your inner narrative of yourself. Often your words are well chosen to elicit specific responses around controversial societal issues. However, this is also an extremely common technique utilised in online argument by persons who espouse a similar flawed worldview to yourself. These individuals are often found in the "Manosphere", and no doubt some of your concepts are "borrowed" from online discussion in these forums.

I would actually say that your utilisation of this technique is fundamental to disguising the recurring underlying themes in your posts which are clearly bigoted, misogynistic, antifeminist, homophobic and racist. There are so many examples of the above that it's unnecessary to post examples. A good read of your posts on SSM from 2017 would be quite illuminating for any posters on here that have any interest in further studying your rather unique dribble-speak.

 

[Red Pill]

 

[Seagles68]

So what do you think this promotion is going to achieve for whatever undisclosed "issue" that still exists. If the club feels so strongly about this why be deceptive in the marketing of gay pride under the general "inclusivity" banner, you don't create positive change through deceptive practices/wordplay or warrant respect or consideration for your views when you don't even have the balls to say what the promotion is all about.

If Aussie culture and it's high domestic violence and alcohol abuse rates require "promotions" to turn the tide it says a lot about our weak us family culture. Are the rates even improving at all i wonder with the heavy promotion.

Depression and help lines are promoted like crazy in Western Countries and all it does is glamourize the condition and gives people something to be defined by instead of taking responsibility for their actions and happiness.

I never said social change is "driven by members of parliament" i said that in the past when the LGTBQ community didn't have the same rights i'm sure there were people of a religious background in law making positions or of influence who embraced acceptance and progressive thoughts which shows people of religion make "compromises" for the greater good.

To me the greater good in this instance is not pushing ideals and agendas onto people to share the same views, we should all act respectfully towards one another while retaining our own views and belief systems.

Ones views, beliefs, sexuality or religion etc should not be pushed out of people in the workplace or sports club or organization, we keep our differences to ourselves and work together for a common goal.

TC - Whilst this issue has gone on a long time now and the back forward seems endless (and yet I still pop my head in to watch) and I'm reluctant to add my 2 cents (coz who has 2 cents anymore anyway??) but I do have to pull you up on this - "Depression and help lines are promoted like crazy in Western Countries and all it does is glamourize the condition and gives people something to be defined by instead of taking responsibility for their actions and happiness". I volunteer with Lifeline and I don't even know where to start with that. There is nothing glamourous about the people that seek help for all sorts of reasons. Some mentioned in this thread. Many leading to thoughts of self harm (and sadly, follow through on those thoughts). I was going to say your comment can only be based on ignorance but that would be rude and I don't like to do that. So I would just suggest a rethink on making such a sweeping statement without fully understanding (seemingly) the good that these "helplines" actually do. That's all.

 

[NREagle]

TC - Whilst this issue has gone on a long time now and the back forward seems endless (and yet I still pop my head in to watch) and I'm reluctant to add my 2 cents (coz who has 2 cents anymore anyway??) but I do have to pull you up on this - "Depression and help lines are promoted like crazy in Western Countries and all it does is glamourize the condition and gives people something to be defined by instead of taking responsibility for their actions and happiness". I volunteer with Lifeline and I don't even know where to start with that. There is nothing glamourous about the people that seek help for all sorts of reasons. Some mentioned in this thread. Many leading to thoughts of self harm (and sadly, follow through on those thoughts). I was going to say your comment can only be based on ignorance but that would be rude and I don't like to do that. So I would just suggest a rethink on making such a sweeping statement without fully understanding (seemingly) the good that these "helplines" actually do. That's all.

Agree. Someone very dear to me struggles with it (was hospitalised for months) and glamorous is so far from the reality I've lived trying to support them and keep everything going whilst they struggle. Lifeline was a godsend for me.

 

[Budgie]

TC - Whilst this issue has gone on a long time now and the back forward seems endless (and yet I still pop my head in to watch) and I'm reluctant to add my 2 cents (coz who has 2 cents anymore anyway??) but I do have to pull you up on this - "Depression and help lines are promoted like crazy in Western Countries and all it does is glamourize the condition and gives people something to be defined by instead of taking responsibility for their actions and happiness". I volunteer with Lifeline and I don't even know where to start with that. There is nothing glamourous about the people that seek help for all sorts of reasons. Some mentioned in this thread. Many leading to thoughts of self harm (and sadly, follow through on those thoughts). I was going to say your comment can only be based on ignorance but that would be rude and I don't like to do that. So I would just suggest a rethink on making such a sweeping statement without fully understanding (seemingly) the good that these "helplines" actually do. That's all.

Don't get him started on this. He fervently believes that depression is a matter of taking responsibility for yourself and anti depressants are a joke.
This man would be very dangerous around anyone suffering from depression, women facing DV, and anyone struggling with their sexuality.

 

[Technical Coach]

Furthermore, if sexuality and skin colour are both inate, then the lack of protestation re the indigenous jumper (by those that don't support the inclusive jumper) can only lead us to one conclusion.

I'm certainly not trying to corner you, I just think it is insightful that you chose to draw your line in the sand on this particular jumper when we've had 12 indigenous jumpers already and I can't recall you ever having made comment on any of them.

Let's be clear @Technical Coach, about what was said by me about the "recurring underlying themes in your posts which are clearly bigoted, misogynistic, antifeminist, homophobic and racist. Multiple posters have called you out many times over many years about these recurring themes. I go on to say that "there are so many examples of the above that it's unnecessary to post examples". However, a quick study of your posts will bear that out. Please also attempt to process what a "recurring UNDERLYING theme actually means.

It's apparent that you struggle with modern-day progressive ideas emphasising sexual and racial equality and minority rights. Please let us know what modern-day progressive ideas you embrace, if any? Honestly, I don't expect an answer to this question, as your pattern is to skate around topics that don't suit your personal narrative. (Please see below)

On another note (completely unrelated), did you attempt to pass yourself off as an assistant NRL coach on Silvertails? @Top End Eagle et al. reference this. That tells me much more about you than any further dribble-speak you might come up with in rebuttal.

Don’t forget to take a lonely selfie while there is still some light shining down the deep hole you keep digging yourself in, might be an improvement on the lonely beach selfie that looks like the first rays of light your wrinkle free skin has been exposed to in a few decades.Maybe some Vitamin D supplements will help with the mood swings. (you made it personal so take it like a man or a simp whichever one you associate with)

1) You couldn’t find anything remotely racist in my comments just like SER8 unless you massage the content looking for confirmation bias, please show me a clearly racist comment I have made.

2) Does a “clearly” anti-feminist person in your eyes pull up a particular poster here on several occasions for being one dimensional and over sexualizing women in an objectifying way.

3)Does a “clearly” misogynist person show support for solo female sporting athletes(which I’ve mentioned here) along with my personal views that i rate many female sporting hosts as better than men in a variety of sports.

4)You made yourself look like a royal tosser clutching at straws with the Reubens link, when I explained the context, the time line of responses and the underlying "taking the piss" of the thread along with the happy ending(no hands were used I promise) I almost shed a tear for you, but then laughter overcame me and the tears came flooding out in ample supply.

4)Context about the Assistant Coach pisstake. In the early days of this site, One Eyed Eagle and the Official Site forums my style of technical analysis contributions was quite different to the average poster and long winded also(aka defined as dribble in these parts back then also), with time caps and explaining of lines and structures.

Some posters took me as overly negative and a party pooper, that I would pick at flaws even when the team was performing well at or near the top of the table, that I would downplay the long term effectiveness of structures that were still working and saying they need to be addressed. From pretty much day dot I mentioned the flaws in DCE’s game for example when Manly were in the top 2(not some hindsight safe analysis when things are going bad years later) there is a long list of analysis made before the fact, I put myself out there for ridicule by seeing the level of performance completely different to others.

Some posters would call me a dribbler and that I had an axe to grind, that maybe I was a budding assistant coach or former head coach, some posters for fun or the feeling of having delusional predicting super powers even suggested names of who I might be well before I played up to the role. For a while I laughed it off, brushed it off then eventually just played along for shytes and giggles. I think I even invited a few posters for a book signing lol----clearly anyone with half a brain could see the fun in it. There was no initial promoting of myself as such or even directly “labelling myself as an Assistant Coach of a first grade NRL team”.

I most certainly don’t need to big up myself, if that is or was the case I would of named drop pathetically like many here years ago----- well probably because I’m a nobody right and would have to make up names.(now I’m even providing your replies to speed up the to and fro around here)

You come across as book smart and well read with no idea how to apply your knowledge in the real world, maybe that is why you are a Simp who crawls up the A$$ of a Budgie for validation.