Jake Trbojevic offers nothing in attack

[Harmless27]

Thank you @Disco for using common sense and data to completely disprove the original post/subjective opinion.

That is WITHOUT validating any of the other non-statistical benefits that Jake may bring to MWSE:
Leadership
Community engagement and reputation
Standards setting & passion

Question - do we all think that Haumole wuold be at the level he is at if he wasn't training with players like Jake early in his career?

I always think back to Ben Kennedy - he made our WHOLE PACK better for years after he left with the standards and passion he brought to our club for just tw seasons. Kite, Watmough etc would NEVER have reached their heights without the excellence in training and standards set by Kennedy.

Leaders cast long shadows - and Jake is most certainly a leader for our club.

Money. Well. Spent.

 

[Wombat64]

Thank you @Disco for using common sense and data to completely disprove the original post/subjective opinion.

That is WITHOUT validating any of the other non-statistical benefits that Jake may bring to MWSE:
Leadership
Community engagement and reputation
Standards setting & passion

Question - do we all think that Haumole wuold be at the level he is at if he wasn't training with players like Jake early in his career?

I always think back to Ben Kennedy - he made our WHOLE PACK better for years after he left with the standards and passion he brought to our club for just tw seasons. Kite, Watmough etc would NEVER have reached their heights without the excellence in training and standards set by Kennedy.

Leaders cast long shadows - and Jake is most certainly a leader for our club.

Money. Well. Spent.

Exactly!

 

[stoodamire]

So I'm procrastinating at work so had a better look.

Also apologies if there is any slight mistake but this should be pretty close to the mark if not bang on.

So Jake has missed 20 games since he became a regular in 2015. For 5 wins and 15 losses.

So we win 25% of our games when Jake is out.

In the last 3 years where he has copped the most heat Jake has missed 12 games and we have only won 2 and lost 10

A 16.6% win rate without him.

Over his career we have a 48.2% win rate with Jake in the team so its a steep drop off.

I also looked at the Blues since Jake debuted in 2017. In that period NSW win 58% of the games when Jake plays and that drops to 40% when he doesn't.

But please tell me again that Jake isn't influential and we aren't better with him in the team.

Good effort with those stats.

Question, with those games we lost without Jake, were we missing any other key players?

 

[frank stokes]

Good effort with those stats.

Question, with those games we lost without Jake, were we missing any other key players?

Good chance we were missing Tom 😂

 

[IQofalimabean]

jake ranks 45th in terms of run meters for locks last year and is the most expensive lock in the comp.

I dont blame jake, frankly i blame the club, and the coach. Also, i stand by my statement that if the club does not improve the pack, then Manly arent winning a premiership for a very long time.

 

[Bearfax]

Here we go again We've been over this many times, Bearfax.

You're describing a lock's role circa 1985! OK, Glenn Stewart played a little wider but he pretty much retired as the role transitioned to another middle forward.

You just have to accept that locks play in the middle now and have for going on 10 years now. When was the last time Isiah Yeo roamed both sides and/or made a cover tackle 'out wide' or operated near his centres? He, and pretty much every other lock in the NRL, exclusively play middle, like another prop but with more ball playing responsibility.

Have to disagree old mate. I dont think the role of lock has changed that much over the years. The vast majority playing lock today also played only second row. A look through the rest I find one who played 5/8, two who played hooker, two who played centre including Yeo. There are a few who have played prop but not many. Primarily the position is reserved for the leaner, quicker types, and given five played hooker, centre of five eighth, it shows they meet that need for speed, lateral skills etc. There is most certainly still a place at lock for a Coote, Menzies, Reilly type. Those playing prop are usually meant to be close to the centre because they aren't fast, but they are big and tough. Jurbo is out of position.

 

[BOZO]

Also apologies if there is any slight mistake but this should be pretty close to the mark if not bang on.
So Jake has missed 20 games since he became a regular in 2015. For 5 wins and 15 losses.
So we win 25% of our games when Jake is out.
In the last 3 years where he has copped the most heat Jake has missed 12 games and we have only won 2 and lost 10
A 16.6% win rate without him.

Never apologies for Making an Effort feathered friend
This effort must be also be raised by All our players by 110%
Because if they do that we will never see them capitulate as they did last season
This Season should be All about 110% effort by every Manly player in Every game they represent our Legendary club .

I Ask ?
What is the point of Showing how Committed the Manly Players are in their Netflix Training series
If they do not show the same enthusiasm and 110% commitment when they take the field and play ?
If this 110% Commitment was applied in our trial game last week
We would not have been thrashed by a third rate rookie panther team who connivingly won the game through 110% enthusiasm and commitment

* 110 % Committed Panther Kids just out of School did their Jersey Proud*

 

[LeonardCohen]

Have to disagree old mate. I dont think the role of lock has changed that much over the years. The vast majority playing lock today also played only second row. A look through the rest I find one who played 5/8, two who played hooker, two who played centre including Yeo. There are a few who have played prop but not many. Primarily the position is reserved for the leaner, quicker types, and given five played hooker, centre of five eighth, it shows they meet that need for speed, lateral skills etc. There is most certainly still a place at lock for a Coote, Menzies, Reilly type. Those playing prop are usually meant to be close to the centre because they aren't fast, but they are big and tough. Jurbo is out of position.

You missed my point completely. I wasn’t commenting on their attributes. Of course, they’re lean and athletic nowadays…you were suggesting they play wide when they’re selected at lock and I’m relaying that the modern 13 occupies the middle third of the field, not ‘out wide’.

You’re arguing a different point that I didn’t make in the first instance.

 

[Sheikheagle]

I tell you who would be an awesome lock in todays game. Nick Kosef in my opinion would be better than Yeo. Tough as nails and so skillful, a second 5/8. Only dodgy knees stopped him from being an all time great.

 

[Disco]

I tell you who would be an awesome lock in todays game. Nick Kosef in my opinion would be better than Yeo. Tough as nails and so skillful, a second 5/8. Only dodgy knees stopped him from being an all time great.

Loved Kosef as my pic may suggest

 

[frank stokes]

Never apologies for Making an Effort feathered friend
This effort must be also be raised by All our players by 110%
Because if they do that we will never see them capitulate as they did last season
This Season should be All about 110% effort by every Manly player in Every game they represent our Legendary club .

I Ask ?
What is the point of Showing how Committed the Manly Players are in their Netflix Training series
If they do not show the same enthusiasm and 110% commitment when they take the field and play ?
If this 110% Commitment was applied in our trial game last week
We would not have been thrashed by a third rate rookie panther team who connivingly won the game through 110% enthusiasm and commitment

* 110 % Committed Panther Kids just out of School did their Jersey Proud* View attachment 29376

Wrong thread for this observation @BOZO

Say what like about Jake but nobody can ever question that you get 110% (and then some) effort from Jurbo EVERY time (plus he did not play the trial)…

 

[Bearfax]

You missed my point completely. I wasn’t commenting on their attributes. Of course, they’re lean and athletic nowadays…you were suggesting they play wide when they’re selected at lock and I’m relaying that the modern 13 occupies the middle third of the field, not ‘out wide’.

You’re arguing a different point that I didn’t make in the first instance.

No I didn't miss the point at all. In the modern game the props tend to dominate the centre, the second row outside and the lock a wandering role. The second row and lock, for gaining ground, will often take their turn run up the centre. So will even wingers for that matter. But in attacking forays they tend to run wider. Look at Olakau'atu. Consistently he is used to run out wide off DCE kicks or passes. Menzies spent a lot of his attacking outside Lyons. Burbo is often out towards the side line in attacking forays. No question with initial ground making up the centre, all forwards take their turn. Backs do it also. But set plays often find back row forwards out wide

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Look at Olakau'atu. Consistently he is used to run out wide off DCE kicks or passes. Menzies spent a lot of his attacking outside Lyons. Burbo is often out towards the side line in attacking forays.

except...
Haumole is a second rower!
Menzies... second rower! (bar a couple of seasons around Northern eagles era)
Burbo ... second rower!
Second rowers usually stand outside the halves and inside their centre.
I know nothing about footy, and even I know that!

 

[Dion Johnson]

I tell you who would be an awesome lock in todays game. Nick Kosef in my opinion would be better than Yeo. Tough as nails and so skillful, a second 5/8. Only dodgy knees stopped him from being an all time great.

Back then the club was producing quality backrowers, had a dream run with local lads playing first grade in the backrow and doing well, Kosef was a gun player, had the ability to change a game.

 

[Bearfax]

except...
Haumole is a second rower!
Menzies... second rower! (bar a couple of seasons around Northern eagles era)
Burbo ... second rower!
Second rowers usually stand outside the halves and inside their centre.
I know nothing about footy, and even I know that!

Not getting through am I. They are back rowers and therefore suited for lock positions. Menzies often played lock. Burbo centre. A large number of the second rowers playing for the NRL last season if you check, played second row...and lock. Interchangeable, unlike having a prop there. The whole point of the issue was that Bullemor and Burbo would make good locks because its an interchangeable position with second row and because they tend to be of the same body shape

 

[Sheikheagle]

Back then the club was producing quality backrowers, had a dream run with local lads playing first grade in the backrow and doing well, Kosef was a gun player, had the ability to change a game.

We were blessed to have beaver, gartner and kosef in the one side.

 

[Bearfax]

We were blessed to have beaver, gartner and kosef in the one side.

Great back row combination.

 

[Disco]

Not getting through am I. They are back rowers and therefore suited for lock positions. Menzies often played lock. Burbo centre. A large number of the second rowers playing for the NRL last season if you check, played second row...and lock. Interchangeable, unlike having a prop there. The whole point of the issue was that Bullemor and Burbo would make good locks because its an interchangeable position with second row and because they tend to be of the same body shape

A centre can play winger but it doesnt mean they aren't different positions with a different purpose to the team

Sorry Bearfax I'm with the others, modern lock plays through the middle.

Sure some players can interchange cause they have the attributes for both, however when they switch roles they play different roles.

As for Burbo, certainly dont see him making an effective lock.

 

[LeonardCohen]

No I didn't miss the point at all. In the modern game the props tend to dominate the centre, the second row outside and the lock a wandering role. The second row and lock, for gaining ground, will often take their turn run up the centre. So will even wingers for that matter. But in attacking forays they tend to run wider. Look at Olakau'atu. Consistently he is used to run out wide off DCE kicks or passes. Menzies spent a lot of his attacking outside Lyons. Burbo is often out towards the side line in attacking forays. No question with initial ground making up the centre, all forwards take their turn. Backs do it also. But set plays often find back row forwards out wide

Oh Bear I give up. We’ve been over this so many times. A lock and a second row forward are not the same position. Don’t use Olakau’atu as evidence of a lock running wide, because a lock and a second row forward are two different positions….and definitely don’t use Menzies because he retired 17 years ago!

next time you watch a game, keep an eye on the guy wearing 13…he’ll do his defending and running in the middle third. They’ll also provide a ‘link’ in the middle, where they ball play during attacking forays. Don’t worry what the 11 and 12 are doing, because they’re not locks, which is why they don’t have 13 on their jumper. And don’t worry about what the 13 used to do in the 80s because the game is a bit different now 😉