Kapow...and the future

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Your argument is flawed in that you seem to think the presence of one excludes the existance of the other .... the fact remains that given two players of equal ability and pride in personal performance ... the one that buys into team, colours, glory and something bigger than themselves will always prevail .... they are on a mission ...

I repeat .... your comment that team pride is a facade may seem a reasonable notion in a technical manual .... but it ain't a philosophy that will bring too much success in a dressing room ...
Team pride exists no doubt but what i am saying is that this element is over- promoted and over hyped. What is more important is hardened, disciplined, honest with themselves individuals who tend to gravitate to like minded people to form a very strong collective team unit of mutual respect.
 
Team pride exists no doubt but what i am saying is that this element is over- promoted and over hyped. What is more important is hardened, disciplined, honest with themselves individuals who tend to gravitate to like minded people to form a very strong collective team unit of mutual respect.
A la Melbourne storm
 
Team pride exists no doubt but what i am saying is that this element is over- promoted and over hyped. What is more important is hardened, disciplined, honest with themselves individuals who tend to gravitate to like minded people to form a very strong collective team unit of mutual respect.

Keep massaging and manipulating what you said .... and you will have almost gone 180 degrees ....
 
A la Melbourne storm
Not saying the Melb method of personal accountability and pride in ones performance/roles in the team is the only way forward, but it is a damn good platform to start from to offer consistency in performance.

Yes team pride and other external motivational factors help but they should be secondary/enhance your true core motivations.
 
Keep massaging and manipulating what you said .... and you will have almost gone 180 degrees ....
Yeah right, you just don't get it and that is why leaders of countries can brainwash the simplistic masses into doing their dirty work---they know most people take the easiest path which is using external factors to motivate or give focus/purpose to an individual.

Happiness and motivation should always "first" come from within not through idols, colours or misplaced pride.

You represent yourself in the best possible way, the company/club is a reflection of that not the other way around.

A good company or club recruits people/players who fit along these lines or they early on think they can instill such hardened disciplined ways.

It is why Melb really drills this factor early on in recruitment---even placing new young recruits in an everyday job to see if they can be moulded (at worse) or already have a hardened core that fits with "their culture"
 
You know...I had a moment during the game today where I compared us to the Storm. Everyone was just...doing their job, and doing it incredibly well! Just like the Storm. But better, ‘cos we’re not eff-wits...

Mate that again is the Des effect. Back in the 07 -11 years we and the Storm were the benchmark
 
Yeah right, you just don't get it and that is why leaders of countries can brainwash the simplistic masses into doing their dirty work---they know most people take the easiest path which is using external factors to motivate or give focus/purpose to an individual.

Happiness and motivation should always "first" come from within not through idols, colours or misplaced pride.

You represent yourself in the best possible way, the company/club is a reflection of that not the other way around.

A good company or club recruits people/players who fit along these lines or they early on think they can instill such hardened disciplined ways.

It is why Melb really drills this factor early on in recruitment---even placing new young recruits in an everyday job to see if they can be moulded (at worse) or already have a hardened core that fits with "their culture"

Please try and stay rational ... no need to talk about world domination before your mum brings you your dinner ....

You must of missed my comments in my earlier reply. I will repeat them ..... the drive of personal pride and the drive of pride in team and colours ... wait for it ..... are not mutually exclusive. In fact I would go so far as to say very few, very very few footballers get to FG level without a great deat of personal pride in performance ...

Those that also buy into a pride in team and colours, a culture of belonging, mateship, shared adversary and shared glory ... a culture if you like ..... are worth twice as much as those that don't .....
 
For me as long as a player believes in what the coach is doing is correct and has their back(loyalty etc....) and has trust in their teamates to do their job well,I personally don't give a rats what their motivation is as long as it is not causing disharmony among the playing group(if a team is not winning then that belief obviously erodes).Players who are confident in their environment will thrive,just like any workforce.Marty Bella was a perfect example of that,he was a bit of a goose(taping players car keys together and thinking it was hilarious etc..),but you could trust him to do his job every single game,he may not have been his teamates cup of tea,but they knew he was going to perform every week.If a coach can tap into playing for a club/colours and it appeals to some then great,but to expect every individual to buy into it is probably a bit optimistic...
 
Please try and stay rational ... no need to talk about world domination before your mum brings you your dinner ....

You must of missed my comments in my earlier reply. I will repeat them ..... the drive of personal pride and the drive of pride in team and colours ... wait for it ..... are not mutually exclusive. In fact I would go so far as to say very few, very very few footballers get to FG level without a great deat of personal pride in performance ...

Those that also buy into a pride in team and colours, a culture of belonging, mateship, shared adversary and shared glory ... a culture if you like ..... are worth twice as much as those that don't .....
You are the one who started with talking about leaders of countries rallying a population to fight for a bigger cause, i just gave you a contrasting view on the subject matter you pathetically added to the chat.

I never said they are mutually exclusive, i said one side of the coin is over hyped.

It's more about personal accountability and achieving markers which warrant respect from the rest of the playing group that you are doing your job, no-one wants to be the player seen as the one not putting in or cutting corners, that is what kills team pride so so easily, each player has to push the other player on leading to a better team effort.

Humans tend to take the easiest path, deflecting from personal accountability and sprinkling accountability over a greater number of people or under a promoted tokenism banner.

The markers Melb use to show performance is up to par are very tailored to Bellamy's work ethic and were ahead of it's time when he implemented them back in the day such as----

Players pushing up with the lead runner as an option, rated more highly after a long defensive workload.

Running straight lines with genuine intensity not just labouring up without purpose.

Even defensively moving laterally without even affecting a tackle or anywhere near the play but closing up the space is a key indicator.

Hasler does the same with his own markers with scale scores but was a little behind Bellamy in implementing them, Hasler probably goes too far with scope of numbers/indicators to the point of losing focus on the key factors of performance.

What i am trying to say is coaches target key responsibility and accountability more than anything else.

Against Newcastle Manly's sharpness and players pushing up in numbers during go forward sets really dropped off after the 20th minute onwards as the defensive workload increased from errors and penalties. Too much one out plays lacking any numbers, lateral play under fatigue was suffering and it was creating a hole that was getting bigger and bigger.

Then at 26-18 a big team huddle with a lame ass team talk about getting on top of things then what happens, a silly high short kick off and a lazy arm bringing Manly down to 12 men---team pride and team huddles mean nothing most of the time.
 
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You are the one who started with talking about leaders of countries rallying a population to fight for a bigger cause, i just gave you a contrasting view on the subject matter you pathetically added to the chat.

I never said they are mutually exclusive, i said one side of the coin is over hyped.

It's more about personal accountability and achieving markers which warrant respect from the rest of the playing group that you are doing your job, no-one wants to be the player seen as the one not putting in or cutting corners, that is what kills team pride so so easily, each player has to push the other player on leading to a better team effort.

Humans tend to take the easiest path, deflecting from personal accountability and sprinkling accountability over a greater number of people or under a promoted tokenism banner.

The markers Melb use to show performance is up to par are very tailored to Bellamy's work ethic and were ahead of it's time when he implemented them back in the day such as----

Players pushing up with the lead runner as an option, rated more highly after a long defensive workload.

Running straight lines with genuine intensity not just labouring up without purpose.

Even defensively moving laterally without even affecting a tackle or anywhere near the play but closing up the space is a key indicator.

Hasler does the same with his own markers with scale scores but was a little behind Bellamy in implementing them, Hasler probably goes too far with scope of numbers/indicators to the point of losing focus on the key factors of performance.

What i am trying to say is coaches target key responsibility and accountability more than anything else.

Against Newcastle Manly's sharpness and players pushing up in numbers during go forward sets really dropped off after the 20th minute onwards as the defensive workload increased from errors and penalties. Too much one out plays lacking any numbers, lateral play under fatigue was suffering and it was creating a hole that was getting bigger and bigger.

Then at 26-18 a big team huddle with a lame ass team talk about getting on top of things then what happens, a silly high short kick off and a lazy arm bringing Manly down to 12 men---team pride and team huddles mean nothing most of the time.

Good lord ... the amazing lengths of technical dribble you will type just to save yourself from saying .... yes Woodsie .... you are correct, both attributes are not mutually exclusive and a player with both is prefarable to a player with only one .....

... and please, no need to copy and paste the chapter on fullback counter attack methods to further deflect ......
 
Big Marty and AFB are definitely both long term keepers. We have a big engine with both of them on the field and they inspire the remaining forwards and provide a terrific platform for DCE and our backs.
 
Just adding a further element to this...watching the Blacktown game vs the Knights on the weekend (and we were the better side, and should have won it)...was that possibly the biggest forward pack ever assembled??

Paseka - 6'7" and 120kg
Boyle - listed at 6'4" but seemed a lot taller than Perrett who is apparently the same height (they stood next to each other at one stage). Say 6'5" and 111kg.
Perrett - 6'4" and 116kg (looks heavier TBH).
Keppie - 6'5" and 110kg
Haumole Olaka'atu - not sure but 6'4" at least, possibly taller (Boyle also looked taller than him) and I'd say 110kg.
Denzal Tonise - 110kg

Kurt de Luis and Andy Saunders aren't small either. If some of these guys keep making progress...which I think they will...we will have a hell of a big, brutish forward pack soon.

Olakau'atu looked like a great defender, some of those low, driving tackles really belied his height. Plus he has speed and skills. Definitely one to watch. So yeah...the future looks bright!
 
Good lord ... the amazing lengths of technical dribble you will type just to save yourself from saying .... yes Woodsie .... you are correct, both attributes are not mutually exclusive and a player with both is prefarable to a player with only one .....

... and please, no need to copy and paste the chapter on fullback counter attack methods to further deflect ......
Counter attack methods are better suited to the round ball game----look up Leicester City and how they polished and honed the art of counter attack as a method to defeat more highly skilled/technical possession based teams.
 
Team P W L PD Pts
7 6 1 54 14
6 5 1 59 12
6 4 2 53 10
6 4 2 30 10
7 4 2 25 9
8 4 4 73 8
7 4 3 40 8
7 4 3 24 8
7 3 4 17 8
7 4 3 -8 8
8 4 4 -60 8
8 3 4 17 7
6 2 4 -31 6
7 3 4 -41 6
7 2 5 -29 4
7 1 6 -87 4
7 1 6 -136 4
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