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Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by fLIP, Jul 12, 2007.

  1. fLIP

    fLIP UFO Hunter

    +1,324 /37
    There has been a lot of talk lately about video refs should/shouldn't be able to rule of blatant forward passes.

    The same goes for knock-ons you see every week in the game. If you can't tell a forward pass because of camera angles than surely the same rule applies to everything bar put downs/ obstructions ect.

    It got me thinking. Does anyone here know much about Hawk-eye? It works in tennis, its been used in cricket for many years and it's about to be used in the Premier league to tell whether the ball has passed into the goal or not.

    I was wondering if anyone knew enough about it to tell whether there has been a forward pass/ knock on and to what degree? It seems kind of technical i know but most here have spats after being on the end of a bad call and I gotta say benefit of the doubt seems to be going to the team the video ref likes the most.

    Could Hawk-eye be leagues answer for the video ref shambles?
  2. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

    +3,866 /65
    I don't profess to be an expert, but it has been shwon up many times in cricket, which would be our best comparison, so would probably have to say no

    It will work fine in the PL and Tennis because it is in a stationery position judging a line, so would be a lot easier to setup i guess
  3. Jatz Crackers

    Jatz Crackers Moderator Staff Member

    +1,470 /8
    Can you imagine the carry on by the current crop of commentators. I can just hear the endless over excited trumpetings now :blah:
  4. DVS Matt

    DVS Matt Well-Known Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

    +29 /0
    I want to know whether we can just look at the motion of the hands. That way we don’t have to track the ball. If the motion of the hands goes towards the opposition goal line even by the slightest margin then it is a forward pass regardless of whether the ball floats back or visa versa.

    Probably sounds easier than it is/
  5. SilentBob

    SilentBob Well-Known Member

    +4 /0
    Just use common sense, if it is blatantly forward, then call it forward, for the rest leave as is.

    I would like to see posts put on the 20 for the 40/20's so we don't have these touchies having a foot either side of the line.
  6. DSM5

    DSM5 Well-Known Member

    +516 /0
    I was just watching the tigers panthers game where the try to Todd Payton was given. There was a certain forward pass in the movement, both commentators saw it and commented. . Where it is obvious I can't see why the video ref can't have a whisper to the ref. Why not?
  7. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

    +3,866 /65
    They discussed that one on the Sunday Roast DSM

    Harrigan was in the box, and said that he was sitting there praying there was something in the rest of the movement that was wrong because he hated having to award that try
  8. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member

    +215 /5
    If anyone saw the Wimbledon Mens final you would have to agree there are issues with Hawkeye. Federer certainly thought so and there was one bad call in particular. I am not sure it is right in cricket either.

    I remember a Rugby refs course where we dealt with this matter. Try it yourself: Go and run flat out in a field, pass the ball behind you on a line and it still bounces ahead of the line. The rule is that it is passed with the hands going behind, not where the ball ends up. A lot of what is called forward is not!!!
  9. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

    +5,615 /203
    did the ball ever overtake you though? because those are the ones that **** me.

    hawkeye needs a minimum of three cameras on the ball to triangulate its position in the same way a gps works. Given the number of players in the vincinity of the ball i doubt you would get enough good readings for it to be consistent enough to be allowed into the rules.
  10. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

    +8,573 /80
    For a start in PL they are putting a chip in the ball so that sensors can pick it up when it goes across the goal line, so not really hawkeye technology as such.

    Hawkeye needs an uninterrupted line of sight. No problems in cricket if you set up high above bowlers arm. No problem for service line in tennis for calling faults on serve. Big problem for league when you have 27 bodies in motion.

    Even if you could overcome the line of sight it'd never work for forward passes, it's not what it's designed for. "Forward" in league is relative to the passer not relative to a fixed object, such as the ground.

    The only way around it would be to have cameras set up perpindicular to the sideline at every 5 metres so you can get an accurate side on shot to judge on without the current "camera angle" problems. Too expensive a proposition for not much of an outcome.

    If the touchies were doing their job than at lot more of these would get pulled up.

    As far as knock ons go, that just comes down to the stupidity of the ref half the time. It's virtually touch footy rules these days where if the ball hits the deck its a knock on. Some of these refs need to revisit their Year 12 physics, as they are regularly rewriting Netwons Laws of Motion. The ball has to be propelled towards the opponents goal line to be a knock on.

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