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Jake, DCE , outside backs

Simonmyers11

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I didn't give him three, didn't give him any this week. I think he is doing a pretty good job considering he has his first choice 9, 6 and 1 out. I think it is pretty much up to him every week to come up with all our points. I do think he has gone in and out of games, I think he can be more consistent for sure, I think he even said that in an interview. I definitely think the 5th tackle plays are just horrible, massive work needed in off season.
I am optimistic though if we do field a full strength side that can actually stay on the field and build some combinations and string a few wins together, build confidence plus the emergence of a few potential stars coming through we have a very capable side. If he cannot perform with a spine around him then I think critism is warranted. I do believe however we will see a much improved DCE with the spine back and hopefully Dez addressing some issues in the off season. I can see he gets flustered in games but really with no other help around him of late he is doing ok, especially second half of season. I really don't think a Adam Reynolds, Mitchell Pearce, Munster etc would do any better in current Manly side. Let's just hope for some dam better luck with injuries next year, we have not even seen what this side is capable of?
 

manly al

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Been off in a couple of games this season [ as has been the case in the past few seasons ] but does still puts in especially in the tacking department and support play , so have to always take this into account when D C E "s overall performance level is given some attention . Cover defence has saved quite a few opposition tries this year in particular also and very rarely misses a one on one tackle . Probably could do more in the communication sense with trying to get the defensive line better organized , get the impression some time that he just expects players around him to read the play and leave it at that and with the inexperience ;level and disruption to regular playing positions , probably not the most helpful attitude . For sure could be able to go better if Tom and Fainu were providing some more attacking opportunities but more times then not also could be doing more in the game management and effective kicking front . As a bench mark as the highest paid N R L player , still maintain that he would have to be a regular 8 to 8. 5 rated player to justify that pay grade , overall again for a range reasons no doubt falls a bit short. but effort is generally always there
 

Simonmyers11

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Been off in a couple of games this season [ as has been the case in the past few seasons ] but does still puts in especially in the tacking department and support play , so have to always take this into account when D C E "s overall performance level is given some attention . Cover defence has saved quite a few opposition tries this year in particular also and very rarely misses a one on one tackle . Probably could do more in the communication sense with trying to get the defensive line better organized , get the impression some time that he just expects players around him to read the play and leave it at that and with the inexperience ;level and disruption to regular playing positions , probably not the most helpful attitude . For sure could be able to go better if Tom and Fainu were providing some more attacking opportunities but more times then not also could be doing more in the game management and effective kicking front . As a bench mark as the highest paid N R L player , still maintain that he would have to be a regular 8 to 8. 5 rated player to justify that pay grade , overall again for a range reasons no doubt falls a bit short. but effort is generally always there
Yes agree. He needs not to drift in and out of games as much, needs to be a bit more consistent for the 80 mins. He is capable
 

Tomay

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Fell free to add some footy perspective as opposed to sarcasm .
Your not obligated of course
Sure, go through my post history if you like. Our attack isn't a problem, its been reasonable without TT and Walker. We do struggle some sets to get momentum, which is mostly down to poor dummy half service, a lack of punch from the backs in the initial plays and flat forward/timid forwards. The other thing we struggle with is momentum killing knock ons from poor individual plays at crucial moments - always seemingly coming out of our own end or early in the tackle count in the attacking zone.

DCE is a fine long range kicker, even when our tackle 4 play goes nowhere, no one blocks from him and the dummy half throws it above his head - he leads the league in kick distance. Jake is obviously coached to be more of a ball playing lock, which wouldn't been hurting us too badly except where the lack of forward momentum as mentioned above becomes evident.

Our real concern is the lack of intent in first contact defence, the lack of line speed and the complete lack of kick pressure. DCE for his part is the fastest player out of the line and trying to rev them up a bit, he is also solid defensively. In the middle our big boppas are slow laterally and dont seem to want to put a hit on. Levi is terrible defensively, completely dominated and Jake is exhausted from covering for the others around him.

I still believe a lot of the tries we concede are from kicks (the lack of pressure doesn't help) and being caught out without Turbo barking orders from the back and covering the opposition winger after we go up and in.

Completely different team with Turbo and a real hooker. Still a lot to work on, but mostly defensively and very little of it is DCE's fault - in fact I think he's the 2nd best half in the comp.
 

Bearfax

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Amazing. DCE is seen as horrible, yet the Fantasy team gave him a huge 84 points. The disparity appears each week. Either the independents watching the game and give DCE wraps are seriously in error, or....
 

Will on the hill.

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If you look at the halves that are going well this year they all have a pretty decent support crew taking some of the responsibility off their shoulders.
Cleary has Api and Luai
Munster has Smith and Papy
Keary has Teddy and Flanagan
Moses has Brown and Gutho
Williams has Whiton and Hodgson
Reynolds has Cook and Walker
Pearce has Mann and Ponga
Johnson has Townsend and Graham
Even Ash Taylor has started to look good with consistent help from Brimson and Fogarty.
The rest of the teams, especially Manly have had to make do with chopping and changing struggling replacement reserve graders which makes it damn hard for their halves to shine. Chez has his deficiencies but has done pretty well under the circumstances.
 

The Who

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If The Shoe remains injury-free next season our attack will improve markedly. He is the 'Cliffy Lyons' we have been seeking. It will help take a lot of pressure off DCE.
Provided DESpicable selects our up-and-comers and not our second-raters then we'll be scoring a lot of tries from kicks, sleight-of-hand and pace. Won't that be a refreshing change?
Imagine a backline containing Turbo, The Shoe, Harper, Tyfuna, Hoppa Jnr and Saab.....
 

Will on the hill.

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If The Shoe remains injury-free next season our attack will improve markedly. He is the 'Cliffy Lyons' we have been seeking. It will help take a lot of pressure off DCE.
Provided DESpicable selects our up-and-comers and not our second-raters then we'll be scoring a lot of tries from kicks, sleight-of-hand and pace. Won't that be a refreshing change?
Imagine a backline containing Turbo, The Shoe, Harper, Tyfuna, Hoppa Jnr and Saab.....
Yep, if Chez, Shoe and Turbo can play the majority of games together then the whole squad will look better.
 

Chip and Chase

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Amazing. DCE is seen as horrible, yet the Fantasy team gave him a huge 84 points. The disparity appears each week. Either the independents watching the game and give DCE wraps are seriously in error, or....
Not sure if you play the fantasy games or not, but there are no independents "rating" players' ability. It's purely a points based system and halves/fullbacks dominate because they get points for try assists, try contributions, line break assists etc because they touch the ball a lot. That's their job. There is very little discretion around performance it's just a case of you make a tackle you get a point, you do an offload you get a point, you make the last pass for a try you get a point - very little judgement on the quality, it's all about quantity. You wouldn't call any of the people reviewing the games as experts, they are just tallying up contributions. There's not a massive disconnect between the on field performance and fantasy points I'll grant you that, but I wouldn't be using it as a reliable indicator of ability. For example Dylan Brown and Kyle Flanagan average more than DCE (as do Johnson and Cleary by a fair way more).

If you want independent (allegedly) assessment of players then I suppose the Dally M voting is the closest you are going to get.
 

sean john

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DCE could come up with 7 try assists, 40-20, try saving tackle and the same few posters would still bitch he needs to go. Interesting he pretty much keeps getting the 3 points every week on here for the majority of posts for MVP.
How many accounts you got Simon? Jkz
 

jbb/james

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To answer some questions @Tomay and @Simonmyers11
We Shouldnt let the season blurr in our memories

I totally get the spine injuries and suspensions. But if we cast our minds back to when turbo was playing and even walker . DCE was far worse than his current form. Getting caught on 5th tackle , poorly positioned to kick, constant charge downs, ignoring his backs and sitting mid field turning the ball inside time and time again without purpose . He may have gone 6 weeks without running the ball to the line. And then his short kicks nearly always found opposition and was more dangerous from a defence position than attack

He is a bit of a lone ranger currently but the main point of my original post,
jake is way more effective when our halfback takes a halfbacks share of the ball, and doesnt shirk it, especially as some have mentioned he is selected in rep teams
Our outside backs have been ignored all season and the other night he threw the ball wide like a halfback should and they looked better
Doggies defence was as poor as ours

The question i also raised was as a highly skilled athlete that has the best boot in the game, has the length of his contract made his cosy and soft, and if so That is Attitude. And is attitude excusable

Last weeks loss , a halfback of pedigree would have slowed the game down, showed some compusre with 10 to go. And that was one of his better games

Our defence has been rubbish ,that is also attitude but WHICH COMES FIRST , which begs the question does DCE stand for daly chicken / egg

Im a passionate manly fan, im not a sore loser i move on quickly. Footy doesnt determine my mood but i like talking about footy, always have . I dont want to be seen as a hater but **** me sideways , he is taking the piss

Just because everyone thinks sonny bill is gods gift , doesnt mean i have to tow the DCE is a champion line. I dont buy either of them quite frankly

Over rated, over paid and resting on reputation for another 3 years and 2 more games. I might sort some type of advent calendar to give me something to look forward too
 

Simonmyers11

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I agree, first 5-6 games was pretty poor from DCE but he has consistently improved as the season has gone on, like you said a bit of a lone wolf. It's a pity the rest of the side could not follow suit. I'm pretty sure if Tom stayed fit (as he was in career best form) and Daley was playing like he is now as well as some better luck with injuries Manly would be sitting a lot higher on the ladder and we would be discussing finals. Oh well, not to be this year. I do don't personally believe DCE is just happy to cruise and not want to train harder to improve his mistakes in his game. He strikes me as a player who wants to excel at everything he does. Pretty sure he would like to be a little more consistent. Hopefully he can get that into his game next year
 

AASeaEagles

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To answer some questions @Tomay and @Simonmyers11
We Shouldnt let the season blurr in our memories

I totally get the spine injuries and suspensions. But if we cast our minds back to when turbo was playing and even walker . DCE was far worse than his current form. Getting caught on 5th tackle , poorly positioned to kick, constant charge downs, ignoring his backs and sitting mid field turning the ball inside time and time again without purpose . He may have gone 6 weeks without running the ball to the line. And then his short kicks nearly always found opposition and was more dangerous from a defence position than attack

He is a bit of a lone ranger currently but the main point of my original post,
jake is way more effective when our halfback takes a halfbacks share of the ball, and doesnt shirk it, especially as some have mentioned he is selected in rep teams
Our outside backs have been ignored all season and the other night he threw the ball wide like a halfback should and they looked better
Doggies defence was as poor as ours

The question i also raised was as a highly skilled athlete that has the best boot in the game, has the length of his contract made his cosy and soft, and if so That is Attitude. And is attitude excusable

Last weeks loss , a halfback of pedigree would have slowed the game down, showed some compusre with 10 to go. And that was one of his better games

Our defence has been rubbish ,that is also attitude but WHICH COMES FIRST , which begs the question does DCE stand for daly chicken / egg

Im a passionate manly fan, im not a sore loser i move on quickly. Footy doesnt determine my mood but i like talking about footy, always have . I dont want to be seen as a hater but **** me sideways , he is taking the piss

Just because everyone thinks sonny bill is gods gift , doesnt mean i have to tow the DCE is a champion line. I dont buy either of them quite frankly

Over rated, over paid and resting on reputation for another 3 years and 2 more games. I might sort some type of advent calendar to give me something to look forward too
Absolute rubbish. He's not perfect, but he's easily one of the best 7s in the world.

Everyone needs to get the **** over how much he gets paid, and be grateful we that our halfback is the experienced Premiership-winning Captain of QLD
 

double hoops

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Chez has the most kick metres in the comp and has some of the top try assists and line break assists along with 5 tries. He is doing his job. 2 things he needs to learn to do is cut out Siro and force more line drop outs.
Robbo mate, can I ask you this.

Do you think DCE could be a much better halfback, if is game management went up a notch?

That dogs game is fresh in our memory.

I view it this way. That first half. Would you agree DCE's kicking game, with the exception of kicking for distance was pretty poor?

At the 31 minute mark we had Zero points. Dogs had the bulk of possession and field position for that time they led by 10.

I'm suggesting DCE was a massive part of that. The kicking it dead. Especially the Kicking out on the full off the restart. Then add couple of just horrible fifth tackle options when we got down their end. His boot at the attacking end is the issue.

YES he can play and the razzle dazzle seen him then set up 2 of the 3 trys we scored in 9 minutes, when we then set up camp down their end.

Most kick metres. Is that stat a reflection that the teams kicking game and possession of the footy is poor? You don't have to boot it a long way all day, if your getting repeat sets and on the attack at the scoring end.

In that game the No 1 Funa was pretty awesome. Cust at 6 certainly carried his share including with the boot. And Levi at 9 may have had his best game in a Manly jumper.

Way I see it the main man directing the play and kicking the ball just needs to improve in a major part of the game and has to change is ways.

The sad part is, the team, and the individual would be 4x greater if, DES can get him to game manage.

Turtle open said last year he wants to play more eyes up footy and run.

Now imagine if DCE with his running and passing game was then the one getting 31 minutes not 9 with great possession and field position.

To be fair valuing possession and position, alsi goes hand in hand with being a little more restrained.

Let's just chalk DCE up with 3 of our 4 try assists, and the dogs 1.

But then hes tired out an opposition. You'd back him to simply have a field day in the second half every day.

He's good, but the team won't be anymore than average until he changes his own ways.
 

Tomay

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Robbo mate, can I ask you this.

Do you think DCE could be a much better halfback, if is game management went up a notch?
Sure, but maybe that's not the best way for him to play personally. There's been plenty of talentless halfbacks that have just been game managers over the years, very few have premiership rings without a really talented five eight beside them.

DCE is in the unfortunate position of really having to do all the play making. With a poor hooker to boot. If you want him to always be in position for tackle 5 you really need someone else to do some ball playing through the latter part of the set.... Enter Jake. He does his best but there's not much else to work with.

Maybe we are also coached to play a different style. I'm sure if Des wanted him to just pass the ball and be there to kick, he would do it. It would be such a waste though, he's the best supporting and off-the cuff half in the competition.
 

The better Robbo

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Robbo mate, can I ask you this.

Do you think DCE could be a much better halfback, if is game management went up a notch?

That dogs game is fresh in our memory.

I view it this way. That first half. Would you agree DCE's kicking game, with the exception of kicking for distance was pretty poor?

At the 31 minute mark we had Zero points. Dogs had the bulk of possession and field position for that time they led by 10.

I'm suggesting DCE was a massive part of that. The kicking it dead. Especially the Kicking out on the full off the restart. Then add couple of just horrible fifth tackle options when we got down their end. His boot at the attacking end is the issue.

YES he can play and the razzle dazzle seen him then set up 2 of the 3 trys we scored in 9 minutes, when we then set up camp down their end.

Most kick metres. Is that stat a reflection that the teams kicking game and possession of the footy is poor? You don't have to boot it a long way all day, if your getting repeat sets and on the attack at the scoring end.

In that game the No 1 Funa was pretty awesome. Cust at 6 certainly carried his share including with the boot. And Levi at 9 may have had his best game in a Manly jumper.

Way I see it the main man directing the play and kicking the ball just needs to improve in a major part of the game and has to change is ways.

The sad part is, the team, and the individual would be 4x greater if, DES can get him to game manage.

Turtle open said last year he wants to play more eyes up footy and run.

Now imagine if DCE with his running and passing game was then the one getting 31 minutes not 9 with great possession and field position.

To be fair valuing possession and position, alsi goes hand in hand with being a little more restrained.

Let's just chalk DCE up with 3 of our 4 try assists, and the dogs 1.

But then hes tired out an opposition. You'd back him to simply have a field day in the second half every day.

He's good, but the team won't be anymore than average until he changes his own ways.
I'd say Chez feels like he's carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders and tries too hard, he often goes for a miracle play rather than try for a repeat set. I don't think it helps that our 9 and 1 can't kick and he has has 27 halves partners all of which don't have strong kicking games. Cust is an exception, he has a nice short kicking game and should be used more but for some reason we seem to plah away from him. I think Chez just tries too hard and has become quite a hog and often comes up with a dud play, he'd be better having more confidence in other players to take more kicks. I think other than not getting the repeat sets, Chez is doing a great job! This is the very reason we need a 9 or 6 with a quality kicking game.
 

Simonmyers11

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I think you will see him improve with his 6, 9 and 1 back and he will need to improve next year for us to be up the very top.
I just think whenever Crocker is at 9, we just look horrible. As soon as Levi started to give some nice clean early ball DCE could play some footy.
5th tackle is the biggest area for improvement next year, I'm sure Dez and DCE will work on it
 

AASeaEagles

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Messages
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Robbo mate, can I ask you this.

Do you think DCE could be a much better halfback, if is game management went up a notch?

That dogs game is fresh in our memory.

I view it this way. That first half. Would you agree DCE's kicking game, with the exception of kicking for distance was pretty poor?

At the 31 minute mark we had Zero points. Dogs had the bulk of possession and field position for that time they led by 10.

I'm suggesting DCE was a massive part of that. The kicking it dead. Especially the Kicking out on the full off the restart. Then add couple of just horrible fifth tackle options when we got down their end. His boot at the attacking end is the issue.

YES he can play and the razzle dazzle seen him then set up 2 of the 3 trys we scored in 9 minutes, when we then set up camp down their end.

Most kick metres. Is that stat a reflection that the teams kicking game and possession of the footy is poor? You don't have to boot it a long way all day, if your getting repeat sets and on the attack at the scoring end.

In that game the No 1 Funa was pretty awesome. Cust at 6 certainly carried his share including with the boot. And Levi at 9 may have had his best game in a Manly jumper.

Way I see it the main man directing the play and kicking the ball just needs to improve in a major part of the game and has to change is ways.

The sad part is, the team, and the individual would be 4x greater if, DES can get him to game manage.

Turtle open said last year he wants to play more eyes up footy and run.

Now imagine if DCE with his running and passing game was then the one getting 31 minutes not 9 with great possession and field position.

To be fair valuing possession and position, alsi goes hand in hand with being a little more restrained.

Let's just chalk DCE up with 3 of our 4 try assists, and the dogs 1.

But then hes tired out an opposition. You'd back him to simply have a field day in the second half every day.

He's good, but the team won't be anymore than average until he changes his own ways.
Fact: Footy teams must have 3-4 playmakers (9, 7, 6 &/1). They must all be a threat in their own right, each offering a point of difference.

Fact: If only 1 of these is truly creating over the 80mins week in week out, it doesn't take long for all other teams to effectively put all their attention, and tremendous pressure on him.

To say the team will always be average due of DCE, because you happened to see him kick a few bad kicks on Friday night is almost laughable if it weren't so insulting
 

Simonmyers11

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Fact: Footy teams must have 3-4 playmakers (9, 7, 6 &/1). They must all be a threat in their own right, each offering a point of difference.

Fact: If only 1 of these is truly creating over the 80mins week in week out, it doesn't take long for all other teams to effectively put all their attention, and tremendous pressure on him.

To say the team will always be average due of DCE, because you happened to see him kick a few bad kicks on Friday night is almost laughable if it weren't so insulting
That's what people don't see, they just expect DCE to be perfect every week, but no player is. I do feel he can improve game management and 5th tackle kicks but he is a dam good half back playing without a 1, 6 and 9 and a team full of injuries. Cleary was pretty poor last year, but this year with API, Jarome in career best form and a team with no injuries and no weak links he is the form player in the comp. I cannot see any team winning the comp without a good spine and near full strength.
 

AASeaEagles

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That's what people don't see, they just expect DCE to be perfect every week, but no player is. I do feel he can improve game management and 5th tackle kicks but he is a dam good half back playing without a 1, 6 and 9 and a team full of injuries. Cleary was pretty poor last year, but this year with API, Jarome in career best form and a team with no injuries and no weak links he is the form player in the comp. I cannot see any team winning the comp without a good spine and near full strength.
Absolutely
 

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