How things can change so dramatically so quickly.

[Kevinward777]

I just find it hard to believe everyone is having a love fest with mostly the same players that almost won our first wooden spoon last year and we're well on the way to this year's spoon if not for Barrett and his useless dogs.

This is the same team.. people want to keep arguing and carrying on that tom isn't the be all and end all of this team but he well and truely is and it's clearly backed up by the last year and a bit worth of patheticness weve dished up .

We were literally in a race with the dogs and Broncos for the spoon a month ago, we had a points average of 9 pts a game and a f/a of almost -200... Tom is the reason we now score 30 plus every game... Tom is the reason we have a positive f/a now . The rock hard facts have been Infront of us for well over a season now, no tom = no win... Not just no win, no tom = 40 point floggings.. these are absolute FACTS as we have lived thru it .
I just don't see why noone sees it now we are winning.. 6 weeks ago 90% of this forum wanted the same coach and players that they are gushing over now fired ... Another fact

Go back and watch the 2019 season again.

A small contingent of posters on here maintained that last season was the result of a number of factors. Namely, Covid, no NSW Cup, a sudden rule change that didn't suit our massive forward pack, and a crippling injury toll.

Those same posters were largely derided and scoffed at.

 

[Bearfax]

Many factors why the team wasnt functioning. One of the obvious ones was self belief. A second one was now having a couple of players who can make breaks into tries and setting up tries. Once the team is on a roll with a few good tries, the confidence lifts. Add to that getting players in their right positions where they are most effective.

Turbo has become master of setting up the play, with DCE's guidance and now with Schuster's unpredictability. Doesnt take much to move from a team being flogged to a team doing the flogging.

I remember during my Rugby Union days (and I was never top grade) you could be in a team that's copping a pasting. Suddenly someone lifts their game and makes a try and suddenly the team lifts. But you have to have someone who can take the side forward and inspire the rest. DCE couldnt do it alone in the first three games. He needed Turbo to take the pressure off him. And now Schuster is adding to that relief for DCE. The forwards take confidence that the backs are doing their job and increase their intensity. Its all self belief

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I think pretty much every fan of the game is in agreement that Turbo is on a different level right now and the most influential player in the game. The effect he has on Manly and our win-loss ratio is astonishing.
The only point I disagree with in the OP is that the rest of the players are crap and will be flogged next time Tom is missing.

 

[court83]

Ok,

How about you remind me whether there were any unusual circumstances operating last year?
Or whether anything happened in the off season that could affect squad morale?

And rounds 1 thru 5 this year? What's our excuse for that? Losing by record margins week in, week out until we clawed a win in a dour game against an unimpressive warriors team

 

[court83]

The sample space of games this year may well suggest that @court83 has a point.

We were getting flogged without Tommy, bottom of ladder stuff. We won one cripple battle against the Warriors.....just. Then Tommy returns and we look like a top 8 team. He makes such a difference to this side. Look at his influence on our win loss ratio with and without him over his career since moving to fullback. He is key

It's a pretty clear argument..
I think people just don't like hearing the truth when it's not all glow worms and neon happiness.
I'm not saying we're a horrible team, if Tom stays fit were top 8 for sure.. but if tom goes down next week and misses 6 weeks, I bet my left one we would immediately fall out of the 8 and go back to thrashings pretty quickly

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

but if tom goes down next week and misses 6 weeks, I bet my left one we would immediately fall out of the 8 and go back to thrashings pretty quickly

Hopefully we will never find out !!

 

[Eagles4Life]

The sample space of games this year may well suggest that @court83 has a point.

We were getting flogged without Tommy, bottom of ladder stuff. We won one cripple battle against the Warriors.....just. Then Tommy returns and we look like a top 8 team. He makes such a difference to this side. Look at his influence on our win loss ratio with and without him over his career since moving to fullback. He is key

Stats never lie BUT Tom is working his magic off the back of our forwards playing so well. As good as he is, he cant do what he is doing now, without the platform they are setting. I think Turbo is amazing, but lets also give credit where credit is due. Congratulations to the pack for reviving that tough, collective forward mentality that has always inspired our best Manly teams, and our premiership winning teams. I feel that we have a potentially premiership winning pack, with the depth to take us all the way this year.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Totally he makes a massive difference. But we had a narrow win over Warriors without him. A few weeks later we had a narrow win over them with him.

100% - and if he doesn't play we lose that second game no questions. What I was trying to point out was that our only win without him was a bludger of a game and probably the Warriors worst effort all season and we only just got there.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Stats never lie BUT Tom is working his magic off the back of our forwards playing so well. As good as he is, he cant do what he is doing now, without the platform they are setting. I think Turbo is amazing, but lets also give credit where credit is due. Congratulations to the pack for reviving that tough, collective forward mentality that has always inspired our best Manly teams, and our premiership winning teams. I feel that we have a potentially premiership winning pack, with the depth to take us all the way this year.

I'd argue that the forwards were never the issue. I thought our pack was holding their own from Round 1, they may not have been dominating but they certainly weren't being dominated either. In my opinion we just had no attack those first 5 rounds, it was embarrassingly poor and results showed that.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

People generally only remember what supports their previous arguments. Things have changed dramatically since our run of losses throughout the end of season 2020 and the first 4 rounds in 2021. Curiously some those reasons are minimized or disregarded. Selections changed through necessity (injuries) initially with young talent being given a shot over players that were constantly being selected notwithstanding their underwhelming performances. Then the the return of the best player in the game today Turbo who does almost as much off the ball as he does on the ball. The coach started rewarding the youngsters by continuing to select them. Unlike last year when Haumole Olakau'atu played a great game and didn't selected again. The team morale as a whole has lifted significantly and I expect that may well be related to the fact that all of the squad feel valued and expect they will be rewarded with selection when their performance warrants it. Of course the foundation that underpins all of this is a experienced and cool headed coach. So I don't believe that our success is purely based on the coach's genius or wisdom but rather his ability to embrace change, adapt and bring out the best in his squad. Well done Des Hasler.

 

[Cliffymagic]

We got 10 weeks I think before we play the storm. Our next major opposition.
Let's hope we can maintain our form during this easier run.
I expect we might be a bit emotional exhausted this week but luckily playing a crap team in the Knights.

 

[Kevinward777]

It's a pretty clear argument..
I think people just don't like hearing the truth when it's not all glow worms and neon happiness.
I'm not saying we're a horrible team, if Tom stays fit were top 8 for sure.. but if tom goes down next week and misses 6 weeks, I bet my left one we would immediately fall out of the 8 and go back to thrashings pretty quickly

The validity of your argument will be tested during SOO. There will be no Turbo - no Jake - no DCE.

On Sunday, the boys destroyed the notion that they couldn't beat a top 4 side. Hopefully, SOO will put an end to the we can't win without Turbo rhetoric as well.

 

[court83]

The validity of your argument will be tested during SOO. There will be no Turbo - no Jake - no DCE.

On Sunday, the boys destroyed the notion that they couldn't beat a top 4 side. Hopefully, SOO will put an end to the we can't win without Turbo rhetoric as well.

Don't think Soo is a fair comparison.. I'm saying we don't win without tom, Soo we will be playing without tom, DCE or Jake...
No Foran, who knows with cust, so the chances are we atleast play game 1 with a cobbled together team the dogs could prolly smash..

I think a better chance to test it will be when we inevitably rest tom... With the rest available that will be a telling game

Edit. Having said that, we lost what, 20 of our last 21 without him, pretty sure that shows it's now just rhetoric

 

[Woodsie]

Don't think Soo is a fair comparison.. I'm saying we don't win without tom, Soo we will be playing without tom, DCE or Jake...
No Foran, who knows with cust, so the chances are we atleast play game 1 with a cobbled together team the dogs could prolly smash..

I think a better chance to test it will be when we inevitably rest tom... With the rest available that will be a telling game

Edit. Having said that, we lost what, 20 of our last 21 without him, pretty sure that shows it's now just rhetoric

Your playing chess with chickens .... we have a win % without Turbo of about 19% and a win % with him of over 80% ... yet you still have people telling you it is rhetoric or just a coincidence ...

Yes, there may be other contributing factors, there always is .... but none even close to being as significant ...

 

[SeaEagle21]

Tom is a major reason for the turnaround but i also think that when Des signed the contract extention and it was made public that the 3rd yr option was performance based that the players saw he backed them to get into the finals and responded to that faith shown by Des in his players

We'll also see during the Origin period how the team goes. Confidence plays a big part and we had none at the start of the season but Tom brought it for the team. Self belief might be back for all the players and hopefully we are competitive during Tom's absence.

 

[Kevinward777]

Tom is a major reason for the turnaround but i also think that when Des signed the contract extention and it was made public that the 3rd yr option was performance based that the players saw he backed them to get into the finals and responded to that faith shown by Des in his players

We'll also see during the Origin period how the team goes. Confidence plays a big part and we had none at the start of the season but Tom brought it for the team. Self belief might be back for all the players and hopefully we are competitive during Tom's absence.

The chessboard has been set in place and the players are in position.
So far, we have had
-The Trent Barrett is a dud chessboard.
-The Hasler can't coach chessboard.
-The Jason Saab can't catch chessboard.
-The Karl Lawton dud signing chessboard.
-The Croker isn't a nine chessboard.
-The Reuben Garrick needs to go chessboard.
-The injection of Hook chessboard.
-The our forwards are teddy bears chessboard.
-The Marty Tapau is not a team player chessboard.

I will allow someone smarter than myself determine these results.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

The chess rationale is curious. Many moving pieces here unlike chess. Everybody has improved though except for Barrett.

 

[KaZa]

Tom is half the turn around for sure. He is a game breaker. Look at his tries and assists in 6 games? Not only that but his line break assists.. if there was a stat for the 2nd last pass before the try.. he would lead that too. Add to that his defence and organisation has made a huge difference. Look at what he said to Paseka. Ridiculous. You cant argue that.

However. You cant also argue.. Harper coming in has made our defence a lot better out wide. Thats where we were struggling. Shuster going to second row.. not just his attack but his defence is never mentioned. Great defender. Keppie stepping up.

Sipley and Guacamole have given us some great go forward and are hitting hard in defence. I feel like Taupau has lifted as he has people helping him now.

Look at our round 1 team. Tom aside.. its still very different.

Harper - Suli
Guacamole - jetski
Sipley - Boyle
Shuster - Siro
Paseka was on the bench. Hes our forward leader. The way hes coming out hitting now is awesome to see.

Our bench round 1 was - Funa Boyle Davey and Paseka. No impact.

Side is coming along. Add Aloiai back and hopefully if Fainu is found not guilty. We will shape up really nicely come finals time.

 

[mickqld]

I wonder how many of the 5 wins we would have gotten without Tom. I feel maybe 1.

 

[court83]

Your playing chess with chickens .... we have a win % without Turbo of about 19% and a win % with him of over 80% ... yet you still have people telling you it is rhetoric or just a coincidence ...

Yes, there may be other contributing factors, there always is .... but none even close to being as significant ...

At least someone gets it lol
I said last year in the middle of our slump, I'm glad we're losing.. without tom, last season really exposed our dead wood.. toms a band aid, he wins us matches, but take him out, we still have the same Deadwood players that don't put in unless toms around to do the hard work..
Few wins and people love to gloss over this FACT, yet the same ppl will scream and carry on once tom goes down and the 40 plus point hidings resume