Cameron
Make Manly Great Again #Hasler2019
You left out another stat where is he is leading the club. Errors 18 season to date. For a fullback that’s totally unacceptable
Is Turbo rocks and diamonds
- Thread starter maxta
- Start date
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
There are very few of us here that question Turbo's attacking skills as a fullback. However (for us old school types), fullback is a position that requires the greatest defensive thinking and an ability to cope under the highest pressure situations. This is where Turbo needs to improve before he will ever get close to the great Manly fullbacks that have come before him.
I think today's media is partly to blame (through its focus on only attacking skills) for the hype around players like Tom and the subsequent responsibility he is given without the fully matured skill set required to completely understand the role of fullback.
A gun fullback like Teddy, Ponga or flavour of the month Dufty would never make that many errors right?
I mean it is totally unacceptable....
2108 Errors by Fullback (according to Foxsports)
Moylan* - 23
Tedesco - 21
Dufty - 16
Turbo - 16
Ponga - 14
He is not the finished article, no doubt but it is ludacrious to think the overall quality and performance of our team doesnt go up dramatically with him at fullback
Im not arguing that at all, of course Tom has a lot of areas to improve on but please show me a 21 year old in the league that doesnt have areas of improvement?
I remember people wailing that Brett Stewart wasn't up to the physicality of first grade when Jamie lyon embarrassed him on debut. He went on to be one of our very best fullbacks
The issue is people are expecting him to be the end product now and have the all round game of Billy Slater....then when he doesnt live up to those unrealistic expectations they throw their toys out
BirdMan4ever
Reserve Grader
One thing that worries me is that Turbo is much like DCE, plays off the cusp of his own ability in lieu of using his brain and playing structured percentages as Snake did,.
Has anyone else noticed , he is no where to be seen when the opposition scores in the corners. ?why isnt he chasing the direction of the ball and have a last crack in defense ala slater and snake..
Has anyone else noticed , he is no where to be seen when the opposition scores in the corners. ?why isnt he chasing the direction of the ball and have a last crack in defense ala slater and snake..
Holmsey
Bencher
Got him!
Holmsey
Bencher
Yet all the other fullbacks in the league also make those errors, he isn't even the close to being worst for fullback errors. In fact even the best are ahead of him. He isn't costing us game, in fact if he doesn't play those games we wouldn't even be in a position to win them in the first place.
Cameron
Make Manly Great Again #Hasler2019
From the manly page of the nrl app see screenshot uploaded 18
Cameron
Make Manly Great Again #Hasler2019
Go and have a look he’s 3rd in the NRL behind moylan and tedsco. I wonder how many of their errors where dropped bombs. I think it’s easy to say atleast a third of tom’s are.
Holmsey
Bencher
He one bad game mate, one game against the Roosters. He's an excellent player and I can't wait for him to prove your ass wrong.
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
So... because I love a good argument (and not because I hate Tom for no reason, I actually think he is one of the most promising players in the game right now) I went deep into the past of Silvertails to see what was thought of B. Stewart in his early days (2005 and at the age of 20). It's probably worth noting the increase in posters on the site from then to now as well as the increased culture of both trolling and criticism when things go wrong, that being said it definitely made for some interesting reading. Also in 2005 I was overseas so had very limited coverage of games and therefor memory of Stewart's early playing career so please feel free to chime in if you think I have cherry picked only the positives. From the posts I read it would appear that Snake had an overall consistent season with a few errors here and there and an impressive try total and came runner up to BK in the survivor comp. Here are some select posts:
By:cheech- Mar 28, 2005 "Stewart - 7.5 This kid just gets better, scored the winning try and brave in defence. What about the pickup near the line with Slater chasing him?"
By:Fluffy- Mar 28, 2005 "Improves again. Was hovering around the rucks more today and looking for the offload. Much better involvement in attack. His defensive positional play was top class - showing Slater the line and belting the crap out of him and spilling the ball was great to watch. However what warms my heart the most is he is now starting to shout orders in defence. He may not be the general yet but Major Stewart is coming along nicely."
By:Canteen Worker- Apr 24, 2005 "Brett had a great game and scored a 100metre effort. Safe as a house under the kicks and was his usual solid self."
By:Canteen Worker- May 21, 2005 "Was very impressed with our defence tonight. At the ground, we seemed to start a little flat but got our defensive legs as the game progressed. Brett Stewart, Kylie Leuleai, Beaver and Kite were all huge."
By😀VS Matt- Jun 19, 2005 "b) Stewy was solid without being fantastic. Defused a few bombs and lurked around BK for a try and was getting a bit more involved."
By:Volley- Jul 15, 2005 "Great stuff. Been great at the back this year, his defence has been quite superb. Just wish he'd get more involved in attack."
My takeaway was this: Stewart had a relatively quiet and consistent start to his career, focusing more on his defensive duties than on attack. We had a fairly up and down season in 05 and although he made a few errors and dropped a few bombs he rarely coped the same criticism that Tom gets every other week (I concede this is partly due to the culture and volume changes).
I have no doubt that Turbo has the potential to become one of the games greatest players, but (for me), he needs to slow down and work on the simple things - specifically defense and helping the team become more organized from the back. He is clearly a confidence player and it's when things start to go wrong that the errors creep into his game.
Some more posts from the past, this one is one of my favorites:
By:sue ridgepipe- Jul 5, 2005 "06 bell seems to make more breaks than any centre in the comp.we have barely made one centre incursion all this year.i can just see stewart ranging up inside him to take that final pass ........
07 orford,bell,lyon,stewart.........please................
And remember Fluffy has no idea: "I dont see a significant advantage in Lyon over alberts considering the $ involved."
I wouldn't say we are arguing at all, in fact we seem to be in agreement that Tom is a hugely talented player that is not the complete package and needs to work on his defence.
My argument is with those who believe he doesn't represent significant value to this team at fullback, basically the pros out weigh the cons atm and the cons will only reduce as he continues to develop as a player.
In regards to your Brett Stewart examples, I was referencing comments made after Lyon palmed and injured him in his debut in 2003, I've not the time or inclination to go searching for them......but if your point was that Brett was better defensively at a young age then, yes, I don't think anyone would argue that.
Would you say Brett got better from 2005? Of Course and Tom will too
You're absolutely right there in saying that Snake was solid when he started and was only improving as the year went on but it's unfair to compare arguably the best fullback to ever come from this club to Tom. Snake was a freak and that's why he's considered one of our greatest. I only wish that Snake were still around the club to help young Turbo out with the off-the-ball work.
Stevo
First Grader
Brett Stewart was the best fullback in the NRL at age 21
MuzztheEagle
Bencher
And this is part of my point; Tom is being compared to Snake and not just on Silvertails, the media treats him like he is the next messiah for Manly and he has been given a contract well above his current value to the club because of his future potential. This is pressure that Snake never had to deal with as a player and was able to slowly and quietly develop his skills in the position as a result. This pressure cannot be good for Tom's development, he is trying to focus on too much at once and we see errors as a result. Hopefully the origin opportunity gives him a chance to get some perspective and focus on a more limited role for a couple of weeks. Then again Freddy's attack focused team could be a disaster and his confidence continues to sink.
Yeah, you can tell that the pressure is weighing down on Tom. He takes it upon himself to create something but doesn't realise that he has an entire team to work with as well. A part of Snake's charm was how he'd make a team look like world-beaters one week when they'd be in the doldrums the week before.
As for origin, I'm a little nervous to see how Tom goes there. Freddy has picked a backline to run the ball. There are now x-factors that ball play in that backline aside from Tom. While he is a great ball runner, a lot of his attacking input also comes from his playmaking abilities. He really should have been picked at fullback or centre. Playing on the wing limits him and honestly speaking, Cotric is a better winger than Tom.
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2020 Ladder
| Team | P | W | D | L | PD | Pts | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Bulldogs | 6 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 98 | 14 |
| 2 | Storm | 6 | 4 | 0 | 2 | 70 | 10 |
| 3 | Raiders | 7 | 5 | 0 | 2 | 46 | 10 |
| 4 | Warriors | 6 | 4 | 0 | 2 | -18 | 10 |
| 5 | Broncos | 7 | 4 | 0 | 3 | 54 | 8 |
| 6 | Sharks | 7 | 4 | 0 | 3 | 41 | 8 |
| 7 | Dragons | 6 | 3 | 0 | 3 | 20 | 8 |
| 8 | Rabbitohs | 7 | 4 | 0 | 3 | -36 | 8 |
| 9 | Cowboys | 6 | 3 | 0 | 3 | -42 | 8 |
| 10 | Tigers | 6 | 3 | 0 | 3 | 28 | 6 |
| 11 | Dolphins | 7 | 3 | 0 | 4 | 28 | 6 |
| 12 | Sea Eagles | 7 | 3 | 0 | 4 | 20 | 6 |
| 13 | Titans | 6 | 2 | 0 | 4 | -36 | 6 |
| 14 | Knights | 6 | 2 | 0 | 4 | -60 | 6 |
| 15 | Panthers | 7 | 2 | 0 | 5 | -10 | 4 |
| 16 | Roosters | 7 | 2 | 0 | 5 | -80 | 4 |
| 17 | Eels | 6 | 1 | 0 | 5 | -123 | 2 |
