Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

Jake, DCE , outside backs

double hoops

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
4,982
Fact: Footy teams must have 3-4 playmakers (9, 7, 6 &/1). They must all be a threat in their own right, each offering a point of difference.

Fact: If only 1 of these is truly creating over the 80mins week in week out, it doesn't take long for all other teams to effectively put all their attention, and tremendous pressure on him.

To say the team will always be average due of DCE, because you happened to see him kick a few bad kicks on Friday night is almost laughable if it weren't so insulting
Thing with DCE is if it was only one game and a few poor kicks no one would be grumbling. It's been poor without any signs of consistent improvement for years.

Last few months it's apparent he is working on his bombs. Spirals have emerged. Pretty sure I seen a couple inside foots ones as well.

In goal repeat sets. Nada. It's like DES has given up and just said get tackled on the fifth.

It's blood near on impossible to win a comp if building pressure and keeping possession is made that hard.

I'll hope and pray that this coming off season MAN and DCE can find the answer.
 

Simonmyers11

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
5,255
Thing with DCE is if it was only one game and a few poor kicks no one would be grumbling. It's been poor without any signs of consistent improvement for years.

Last few months it's apparent he is working on his bombs. Spirals have emerged. Pretty sure I seen a couple inside foots ones as well.

In goal repeat sets. Nada. It's like DES has given up and just said get tackled on the fifth.

It's blood near on impossible to win a comp if building pressure and keeping possession is made that hard.

I'll hope and pray that this coming off season MAN and DCE can find the answer.
That's critism I feel is warranted, the 5th tackle kicks over the past couple of years since Dez has coached (who I still think is an awesome coach) has gone backwards! I feel DCE gets attacked for every part of his game when in fact he has been pretty dam good for years, not poor. We know he can get repeat sets, in his MOM origin performance 2 series ago he did like 4 in the space of 20 mins on the biggest pressure stage. Under Barrett who I think prioritises 5th tackle repeat sets he was leading the comp as is Clearly currently. Under Dez it is or was 100% coached to run it on last which I personally think was a mistake and you can see some improvement over the last month in that respect but the team still looks unstructed and needs much more work in the off season. Whether it's not coached, Levi doing his own thing like passing to Marty on the last, DCE being in two minds and playing off the cusp too much when a kick would of been the better option or just a combination of all of the above!
Definitely agree that part of his game needs to get to a Cleary level of consistency, but for that it needs to be practiced at training and put into effect out on the field. Having a stable spine and smart hooker would also go along way to helping his game improve so he can take us to another level, which we clearly need to next year to be up the top
 
Last edited:

jbb/james

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,058
That's critism I feel is warranted, the 5th tackle kicks over the past couple of years since Dez has coached (who I still think is an awesome coach) has gone backwards! I feel DCE gets attacked for every part of his game when in fact he has been pretty dam good for years, not poor. We know he can get repeat sets, in his MOM origin performance 2 series ago he did like 4 in the space of 20 mins on the biggest pressure stage. Under Barrett who I think prioritises 5th tackle repeat sets he was leading the comp as is Clearly currently. Under Dez it is or was 100% coached to run it on last which I personally think was a mistake and you can see some improvement over the last month in that respect but the team still looks unstructed and needs much more work in the off season. Whether it's not coached, Levi doing his own thing like passing to Marty on the last, DCE being in two minds and playing off the cusp too much when a kick would of been the better option or just a combination of all of the above!
Definitely agree that part of his game needs to get to a Cleary level of consistency, but for that it needs to be practiced at training and put into effect out on the field. Having a stable spine and smart hooker would also go along way to helping his game improve so he can take us to another level, which we clearly need to next year to be up the top
Under barrett manly went through a phase of kicking for touch at all costs to slow the game down. At times cherry was kicking on our own 40 and making 10 metres. It was diabolical at times. @Simonmyers11
I get the impression cherry wasnt on board 100% and at times i thought his petulence showed on field.

I made many comments about it at the time as you would expect. . Blake green was our best kicker which is no disrepect but to say chez was on fire is not exactly the case. It was about this time his wave of popularity started to dip

Prior to that origin game i made a post asking silvertails how we would feel if he took his sub standard kicking game into origin and kicked well. The rest as you have stated is history.

My conclusion has always been cherry plays best when he plays for cherry and that footy is a job as opposed to a passion. no drama , thats cool. Its his choice. I just hate that its now manlys choice

I know you dont agree with me and thats cool but i will try to dig up some of these posts later if you like, to show the relevence to your comments. Not arguing with you mate, i just remember these posts i made because ive always copped flak for rowing against the tide of public opinion.

When chez is hot, he is hot. I think those memories are too vivid
 

manly al

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
May 17, 2017
Messages
2,685
Recall quite a few weeks ago in an interview with Siro where he mentioned [ and whether of a light hearted nature or could have been with some serious intent ] that he would prefer some more repeat sets during Manly games . No doubt at that stage , the side was and for whatever reason , quite deficient at getting them Then think there was a slight improvement in a couple of following games but must still be well down on the season overall compared with some other or most other clubs . Quite an important playing measure of course [ repeat sets ] to help any side to gain an edge and with D C E having most likely either Schuster or Walker as a half 's partner next season , is going to need some serious attention for some improvement compared with this season to date .
 

Waz13

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
1,497
I think DCE to 9 is a great idea for 2 reasons and I have 1 concern.

Yes it may teach him the value of possession and give us a chance to see Metcalf at 7.
Maybe he will be pissed of and leave...saving us the money for 2 or 3 VERY GOOD players.
He may be ok with doing it but not any good at it thus leaving us stuck with him being crap at 2 critical positions.:cool:
In 40 more years as an Eagle this will never happen.
 

Simonmyers11

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
5,255
Under barrett manly went through a phase of kicking for touch at all costs to slow the game down. At times cherry was kicking on our own 40 and making 10 metres. It was diabolical at times. @Simonmyers11
I get the impression cherry wasnt on board 100% and at times i thought his petulence showed on field.

I made many comments about it at the time as you would expect. . Blake green was our best kicker which is no disrepect but to say chez was on fire is not exactly the case. It was about this time his wave of popularity started to dip

Prior to that origin game i made a post asking silvertails how we would feel if he took his sub standard kicking game into origin and kicked well. The rest as you have stated is history.

My conclusion has always been cherry plays best when he plays for cherry and that footy is a job as opposed to a passion. no drama , thats cool. Its his choice. I just hate that its now manlys choice

I know you dont agree with me and thats cool but i will try to dig up some of these posts later if you like, to show the relevence to your comments. Not arguing with you mate, i just remember these posts i made because ive always copped flak for rowing against the tide of public opinion.

When chez is hot, he is hot. I think those memories are too vivid
I guess those memories are more vivid as he is more hot that cold and still easily one of the best halves in the game. And if you don't play with passion, you have nothing! Anyway, I'm happy, as are most manly supporters he wears the 7 for the maroon and White! What a player!
 

Simonmyers11

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
5,255
Under Barret with another genuine kicker at 6 (Green) we did well. Green was number 1 and DCE number two in repeat sets end of 2017. Im not saying he is good now, very poor for his standards, but im saying he just needs to work on it and so does Dez in the off season cause he is capable.
 

Chip and Chase

True Supporter
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Member
Super Coach Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
17,952
That's critism I feel is warranted, the 5th tackle kicks over the past couple of years since Dez has coached (who I still think is an awesome coach) has gone backwards! I feel DCE gets attacked for every part of his game when in fact he has been pretty dam good for years, not poor. We know he can get repeat sets, in his MOM origin performance 2 series ago he did like 4 in the space of 20 mins on the biggest pressure stage. Under Barrett who I think prioritises 5th tackle repeat sets he was leading the comp as is Clearly currently. Under Dez it is or was 100% coached to run it on last which I personally think was a mistake and you can see some improvement over the last month in that respect but the team still looks unstructed and needs much more work in the off season. Whether it's not coached, Levi doing his own thing like passing to Marty on the last, DCE being in two minds and playing off the cusp too much when a kick would of been the better option or just a combination of all of the above!
Definitely agree that part of his game needs to get to a Cleary level of consistency, but for that it needs to be practiced at training and put into effect out on the field. Having a stable spine and smart hooker would also go along way to helping his game improve so he can take us to another level, which we clearly need to next year to be up the top
DCE has never won a MOM award in Origin.
 

jbb/james

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,058
Your right, but we all know he was robbed, they gave it to Slater as a wank fest award

Ahhh so slater gets MOM awards for qld like silvertails hand them out for cherry

Now i understand the system
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Eagle of London

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2016
Messages
1,375
Bias...interesting. Do you think there would be this "bias" against DCE if he actually did what we are paying him to do as the highest paid player in the game?

It's not "bias"...it is just passionate supporters being sick and tired of the 1.25 million dollar man not being able to guide OUR TEAM around the park, finish sets with some hope of competing and NEEDING someone else beside him that can... and everyone here has the right to bitch about him at every opportunity if they feel so inclined

Why are we paying QC money for an ambulance-chaser? If he can't do the job required on his ridiculous money, get rid of him.

Is that bitching or just pointing out the freakin' obvious?
I will make it very clear for you.
The club signed him to the deal. The club made it a life deal without a break clause. Yhe club could have had the guy for 850k but ****ed up the whole thing. The club dropped the ball.

While I agree he isnt playing like a 1.2 million dollar player at the moment the point has to be made that very few players stay at that high level their entire career. Look at the players who are paid 1+ million and tell me DCE is that much worse. Out of Ben Hunt, Milford, or whoever else id still take DCE.

The negativity round this joint is just vile. I guarantee that if next year we dont have the injuries to the spine and we get a decent no.9 back life for the club and the Form of DCE will be much different.
 

madmax

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
1,688
That's what people don't see, they just expect DCE to be perfect every week, but no player is. I do feel he can improve game management and 5th tackle kicks but he is a dam good half back playing without a 1, 6 and 9 and a team full of injuries. Cleary was pretty poor last year, but this year with API, Jarome in career best form and a team with no injuries and no weak links he is the form player in the comp. I cannot see any team winning the comp without a good spine and near full strength.
Mate the forum is full of experts who know everything about the sport yet have never played it. There are those that dislike DCE, Marty, Walker & Suli & want them gone......what’s their excuse? Our salary cap. I keep forgetting they’re all Chartered Accountants & are privy to all aspects of our cap. All 4 can play brilliant football but the haters will always find something to complain about. The replacements they crave are ‘nothings’ compared to our boys! Anyway I’m hopeful they all stay coz without them the only thing we’ll challenge for in 2021 & beyond is the spoon......
 

Simonmyers11

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
5,255
Mate the forum is full of experts who know everything about the sport yet have never played it. There are those that dislike DCE, Marty, Walker & Suli & want them gone......what’s their excuse? Our salary cap. I keep forgetting they’re all Chartered Accountants & are privy to all aspects of our cap. All 4 can play brilliant football but the haters will always find something to complain about. The replacements they crave are ‘nothings’ compared to our boys! Anyway I’m hopeful they all stay coz without them the only thing we’ll challenge for in 2021 & beyond is the spoon......
Well said.
 

40 years an eagle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2017
Messages
3,319
I will make it very clear for you.
The club signed him to the deal. The club made it a life deal without a break clause. Yhe club could have had the guy for 850k but ****ed up the whole thing. The club dropped the ball.

While I agree he isnt playing like a 1.2 million dollar player at the moment the point has to be made that very few players stay at that high level their entire career. Look at the players who are paid 1+ million and tell me DCE is that much worse. Out of Ben Hunt, Milford, or whoever else id still take DCE.

The negativity round this joint is just vile. I guarantee that if next year we dont have the injuries to the spine and we get a decent no.9 back life for the club and the Form of DCE will be much different.
Yes, the problem is the ridiculous deal he was signed to by our people. I think that's about 11 times I have said it.

No, I wouldn't want a $M half at all, I would like to have a younger guy partnering Schuster.

No DCE isn't playing like a $1.25M half (never has) so we have to stick with him and not try to offload him to help balance our monies better? Why?
 

Eagle of London

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2016
Messages
1,375
Yes, the problem is the ridiculous deal he was signed to by our people. I think that's about 11 times I have said it.

No, I wouldn't want a $M half at all, I would like to have a younger guy partnering Schuster.

No DCE isn't playing like a $1.25M half (never has) so we have to stick with him and not try to offload him to help balance our monies better? Why?
Who are you going to ofload him to? We would need to put in what 600k as a sweetheart move. I really don't want the team in the position of being down in the cap and not knowing who we will get.

Never been worth it? The GF v the ring any bells?
 

HK_Eagle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Messages
4,004
Who are you going to ofload him to? We would need to put in what 600k as a sweetheart move. I really don't want the team in the position of being down in the cap and not knowing who we will get.

Never been worth it? The GF v the ring any bells?
That's the next consideration. Does anybody want him for his current freight? If so, then yes, we could seriously consider the option. If he's as amazing as what half the people on here believe then it shouldn't be that hard to sell him for his current contract figure?

If not, then it will all depend on the difference, though I'm not keen on paying anybody anything for them to take him unless minimal.
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
6,170
DCE is easily one of the best half backs in the comp. Maybe his present salary is a little too high, but that's the Sea Eagles fault not his. No way though that as a half back he is worth any less than at least $900,000 in todays money. We couldn't get another half of that quality for less today. No way Cust or Metcalf are good enough from what I've seen. Check out the salaries of half backs and 5/8s. Keary, Cleary, Johnson, Milford, Morgan, Pearce, Taylor all on $1 million a year contracts. Mbye $9.5 million. The only money saver is perhaps Moses and he's on $800,000. Come on guys. Get real. Quality half backs cost around $1 million these days and they get the big bucks because like 5/8, full back and hooker (and note full backs and hookers dont come cheap) they are in one of the most valuable positions on the field. Would you really take a lesser half and expect to pay peanuts and then expect quality performance
 

jbb/james

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,058
DCE is easily one of the best half backs in the comp. Maybe his present salary is a little too high, but that's the Sea Eagles fault not his. No way though that as a half back he is worth any less than at least $900,000 in todays money. We couldn't get another half of that quality for less today. No way Cust or Metcalf are good enough from what I've seen. Check out the salaries of half backs and 5/8s. Keary, Cleary, Johnson, Milford, Morgan, Pearce, Taylor all on $1 million a year contracts. Mbye $9.5 million. The only money saver is perhaps Moses and he's on $800,000. Come on guys. Get real. Quality half backs cost around $1 million these days and they get the big bucks because like 5/8, full back and hooker (and note full backs and hookers dont come cheap) they are in one of the most valuable positions on the field. Would you really take a lesser half and expect to pay peanuts and then expect quality performance

My concern is the length. Job security makes people complacent. While he tries he really struggles with small things like kick positioning. Its bread and butter no 7 stuff wether your on top dollar or minimum wage

On top of that he has no inclination to run into the line to promote others. Accross field . No wuckers, but social distancing in attack is his forte. He just doesnt like being tackled , but backs up like terry lamb

If he was on a shorter contract i suggest these attribute would be enhanced. When origin selecetion is up, he ups his game . Maybe if he played for a contract we would see a player more committed to the role and improvement in the 1% plays

He is no different to a top prop that sits out wide, passes before he gets contacted no matter how many tackles and decoys he runs

I have stated numerous times he should take a pay cut. His original contract didnt suit him so he was prepared to sit it out , so its in him when it suits him. We manned up and shifted players on to accomadate contract disparity and it appears we will continue to do that through his whole career. we should never forget his views on contracts that can be broken

He is a good player but has plenty of limitations and its the salary cap allocation as opposed to what he earns that makes him a poor investment
His cap allocation is a hinderence to manly, plain and simple
Im not that concerned we couldnt replace 90% of what he brings a lot cheaper
The other 10% well, we are running 75th anyway and fainu and tom will have a far greater bearing on games if they ever return

Ita rare commodity to understand your own worth. Many people step down from high paying jobs due to pressure or a realisation they are a different cog in the machine. Its called personal growth

My guess and ive banged on about it for a few years that there is resentment amongst the forwards about how they bust there gut to watch him squander posession being an air head

When teams win, its less obvious but the blame game is in every work place and if you were a front rower , what would be you conclusion about his ROI
 

Staff online

Latest posts

2020 Ladder

Team P W D L PD Pts
1 Panthers 19 17 1 1 257 35
2 Storm 19 16 0 3 266 32
3 Roosters 19 14 0 5 282 28
4 Eels 19 14 0 5 100 28
5 Raiders 19 13 0 6 118 26
6 Knights 19 11 1 7 77 23
7 Rabbitohs 19 11 0 8 117 22
8 Sharks 19 10 0 9 10 20
9 Titans 19 8 0 11 -147 16
10 Tigers 19 7 0 12 -61 14
11 Sea Eagles 19 7 0 12 -122 14
12 Warriors 19 7 0 12 -127 14
13 Dragons 19 6 0 13 -82 12
14 Cowboys 19 4 0 15 -168 8
15 Bulldogs 19 3 0 16 -180 6
16 Broncos 19 3 0 16 -340 6
Top Bottom