Jamal Fogarty

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Facts are we haven’t won a premiership since 2011. Things need to change.

So just to be clear it's DCE's fault we haven't won since 2011?

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Can you not see we didn’t really have a choice between DCE and JF for similar money? The only way to argue against JF is by comparing him to other halfbacks on the market. Otherwise you may as well argue JF is a downgrade on Nathan Cleary.

It's not JF I'm directly concerned about. It's how we got here once again. It should never have got to this point.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

We cannot.

Apart from a premiership with a red hot team which he contributed big time to tearing apart, what exactly do you think the current halfback has done for the ... CLUB?

Come on. Honestly? He's a dead set top shelf HB. I get many on here are bitter about the whole thing but facts are facts. 90% of other sides in the NRL would have taken him in a heartbeat. He won a Clive Churchill medal from a loosing side. He's a QLD and Australian player.
Actually don't worry. Be happy in yourself to hate the guy. Move on and let's see where we end up next year.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Except when the numbers are, as others have pointed out, completely made up or wrong.

Why are they made up?

 

[Chip and Chase]

Close. Played 20 finals for 9 wins and 11 losses

The more accurate stat is

When carried as part of a gun side pre 2015

12 finals for 6 wins & 6 losses (4 seasons)

Since signing an 8 year + multimillion dollar contract as allegedly one of the elite players in the NRL

8 finals for 3 wins & 5 losses.(10 seasons)

 

[bringbackbeaver]

Come on. Honestly? He's a dead set top shelf HB. I get many on here are bitter about the whole thing but facts are facts. 90% of other sides in the NRL would have taken him in a heartbeat. He won a Clive Churchill medal from a loosing side. He's a QLD and Australian player.
Actually don't worry. Be happy in yourself to hate the guy. Move on and let's see where we end up next year.

It's not about hating the guy. Results are results. It may not be his direct fault we have been an average footy side since he took the reins, but you can't deny he has been our marquee player for the last 10-12 yrs and during that time, we have been average.

Individually, super talented. But has a habit of burning bridges and being unable to lead through adversity. When he signed the 10yr deal, he was the highest paid player in the game. We all would have expected 1 maybe two prems.

Has always been about the $$ with Cherry which is fine but call it how it is. To publicly come out and say he won't finish up with Manly contradicts his reason for backflipping on the Titans. Which was to be a ONE club player.

My personal view is he's talented, but players don't want to go to war with him and this impacts the morale of the team and ultimately the results.

 

[DieHardManlyFan]

So just to be clear it's DCE's fault we haven't won since 2011?

Just to be clear, I said that the facts are we haven’t won a premiership since 2011 and things need to change. At no point in time did I say it’s entirely DCE’s fault we haven’t won but the fact that he has been our captain and on the top dollar for that period of time would indicate it has been a contributing factor. I personally believe our issues lay with the ownership and structure of the club but seeing that you wanted facts I just highlighted that 0 premierships in 14 years isn’t good enough for our great club imo. But if you’re happy with that record and satisfied making finals then so be it, go manly!

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Just to be clear, I said that the facts are we haven’t won a premiership since 2011 and things need to change. At no point in time did I say it’s entirely DCE’s fault we haven’t won but the fact that he has been our captain and on the top dollar for that period of time would indicate it has been a contributing factor. I personally believe our issues lay with the ownership and structure of the club but seeing that you wanted facts I just highlighted that 0 premierships in 14 years isn’t good enough for our great club imo. But if you’re happy with that record and satisfied making finals then so be it, go manly!

Just as every player, coach, CEO and owner has been a contributing factor i would suppose. DCE gets a real flogging by some because he didn't lead a rag tag bunch of players to the promised land. A bigger issue than DCE could be the Trent Barrett years perhaps? the fact that Turbo has played possibly 50% of all games over the past 8 years. It wasnt his fault Manly signed him to a long term deal after Foz screwed the club.
of course 0 premierships in 14 years isnt good enough but i would propose our overall results over those 14 years would have been much worse without the guy.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

The more accurate stat is

When carried as part of a gun side pre 2015

12 finals for 6 wins & 6 losses (4 seasons)

Since signing an 8 year + multimillion dollar contract as allegedly one of the elite players in the NRL

8 finals for 3 wins & 5 losses.(10 seasons)

again facts are important. 16-18 were the Trent Barrett years. a rookie coach that couldn't coach. our other million dollar man Tommy T has missed over 100 weeks of footy to injury over that same time. Chez has missed less than 10. the Manase Finau circus didnt help. just to name a few. so factually there are a lot of reasons for Manlys lack of success over the last 10 years.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

It's not about hating the guy. Results are results. It may not be his direct fault we have been an average footy side since he took the reins, but you can't deny he has been our marquee player for the last 10-12 yrs and during that time, we have been average.

Individually, super talented. But has a habit of burning bridges and being unable to lead through adversity. When he signed the 10yr deal, he was the highest paid player in the game. We all would have expected 1 maybe two prems.

Has always been about the $$ with Cherry which is fine but call it how it is. To publicly come out and say he won't finish up with Manly contradicts his reason for backflipping on the Titans. Which was to be a ONE club player.

My personal view is he's talented, but players don't want to go to war with him and this impacts the morale of the team and ultimately the results.

most players are about the $$ thou. would you like Dylan Brown for 1.4 per season?

I think its a complete cop out to say players don't want to go to war with the guy. where is there any evidence of that? the players over the past 10 years have all looked very comfortable with DCE.

 

[Disco]

Come on people. Numbers are numbers. I can see this is a lost battle for most on here.

Fogarty is a solid player and as a team the raiders are doing well for once. does that mean JF is the reason the raiders are playing well?

DCE has better numbers, more experience, more wins, less injuries and a much longer career yet manly's position on the ladder is all on him.... if by seasons end we get our winning mojo back and are above the raiders is that also on DCE or will that be all about the team?

perhaps then we can agree JF will be a downgrade on what we already have. Just like Seibold was a downgrade on what we had before.

I think most here if had the choice would keep DCE. However we dont have the choice, he is leaving, Its done.

So comparing the two is a moot point. You'd be better comparing Fog v any other possible replacement alternatives

 

[Sea Eagle 4 Life]

Just as every player, coach, CEO and owner has been a contributing factor i would suppose. DCE gets a real flogging by some because he didn't lead a rag tag bunch of players to the promised land. A bigger issue than DCE could be the Trent Barrett years perhaps? the fact that Turbo has played possibly 50% of all games over the past 8 years. It wasnt his fault Manly signed him to a long term deal after Foz screwed the club.
of course 0 premierships in 14 years isnt good enough but i would propose our overall results over those 14 years would have been much worse without the guy.

Yes, DCE gets all the blame by many on here. You would have thought that he also caused COVID, the GFC, cost of living crisis etc etc................

 

[Budgie]

Just as every player, coach, CEO and owner has been a contributing factor i would suppose. DCE gets a real flogging by some because he didn't lead a rag tag bunch of players to the promised land.

And each of them were/are paid waaaaaay less than him. With the $$$$ comes responsibility, unless you're the halfback who steers the team around I guess

the fact that Turbo has played possibly 50% of all games over the past 8 years.

Again, so we only win (what is it?) 34% of games where we have our highest paid player but not Turbo.

And we do win with Turbo with those rag tag bunch of players of which you speak?

Right then

 

[Stewbojevic]

I think most here if had the choice would keep DCE. However we dont have the choice, he is leaving, Its done.

So comparing the two is a moot point. You'd be better comparing Fog v any other possible replacement alternatives

Exactly, and of the available options on the market he is the best

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Oh, we're all discussing DCE again?
Ok!!
I think he's a brilliant player and his record says he's one of Manly's best ever (but it also says he has presided as captain over our longest premiership drought)
In other words... I got nothing new on this topic 🤷‍♀️

 

[Brookie1973]

I think most here if had the choice would keep DCE. However we dont have the choice, he is leaving, Its done.

So comparing the two is a moot point. You'd be better comparing Fog v any other possible replacement alternatives

I wouldn’t bother mate, he doesn’t seem to comprehend that what he is arguing (DCE vs JF) is irrelevant/moot/besides the point. I think what he is arguing is that we should go back in time and sign a 37 year old halfback for $1m+ a season.

 

[Chip and Chase]

again facts are important. 16-18 were the Trent Barrett years. a rookie coach that couldn't coach. our other million dollar man Tommy T has missed over 100 weeks of footy to injury over that same time. Chez has missed less than 10. the Manase Finau circus didnt help. just to name a few. so factually there are a lot of reasons for Manlys lack of success over the last 10 years.

Barrett's inability to coach isn't a fact, it's an opinion. Who is to say Barrett's coaching and DCE's on field performances are mutually exclusive events ? Likewise the effect of Fainu drama on our season, subjective opinion. Turbo's game frequency is fact, and if anything proves who the key player in this team is as our win rate drops through the floor without him in side. Irrefutable FACT is we have won 3 finals games since we put all our eggs in DCE basket. 3 finals games in 10 years.

You are clearly a massive DCE fan, which is fine by me. Personally I think he has been decidedly underwhelming since 2015 backflip. No amount of quoting his 2011 premiership and his 2013 Clive Churchill medal is going to change my opinion that since we signed him on an 8 year deal he hasn't delivered enough to justify the amount of money we spent on him. He's not elite, he's just a better than average NRL half that only looks good behind a dominant team. That's my opinion and I'm not trying to pass it off as fact. The only fact I can give you is that we haven't won a premiership for 13 years.

 

[LeonardCohen]

again facts are important. 16-18 were the Trent Barrett years. a rookie coach that couldn't coach. our other million dollar man Tommy T has missed over 100 weeks of footy to injury over that same time. Chez has missed less than 10. the Manase Finau circus didnt help. just to name a few. so factually there are a lot of reasons for Manlys lack of success over the last 10 years.

You know, I think you present some strong anecdotal evidence and occasional facts and I agree that DCE has given wonderful service to the club over many years. When he announced he was leaving, I was devastated. I don’t believe Fogerty is anywhere near DCE as a footballer.

But…

DCE didn’t want to sign with Manly for reasons we do not know about. We can speculate but we don’t know.

So…

You have the option of blaming the club based on speculation, and side with the guy that didn’t have enough care for you (a fan) to announce his departure respectfully or get behind the club that will be there long after Daly is done and dusted…

There’s no point wasting time arguing how good he is and how dumb our club are, when you don’t know if they’re to blame in the first place. Regardless, we’ll never like every decision the club makes but it’s still our club and I’m not gonna let one player change that.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

I think most here if had the choice would keep DCE. However we dont have the choice, he is leaving, Its done.

So comparing the two is a moot point. You'd be better comparing Fog v any other possible replacement alternatives

And this is the point I'm trying to make. We shouldn't be in this position bar very poor planning from Mestrov and co.

Any swap needs to be an upgrade otherwise it's a net loss. It was my exact point with Des. Sure perhaps his time had come but the club was so desperate to get rid of him they went for a guy that couldn't get a job in the NRL to save himself.

Same with DCE. I will say it again when DCE asked for a release in 2024 planning should have been put in place to have his replacement ready yet we let that guy go to souths.

We must have a better player than the one we loose or its a failure from mestrov and co.

 

[robbiea]

Can’t wait for the no DCE era to begin .