I was wrong

[Cliffycomeback]

Yeah, I'm aware of all of it, I just used ChatGPT to summarise it in an easily digestible format for those in here with "room temperature IQ".

I suppose you're trying to claim the "context" of each of these statements excuses them, yes?

What a guy Charlie Kirk was.

Why don't you pick one statement & explain how it was justified?

Are there any Muslim ruled countries you would like to live/raise a family? Have you seen some of the hate being preached by many Muslims around the world? What do you think about the disproportionately high amount of Muslim criminal shootings around Sydney and Melbourne? Because you would have to be entirely disingenuous to not admit there is a very real problem there. Why is that? What do you think about the tens of thousands of Africans being butchered by Muslims? Do you feel as much outrage for the Christian Africans? What about the Taliban and the disgraceful way women are treated? How did ISIS become such a big thing? Then there's the terrible murders at Charlie Hebdo, because someone dared to draw a cartoon of Mohammad. The list just goes on and on.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

There is an amazing example of how broken some people are in this thread

A post is made on what appears to be consensus regarding politically motivated violence which shows it is far more attributable to the “right”.

How to deal with this if it goes against your beliefs?

What about Islam? Why is 9/11 not included? Trans people are bad or my favourite “it does not include property damage” (which is a different discussion l)

To be fair, Islam continues to inflict a lot of bloodshed in the name of Allah.

 

[lsz]

There is no consensus regarding politically motivated violence, which was the point I was making about violence being much broader than murders.

The discussion on Islam was relevant as the data included Islamic terrorist attacks. The omission of 9/11 deaths from those statistics would be considered a rather glaring omission by most people.

Not sure who said trans people are bad.

This study was being quoted as proof that the assertion by conservatives that leftist violence is on the rise was false. If we agree that violence includes rioting, injuries, property damage etc, then that is far from proven.

In so far as the research itself, even the author himself acknowledged that categorisations were far from objective and different ideological motivations could be assigned to attackers. The only conclusion they were willing to make is that total politically motivated murders were relatively small.

Finally, this is one study. I’m not sure how a consensus can be agreed based on a single study, particularly one with apparent self-highlighted flaws that specifically warn against just that type of over-interpretation.

Nobody is broken, just unwilling to jump to conclusions unquestioningly.

Did you not read when I gave several other examples? Perhaps you did not have the time

 

[manlyfan76]

There was recent reports of church groups flooding liberal party factions esp Melbourne to take over the party and government.

Kirk was a Christian Nationalists who believes women should abide to the "biblical submission" and not be free or equal.

Interesting points from professor Bodey:



For the past several years, Matthew Boedy, an English professor at the University of North Georgia, has been working on a book about the Christian nationalist aims of the conservative powerhouse group Turning Point USA and its late founder, right-wing influencer Charlie Kirk. In his forthcoming book, The Seven Mountains Mandate: Exposing the Dangerous Plan to Christianize America and Destroy Democracy, Boedy argues that Kirk modeled Turning Point on the seven-mountain mandate, the idea that Christians are called to take over each of seven spheres of influence—from government to education to media and beyond.

Popularized by Texas business strategist and evangelical leader Lance Wallnau, the idea of the seven-mountain mandate has become especially influential in the New Apostolic Reformation, a loose network of charismatic, Christian nationalist churches that follow prophets and apostles who claim to receive divine messages from God. NAR leaders and ideas have become deeply entwined with American politics, both on the national and local levels. As I wrote last year:

They believe that Christians are called to wage a spiritual battle for control of the United States. In the vanguard of an ascendant Christian nationalist movement, they are seeking an explicitly Christian command of public schools, social policy, and all levels of the government, including the courts. Some scholars claim NAR is the fastest-growing spiritual movement in the United States. Evangelical writer C. Peter Wagner described it as the most significant shake-up in Protestantism since the Reformation. Its laser focus on starting a spiritual war to Christianize America has led the Southern Poverty Law Center to call NAR “the greatest threat to US democracy that you have never heard of.”

Article: His book on Charlie Kirk was about to come out. Then his subject was murdered.

 

[manlyfan76]

 

[Brookie1973]

Did you not read when I gave several other examples? Perhaps you did not have the time

Several other examples of what? Not sure what you mean. I thought I responded to every point you made in your post, but clearly I am not listening.

 

[Brookie1973]

Perhaps someone could explain these survey results, given the consensus view that left wing political violence is not on the rise.

Polls Show Rising Number of Americans Justify Political Violence

www.realclearpolling.com

 

[manly al]

Are there any Muslim ruled countries you would like to live/raise a family? Have you seen some of the hate being preached by many Muslims around the world? What do you think about the disproportionately high amount of Muslim criminal shootings around Sydney and Melbourne? Because you would have to be entirely disingenuous to not admit there is a very real problem there. Why is that? What do you think about the tens of thousands of Africans being butchered by Muslims? Do you feel as much outrage for the Christian Africans? What about the Taliban and the disgraceful way women are treated? How did ISIS become such a big thing? Then there's the terrible murders at Charlie Hebdo, because someone dared to draw a cartoon of Mohammad. The list just goes on and on.

ISIS was largely allowed to form because of the power vacuum in Iraq caused by that hopelessly ill judged U S led invasion in early 2000 "s
Taliban predominately or gradually were able to have so much influence in Afghanistan and the Pakistan west mountain country with huge amounts of arms support mainly from the U S from about the early 80 "s or so
A good part of the refugee problem in Europe and the U K was the U S led overthrow of the Gaddafi regime in Libya which threw that country into total chaos once the tribal order of things there was thrown into disarray . Could go on and on including the western interference and exploitation of Iran back in the day
Common theme , concurrent U S governments ,and regularly also hand in hand with big U S and other western multi nationals interfering and causing total disorder purely for highly dubious political and vested greed intent and for whatever reason , in a high proportion of Muslim countries
One redeeming or hopeful consequence of Trump in power now may be to break the pattern or cycle and stop interfering or causing overseas conflicts or pull back where practical
Maga is here to stay for quite a while yet as that unhelpful level of a type of counter culture [ i guess largely associated with some semblance of a left outlook ] , looks also entrenched for whatever time in the U S , so can just hope that the more moderate forces or steadying influences in the U S can get some necessary traction and significant society influence there A S A P or without too much delay

 

[47MVEagle]

Do you believe fundamental Muslims want to live side by side with non Muslims in peace? What do you think of Muslims in Australia celebrating the October 7th attacks?

I take it you've chosen statement number 8 to discuss?

8. Views on Gaza, Israel, Muslims

• He defended Israel’s war on Gaza and rejected allegations that Israel was starving Gazans, calling such imagery “propaganda,” or “optical warfare.” Firstpost+1
• He has said: “Muslims that run Hamas are not going to stop until they believe they can kill every single Jew on the face of the earth. That is their goal.” Firstpost

 

[47MVEagle]

Are there any Muslim ruled countries you would like to live/raise a family? Have you seen some of the hate being preached by many Muslims around the world? What do you think about the disproportionately high amount of Muslim criminal shootings around Sydney and Melbourne? Because you would have to be entirely disingenuous to not admit there is a very real problem there. Why is that? What do you think about the tens of thousands of Africans being butchered by Muslims? Do you feel as much outrage for the Christian Africans? What about the Taliban and the disgraceful way women are treated? How did ISIS become such a big thing? Then there's the terrible murders at Charlie Hebdo, because someone dared to draw a cartoon of Mohammad. The list just goes on and on.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, other than going on a rant about Muslims & "whatabouting".

None of what you said changes what Charlie Kirk said.

I was responding to your post claiming Charlie Kirk was a great man who had done so many great things for the world with evidence of many not so great things he said, showing he wasn't such a great man.

His murder is now being used by MAGA as a reason to shut down free speech & will no doubt continue to remove further rights of the American people.

He was not a great man & does not deserve the idolisation you have displayed.

My thoughts are that religion should have absolutely nothing to do with how a country is governed.

There are crackpots & fundamentalists in every religion, & all of the trouble in the world can be attributed to religious hatred.

 

[C_Eagle31]

Honestly, I never liked the highly edited approach he used when debating people (in terms of the videos that were presented). I often found his style to be in less than good faith. That said, at least he went out there and had a crack.


As for those celebrating or enjoying his death, that is beyond tasteless. As I mentioned when posting in the Trump thread, I’m no fan, but I would never wish for him—or anyone—to be killed.


The U.S. is at another tipping point. It is incredibly sad that, even while a manhunt is still underway, assumptions are already being made about who the attacker was from a left or right perspective. On top of that, the President has chosen rhetoric that inflames rather than calms the situation.


If there were genuine care, he would have acknowledged Melissa Hortman and her husband, who were murdered. Instead, what could have been a moment for meaningful action has once again been reduced to political point-scoring, creating even more danger.

One pundit put is best. Political assassinations are like cancer that will spread unless there is some true leadership...something I think that is lacking in the US now.

I saw a comment the other day which I think most people are struggling to put into words correctly; "I don't agree with what happened to Charlie Kirk, but Charlie Kirk agreed with what happened to Charlie Kirk".

And it's a damning indictment that there is so much uproar about Kirk's death, while as you said the Hortman's, Paul Pelosi, and Mike Pence were targeted by the far-right, and that's swept under the carpet.

The US needs to clean under that carpet at one point, because now it's just looking dodgy and becoming a tripping hazard.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

I take it you've chosen statement number 8 to discuss?

8. Views on Gaza, Israel, Muslims

• He defended Israel’s war on Gaza and rejected allegations that Israel was starving Gazans, calling such imagery “propaganda,” or “optical warfare.” Firstpost+1
• He has said: “Muslims that run Hamas are not going to stop until they believe they can kill every single Jew on the face of the earth. That is their goal.” Firstpost

You also decry Kirk's views on Trans and gay people. Below are some of the countries where being gay is considered a crime. Where being gay can be a death penalty. How anyone finds a way to defend Islam while bleating about the rights of the LGBTQ community is beyond me. Christians might not agree with the LGBTQ movement but they aren't killing gays or outlawing their existence en masse.


Cast your eyes over this list.

Afghanistan​

Bangladesh​

Brunei​

Indonesia​

Iran​

Iraq​

Kuwait​

Lebanon​

Malaysia​

Maldives​

Myanmar​

Oman​

Pakistan​

Palestine​

Qatar​

Saudi Arabia​

Sri Lanka​

Syria​

Turkmenistan​

United Arab Emirates​

Uzbekistan​

Yemen​

Algeria​

Chad​

Comoros​

Egypt​

Eritrea​

Ethiopia​

Liberia​

Libya​

Morocco​

Nigeria​

Somalia​

South Sudan​

Sudan​

Tanzania​

Tunisia​

 

[47MVEagle]

You also decry Kirk's views on Trans and gay people. Below are some of the countries where being gay is considered a crime. Where being gay can be a death penalty. How anyone finds a way to defend Islam while bleating about the rights of the LGBTQ community is beyond me. Christians might not agree with the LGBTQ movement but they aren't killing gays or outlawing their existence en masse.


Cast your eyes over this list.

Afghanistan​

Bangladesh​

Brunei​

Indonesia​

Iran​

Iraq​

Kuwait​

Lebanon​

Malaysia​

Maldives​

Myanmar​

Oman​

Pakistan​

Palestine​

Qatar​

Saudi Arabia​

Sri Lanka​

Syria​

Turkmenistan​

United Arab Emirates​

Uzbekistan​

Yemen​

Algeria​

Chad​

Comoros​

Egypt​

Eritrea​

Ethiopia​

Liberia​

Libya​

Morocco​

Nigeria​

Somalia​

South Sudan​

Sudan​

Tanzania​

Tunisia​

What does any of that have to do with me?

 

[Cliffycomeback]

What does any of that have to with me?

I'm merely pointing out that using Islam in any passage of writing that highlights Charlie Kirk's views on trans people is entirely ridiculous. Many parts of the Islamic world kill gays. Charlie Kirk never killed anyone. A great deception is being perpetuated on unthinking Australians who watch the LGBTQ community and the Muslim brotherhood marching together to free Palestine. Do you really believe Muslims would be happy to welcome gays and trans people into their mosques? It is a con which is akin to the Klu Klux Clan marching in a Black Lives Matter protest.

And yet, here we are. Aussies decrying unjust words spoken by a guy towards gays. Those same people then defending Islam who kill gays. Madness.

 

[47MVEagle]

I'm merely pointing out that using Islam in any passage of writing that highlights Charlie Kirk's views on trans people is entirely ridiculous. Many parts of the Islamic world kill gays. Charlie Kirk never killed anyone. A great deception is being perpetuated on unthinking Australians who watch the LGBTQ community and the Muslim brotherhood marching together to free Palestine. Do you really believe Muslims would be happy to welcome gays and trans people into their mosques? It is a con which is akin to the Klu Klux Clan marching in a Black Lives Matter protest.

And yet, here we are. Aussies decrying unjust words spoken by a guy towards gays. Those same people then defending Islam who kill gays. Madness.

You're very rapidly revealing yourself to be an extremely bigoted person, anti-Muslim, anti-LGBTQ...are you gonna go for the full house & reveal yourself to be racist too?

Nothing you've said excuses what Charlie Kirk said.